Love Your Enemy- David and Abner: 2 Samuel 3:31-39

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, everybody, this is gonna be a good one. It is everyone that we film every time we say hi, good morning. It's always going to be a good one. It is. It's going to be a good one today. Well today, what's your name? But what's my name? What's your name? I'm Chris. Yeah, we are the Bible Guys. So we're going to launch right into a segment that we don't do very often. Actually, no, we're barely qualified for this one. Yes, but it's called stump the pastor the right, And so we're barely qualified because most of the time, not always, but most of the time when it passed. When when it's a stump the pastor question, the answer sometimes is like we don't know, right, because that's why there's debate, yeah, for the last two thousand years about certain questions. So this is a very common question. This one is less of that we don't know. Yes, it's less of that. That's why I said sometimes yes, right. So Anna g wrote Anna and wrote in this and here's what it is. If Jesus is the only way to salvation. What happens to those who have never heard of him? I think that's a good question. The doll you want to give a shot? Yeah, yeah, so. One, Anna, thank you for asking that question. I think it's it's an not the most important question in the world, but a very important question. And so here's the premise. Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation. As Anna rightly states, Jesus says in John fourteen six, I am the Way, the Truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. And he really lays it down right there, He lays down the autlet. There he draws a line in the sand right there, Oh, for sure, right. And C. S. Lewis is famous for talking about either he's a liar, a lunatic, or a lord. There right, he doesn't leave any anything to doubt either either he is who he is or he's not right. Right, And it's too sort of combat the people who say, oh, he was just nothing more than a good moral teacher, that's right. And C. S. Lewis says, you cannot say that, right because it's just a good guy. Right, because of the things that he claimed right. So if what he said was false, he's a lunatic. If what he said was true, he's lord, right, or he's a really bad liar, which makes him not a good multituse. Right. There are a lot of people in secular society who would view Jesus like they would view Confucius. He said some really good things, right, Maybe could apply some of those things to our life, right, Right. It doesn't really matter what his life was like or who he really was. It doesn't even matter if he actually said the things he said. They're good words. You should turn the other cheek, and you should treat people the way you want to be treated, right, And that's how people would view there. In some faiths believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not they deny his dealy. So Jesus did not give us permission. On multiple occasions he says things like this, there's no way to the Father except through me, and so Christians would say that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus. So then the main question, quite honestly, Anna, is what have you done with Jesus? That would be the first question. So have you responded to the fact that Jesus paid the price for your sins and my sins. That God himself became a man in the person of Jesus and paid the price that you and I could not afford to pay. And that salvation is by grace. Through faith you accept Christ as your personal savior, he forgives your sins and he gives you eternal life John Ty sixteen. Because this question could have been asked by somebody who's a Christian who wonders, but I could also be asked by a person who is wondering about christian. So the first question is that what have you responded to Jesus. But at the root of this question, I think it's a beautiful Most of the time, I think the behind a question like this is very beautiful. Concerned for the people who've never heard yes. First of all, that's why Jesus told every single one of his followers, I want you, not somebody else. I want you to go everywhere and tell everyone. It's one of the reasons why you and I work with organizations that are trying to get a church in every village everywhere. Right. We work with the Timothy Initiative other organizations because we want to get the Gospel to every group of people possible. Every specifically focusing on unreached people groups. That's correct, And so Jesus gave the command to every Christian go and tell everybody. And quite honestly, for forty three percent of the planet doesn't have access to another Christian, they don't even know another Christian. Ninety three percent of the planet can get a Coca Cola today. So my friend David Noams says, often in one hundred and fifty years, Coca Cola did, for the love of money what Christians have not done in two thousand years for the love of God. Right, that's really powerful. Now nobody's killing you for bringing a coke into the village, So there's that, right. But still we've had a long time to work at this. But what's happened is the church has gotten distracted and we've become convinced for over a thousand years that the clergy is supposed to take the gospel and that the people aren't. And so that'd be part of it. So I think you have a beautiful heart asking what happens to people, I haven't heard one. We got to go tell them, We've got to leverage our resources. We've got to use our money. We've got to go and tell them ourselves, we've got to tell everybody. But then the root of this. Sometimes there's a temptation to say, how dare God right? Yeah? Setting up a system that doesn't seem like it's. Fair, right, right. And so here's a couple of things. Here's what I know. God will do the right thing because God is good. God is completely good. He's not somewhat good, and he's not just good to some people. Well, God is good and God will do the right thing. The second thing that I came to a conclusion because I struggled with this question for a long time. The second conclusion I came to is my morality or sense of morality is not superior to God's right. Right, Well, Isaiah says, my ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts a higher than your thoughts. Right, And so I know that God is completely good, that God will only do the right thing, and that my morality is not higher than his morality. So in the meantime, he's given me a mission, and he's given you a mission. And we've got to go tell everybody everywhere. And there's nothing more important in the world than us knowing Jesus than us bringing our friends and family to Jesus and then us going and getting everybody else that's not yet know Jesus. Right, Is that a sufficient answer to you? Uh? Honestly, I don't think. I don't think you answered this specific hypothetical. I think what you did was say, we trust God. Yes, that's what you said. But like the hypothetical of somebody who's on an island, for instance, and then let's just say, and it probably has been true where somebody is on an island and they didn't hear the gospel and they die, what happens to them? And what I thought I heard you say was, Hey, God's going to do the right thing, which means you're assuming that He's not going to hold them accountable and pay the price for rejecting God like others. No, I didn't say that. Well, I know, but it's sort of in the assumption of saying because there are people are. Hearing, yeah, I think that the question is trying to determine their final destination, and God will determine their final destination, so my opinion about it doesn't matter. Okay, So then it's a I don't know, Well, I. Think theologically, there are there are theologians all across the board as to what the answer is on that. At first, I know what my opinion is, Yes, right, I believe that people who die without Christ going hell. That's what I believe. So if that's what you're going, But it doesn't matter what I believe about it. What I know is that God will do the right thing because I know the character of God. Here's what I know. There are no Christian theologians that question whether or not God is good, right, there are no Christian theologians that question whether or not God does the right thing. And there's no Christian theologians that question whether or not humans morality is higher than God's morality. But there are Christian theologians who question what happens to the person who dies without ever hearing the Gospel? Right? Right? And So I'll say I think that there's a little bit of a I'm content to go. I know what I believe, but I'm willing to leave it up to God, right right. Yeah, So I'll attempt to also give it a quick shot. I know we don't have much more time here on this, but you know that when the Bible talks about how God will draw people to himself through his own creation. Right. So, and the funny thing is is we all know that Christianity is an event that is grounded in history, which is very different than sitting on a desert island, for instance, and looking up at the clouds and the sun and you know, drawing a conclusion that there must be a creator, right like, we could do that through nature. We can we can be drawn to the fact that there is a gain. Native peoples all around the world with no outside access usually only have two religions. They either worship the creator of everything that exists, creation or they worship the creation. Hey, we worship those rocks, those bears, those yess. Or the sun or whatever. And but Christianity is an event, and an event is grounded in history. And the only way for an event to be shared or to be to be known is for it to be shared. So so I'm going to say the same thing that you said, only maybe more specifically to the hypothetical. I believe that if there have been, which I know there have been people who have you know, grown up on some remote islands somewhere, have never heard the gospel, lived a life and then died. I believe that is true that that person has existed. I believe what the Bible does say that a person could be drawn to him through creation, and they definitely you know, didn't get the chance to hear the event of Christianity grounded in history. So I'd have to believe that God holds them accountable for the knowledge that they have. So I and it's that goodness part that you're talking about. Yeah, that's a good point that He's going to hold them accountable for what they for because even the book Roman says that creation leaves them without an excuse. Yes, right, but if. Nobody ever told them about Jesus, they would never even know the name of Jesus. Right, And a person who rejects Jesus is different than a person who lives their entire life and never had the chance to understand fully about God's love through Jesus. So I think that God's goodness will hold us accountable for the knowledge that we have. And you know, even when Jesus left, if it were if it were such an issue, you know, like oh no, you know, if they don't hear, they're all going to go, They're all gonna you know, they're all gonna just waste away and burn for no reason at all, you know, without having ever learned or heard about God's love for them through Jesus. I then Jesus wouldn't have set up the system that he set up. And everything you said at the beginning, everything you said, is absolutely true. It's the reason why he gave us the mission. It's the great commission, right, we were supposed to be on mission to tell people about God's love. And in Jesus does claim he's the only way to God through him. And I always say when we talk about Christianity that Christianity is the only fair religion, although people may think opposite, they think, oh, it's the only unfair, narrow minded religion because it's only through Jesus. And I always say, no, no, no, because only in Christianity everyone is invited to get to Heaven. Everyone gets in the exact same way, which is not true for other religions. And then everyone can meet the requirements and so and that is, you know, that is God's system. So so to be clear, both of us are saying, we believe somebody dies without Christ, they spend eternity apart from Christ. I believe, right, I believe if they reject the knowledge of it, yes. So then. That's why he gave us the mission. So then we kind of step back from the legalism of that statement and say, we know God will do the right thing, and we acknowledge the fact that there are differences among theologians, and and people on both sides will call each other heretics along along these lines, right, and so we're waiting into an issue. But here's what I know. God loves everybody. He wants everybody to come to repentance and nobody to perish, which is so the way to not perish is to come to repentance. So it's our goal and our mission. There's nothing more important in life than to get to bring people to Jesus. And it's the greatest reward. So thank you so much, Anna for asking that question. And this is the longest we've ever taken to answer a question, I. Think, so and uh. And and by the way, if you're wondering why Jesus hasn't come back again, he says, the reason why is because he's not willing that any should perish. Yeah, so he cherries for that reason. Okay, let me, let me Uh, pivot here because we just have a few more minutes and uh kind of catch you up because we're going to skip a couple pages. You remember, Abner was Saul's general. Yes, when Saul died, Abner decides to back Ishbushev, which was the last living son or one of the last living sons of Saul. And this lasts for about seven years that that David is not the king of the entire unified Israel, just of Judah. And they're kind of squaring off back and forth. There's some battles and some some some of these things, but for the most part, David has been avoiding some things. Well, Abner, David had three guys that are pretty tough guys. These guys are just really really great. They're brothers actually, And so you have Joe ab and then you have what is Joe AB's brother's name? Uh you off, yep, yep, let me find it here. Abner winds up killing Joe AB's brother. Let me just tell you that. So Abner kills Joe AB's younger brother, Assah Hell. That's it. So he kills Assahell. And then Abashi is one of David's mighty men. Joe ab is one of David's generals, and then they Abner kills Assahal. So then Joe ab decides, whatever it takes, I'm gonna kill Abner. So Joe ab is out with a bunch of guys. Uh, they're fighting a battle. Abner abdicates from ishboshek If accuses Abner of having an affair with one of Saul's concubines and it makes him mad, and so Abner leaves. It goes out, dare you am I a dog? Right? How dare you think I did that? So he comes to David and says, David, I'm leaving ishbel chef, and I'm going to back your play. David's this town has. A feast with him with his enemy, right, and they have a meal and he goes, okay, you know what. The one who advocated that David should not be king. Yeah, and threatened and was hunting him to killing him, Right, David is a gentleman, and he goes, okay, hey, white flag, I'm going to honor the rules of war. And so they sit down. They have a conversation and David goes, listen, I'm not gonna hunt you down. I'm not going to kill you. Just go be safe. Joya. Ab comes back and goes, what the heck? Right? He comes returns back from this great victory, and he goes, what are you doing, David? And he hunts Abner down and kills him. Right. Yeah, So so then here's what it says in the second time Samuel, chapter three. It's verse thirty one says, then David said the joy ab and all those who were with him, tear your clothes and put on burlap, mourn for Abner. And King David himself walked behind the procession to the grave, and they buried Abner, and hebron and the king and all the people wept at his graveside. Then the King saying this funeral song for Abner. Should Abner have died as fools die, Your hands were not bound, your feet were not chained. No, you were murdered, the victim of a wicked plot. All the people wept again for Abner. And David had refused to eat anything on the day of the funeral, and now everyone begged him to eat, But David had made a vow saying, may God strike me and even kill me if I eat anything before sundown. This pleased the people very much. In fact, everything the king did pleased them. So everyone in Judah and all Israel understood that David was not responsible for Abner's murder. Then King David said to his officials, don't you realize that a great commander has fallen today in Israel? And even though I'm the anointed king, these two sons of Zariyah, joe Ab and Abishai are too strong for me to control. So may the Lord repay these evil men for their evil deeds. So it's pretty hardcore, yeah, Then it goes on and they go and they kill two guys, two brothers, Bahanna and Rekkib, who were captains of Ishba Chef's party rating parties. They wind up coming in and they're fighting. Saul's son Jonathan had another son named is Or Aphibischef and who was crippled. There's all these things that are going on, right, So then these two guys come into Ishba Chef's house and to take a rest, the doorkeepers there sifting weight, become sleepy, and so these guys slip past her. They go into the house, find is sleeping in his bed and they kill him. Yep. So then now Ischath is gone. So literally, in just a couple of days, Abner is dead and is Chef is dead. The people come, Ray, Keb and Bahana come to David. See they see it going down. Abner's gone. Is a weak guy we're going to kill and. Then we're gonna get David that like us. So they come to David and David goes, what are you talking about? When somebody just came and gave. Me a message that Saul was dead, anointed one of God. I killed him. He executed the guy who gave him the bad news. And he said, and you guys murdered Ishbaschev. And he executes those two guys too, And he said, don't you understand we don't act that way, right? He said, I've held off for a decade, not stealing the throne because I was waiting for God to give it to me, and you guys took it in your own hands and killed him. David protected himself, David defended himself. But David did not go on the offense to wipe out his enemies like that. These two men that he felt like were men of God. And so I think that there is something extraordinary that we can learn here where David respected even his enemies. He respected Abner as a great warrior and grieved over him, and the people loved David because David had respect for his enemies. Yeah, and you know, this being an election year with you know, debates happening, and you know, everybody just sort of saying good gosh. In fact, I just mentioned to you just by a happenstance, yes, that I remembered a scene back when and Obama was running events against McCain and there was this you know, this is quite a while back, right, so back when people acted like it ladies and gentlemen, and and. I releast that's the way we remember it. Well yeah, sure, sure, well it seemed bad back then, but compared to now. Yeah, we've gotten way worse. We've gotten way worse. But I remember this one scene where somebody had stood up in the crowd and they had said something against Obama and said, oh, he's nothing, but you know, called him some bracist things and did this. And I remember McCain literally said, whoa, whoa, whoa man, sit back down. He said, he is none of those things. And of course he's running against them, right, And he says he is a family man. He is a good man. I just happened to disagree with him about some policies. But so he defended his enemy is you know, is Uh the person he's trying to replace, you know, and in the White House. So I thought, back in the day, Reagan used to sit down for steak dinners with Tip O'Neil, his chief political enemy. Right speak of the house. And so there was a day when we could be civil. Now there was a day too. Jefferson and Adams were horrible towards each other in the newspaper. Not Adams so much, but Jefferson was writing secret letters about it, submittedhim to the newspaper. So there's some horrible things that have happened in our culture and in our world. But there have been times when men and women rose above the turmoil of opinion and still had respect for the human. And we're losing the respect of the human across the aisle from us that disagrees with. Us, yeah, across the board. Yeah, And they're not trying to hunt us down and kill us, right, right, David had respect for Abner going. This guy is a great leader, and we should the world has lost a great leader. Regardless of what he thought of me. And look at all the great things that he's done. Yeah, and so David had a relationship with him and understood, you know, all the things that Abner had done. So yeah, I imagine that because David was captain of the of Saul's army, right, that he was you know, very very close with Abner before that whole thing happened. And Abner's loyalty, you know, how to have it happens, right, you you know, I can't help but go to movies. But you know, remember when Gladiator took place and then all of a sudden, you know, they turned on the general and then the second in command under the general became the first in command and then became sort of his enemy, but he still treated him like a friend. I mean, all that whole complicated relationship thing happened because you know, what other choice does he have. So Abner could have been a person who didn't necessarily love Saul, but was just very loyal to the thrown into the crown into his duty. Right, and like recognizes like yesterday I think we said like attracts like, right, but like also recognizes like and you know, Muhammad Ali and George Foreman became great friends after doing battle how many times, almost killing each other in the ring. Right, It became great friends because they recognized the power and the strength of the others. So I think that's a good place to wrap up. I think to finish there, Hey, we can be ladies and gentlemen, respect those our opponents and give respect. And then also we don't have to take everything into our own hands. We can trust God that God's timing is going to work out. And then we when we continue on with the next podcast, David will have been king over what becomes king? Yeah yeah, Okay, well we'll see then, hopefully on the Bible Gush