Debating Resurrection: Sadducees, Marriage, and Angels

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, Jeff, it's good to be here with you. Here it is, we are here, here it is. That's right, it's time. I just watched the animated version of The Lion King recently, like just the other day. I just turned it on and then my whole family saw it was on, and they gravitated toward the room and we ended up watching the entire thing, which has your favorite Disney song, Oh what Circle of Life? Yeah, I don't love that song, but I like the animation during that song. That's good, that's cool. But the uh no, but anyway, but the monkey says it's time. Oh yeah, there you go. So anyway, yeah, I remember reference. Yeh wow. I'll give you a dollar if you tell me what year that The Lion King was released. Nineteen ninety seven. Oh no, not even close, nineteen ninety nineteen ninety well yeah, all right, so this this is going to be not even close. Nineteen ninety seven is closer to nineteen ninety than I don't know, twenty twenty two. Well, dude, in my mind, that's not even close. It was close. That's a whole decade. It was. It was seven years. Yeah, almost a decade, not almost awful. Hey, so this is supposed to be when people don't like you, Chris, people love me. Actually, that's that's you know, everybody has people on both sides of the equation, right. I was going to say, that's not what the that's not what all the comments say. But hey whatever, Hey, hey, don't people are going to believe that. Stop it. Uh, this is supposed to be Bible verse or not. Now, by the way, we've never done this segment quite like this before. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to read five lines to you, Jeff, and you have to decide whether it is from the Book of Proverbs or if it was generated by artificial intelligence by chat GPT. Chat GPT is the most popular artificial intelligence program of it to just the general population. Yes, so okay, oh this is crazy. So was it artificially a generated verse or is it a Bible verse from the Book of Proverbs? Yes, this is hard, all right here we okay, okay, writing some nervous Yeah, this is gonna be tough. Yeah. Yeah. An open heart and a listening ear are the keys to understanding, and understanding is the foundation of empathy. So certainly sounds like a Bible verse. Is it's ai? It is ai? Yeah, yeah, because the foundation of empathies empathy is the wrong word. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. So I used to read My family read the Book of Proverbs every single night. Yes, we read whatever the chapter was for that day, from yeah, from from from the time I was thirteenth, time I was eighteen. Okay, yeah, yeah, so empathy is not in the Book of Proverbs, right, that's hilarious. That is really funny. Yeah. But what I was worried about was the translation. Is this a translation thing? Yeah, because it could be like the mess or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Oh that's so good. Okay, So I have one point. It's amazing how our minds immediately went to that, both of us. Okay, here's here's another one. Lies will get any man into trouble, but honesty is its own defense. That sounds like a proverb. It is a proverb. Proverb to see what own defense is? The phrase okay, so good job, you are two for two. Good job all r How about this one, don't waste your breath on fools, for they will despise the wisest advice. Proverbs. Yes, that's Proverbs twenty three. Good job. Proverbs has a lot to say about fools and wasting your breath. Of all the five that I'm about to read to you, that was by far the easies. Yeah yeah, okay, okay, here here's another one. A small spark can start a great fire, but it takes wisdom to keep it from burning out of control. That's Proverbs. That is chat jeep, no way, yes, okay, yeah, because because that that sounds awful, like no way, it's the Book of James. I was gonna say it sounds like James. But the Book of Proverbs talks about how yeah a spark, yeah, okay, anything anything talking about wisdom is really misleading there, okay, all right, yeah I beat me on that one. Okay, So you but three to one on it, Jeff over Ai you are three to one. Okay, okay, here this is the last one. Here we go. Kindness is a seed that grows into a tree of compassion, shading those who seek its refuge. That's a I that is a yeah, yeah, okay, four to one. Yeah, So so how do I trash talk AI can I I'm gonna go back to my office. I'm gonna sit down, pull up the chat GPT website, and I'm just gonna start trash talking. Well, you know what I say, I beat you four to one, right right? Well, you know, you know the the two of them are using like twenty twenty one terms like empathy and like a tree of compassion? Can that be anymore twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four? At this point, I guess, well, yeah, that's and that's the danger of the truth versus something that's truth y, right right, And that's what AI does to us. It's truth y yep. Okay, good, Hey dude, four out of five? Wow, man, I feel good. I feel bad about that one that you missed. I can't believe I missed it. Yeah, oh man? Oh well, hey, by the way, I wonder if our listeners were actually playing. I didn't encourage them to, but I wonder if they were actually trying to guess. I wonder if anybody else got five out of five that's what I did. I bet somebody got five out of five. That's hard. Yeah, well, there's some good Christians to listen to this program. Yeah, that's true and knowledgeable. That's right. You know the word. Okay, yeah, but would you like to read the Bible today? Sure, if you want me to. No, I wasn't asking you if you wanted to read it. I was asking should we read it? It's really the thing. But oh, do you want to read? I see you aren't asking me to read the verses out loud, because that's your job. If I don't read them, I don't know what I get to do today. Yeah. No, no, no, if you want to, that's fine, you should, you should, Jeff, I would love to read along with you, okay, as you lead all of us. Wow today, that's good. Okay, So we're going to read in Matthew, chapter twenty two, verse twenty twelve. I love how you figured out that I misunderstood, and yet instead of just going with it and letting me read it, you said, no, No, I wasn't. That's what I meant. I wasn't asking. I didn't mean what because I didn't want you to think I was trying to shirk my responsibility. I mean, I contribute very little to this program. There you go, So the humble approach, there it is. That's great, Okay, here we go. Matthew, chapter twenty two, verse twenty three says that same day Jesus was approached by some sadducees religious leaders who say there's no resurrection from the dead. They posed this question. Teacher Moses said, if a man dies without children, his brothers should marry the widow and have a child who will carry on the brother's name. Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. So his brother married the widow. But the second brother also died, and the third brother married, and this continued with all seven of them. Last of all, the woman also died. So tell us whose wife will she be in the resurrection, for all seven are married to her. Jesus replied, your mistake is that you don't know the scriptures, and you don't know the power of God. For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect, they will be like the angels in heaven. But now as to whether there'll be a resurrection of the dead, haven't you ever read about this in the scriptures. Long after Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had died, God said, I am the God of Abraham, the god of Isaac and the god of Jacob. So he is is he the god? So he is the god of the living, not the dead. When the Colds heard him, they were astounded at his teaching. Mark Chapter twelve, verse eighteen, it says, when then Jesus was approached by some sadducees. They were religious leaders. You say, there's no resurrection from the dead, and they posed this question. Teacher Moses gave us a law that if a man dies leaving a wife without children, his brothers should marry the widow and have a child who will carry on the brother's name. Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. So the second brother married the widow, but he also died without children. Then the third brother married her. Let's continue with all seven of them, and still there were no children. Last of all, the woman also died. So tell us whose wife will she be in the resurrection, for all seven were married to her. Jesus replied, your mistake is that you don't know the scriptures, and you don't know the power of God. From when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect, they'll be like the angels in heaven. But now as to whether the dead will be raised, haven't you ever read about this and the writings of Moses and the story of the Burning Bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the god of the living, not the dead. You've made a serious error. And then in Luke chapter twenty, Chapter twenty, verse twenty seven, it says, then Jesus was approached by some sadducees they were religious leaders, to say there's no resurrection from the dead. They pose this question. Teacher Moses gave us a law that if a man dies leaving a wife but no children, and his brothers should marry the widow, have a childhood carry on the brother's name. Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. So the second brother married the widow, but he also died, and the third brother married her. Miscontinued with all seven of them who died without children. Finally, the woman also died. So tell us, whose wife will should be in the resurrection, for all seven men were married to her. Jesus replied, marriages for people here on earth. But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they will never die again. In this respect, they will be like angels. They are children of God and the children of the Resurrection. But now as to whether the dead will be raised, even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning Bush, long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died. He referred to the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him, well said teacher, remarks some of the teachers of religious law who are standing there, And then no one dared to ask him any more questions. I love Luke's version of that. Yeah, well, I love how Luke is the one because honestly, the Matthew one and the Mark one are almost almost virtually identical, almost word for word. It's almost astounding, because honestly, of all the gospel parallels that we've been in this series with uh, there's not too many that have have matched like this, I mean, and this is this is not just three verses, this is like this is a decent amount of verses here. But anyway, but Luke's verson is I love how he says marriage is for people here on earth. He includes that sentence, right, so he's not talking just in the in the prospect of having Hey, you'll neither be married or given in marriage. He literally says, nope, it's just for people on earth, which is distinctive. That's right. And then at the at the end they say, well, well said teacher remarks some of the teachers, and that that was actually different as well. So here's my question. My question is were they asking genuinely or were they trying to trap him? It doesn't say they're trying to trap him, So I have a tendency believe they weren't trying or else the scriptures to mention it, uh, because they are people who don't believe in the resurrection. Uh, Sadducees didn't were they legitimately saying like, hey, uh, here's an argument. Here's an argument, And I'll give you one that nobody has been able to answer. Because this is the reason why I'm a sadduce this is the reason why I don't believe in the resurrection, So tell me this master? So impractical? Right? And then and then uh, and so were they legitimately saying wow? Well said? Were they legitimately asking? Have you ever thought about that? Yeah? I haven't thought about that. What do you think? I just assumed that it was. It's a it's a perpetual test. There's a constant wrestling. So in this, in this situation, what they're trying to do, I think is offer a question that's unanswerable because nobody else has been able to answer it yet, and maybe minimize Jesus impact in teaching. Right. I think that's personally. I think that's what they're trying to do. We just never see the Sadducees actually coming up looking for truth from Jesus, right, right, So definitely right, So it's not consistent with their character up to this point. And then the fact that Luke says after he answered that when they quit trying to trick him, right, they doesn't say they keep trying to They didn't ask him any more questions. Well, so someone dared right ask him any more questions, which is a pretty good So this is my best argument, and you beat me on now, and I'm not going to talk about it right right, right, So it seems like that to me, But I don't know the reality is The note here for Luke, chapter twenty, verse thirty seven thirty says Jesus answered the Saige's question, then he went beyond it to the real issue. People may ask you tough religious questions such as how can a loving God allow people to starve? Or if God knows what I'm going to do, do I have any free choice? If they do, follow Jesus example, first answer them to the best of your ability, then look to for the real issue, hurt over a personal tragedy, for example, or difficulty in making decision. Often the spoken question is only a test not of your ability to answer hard questions, of your willingness to listen and care. And I think that that's really interesting how Jesus he answers the one, which is because they're not saying, Jesus, we don't believe in the resurrection. It just says it in the note from both Matthew Mark and Luke that said, these don't believe in resurrection, right, so they come and go, Hey, so you know, the law says, if a widow doesn't have any children, then the brother of the dead guy is supposed to marry her and give her children. Right, But if that happens seven times, which is the number of completion, that's why they use that. Right, if that happens seven times, and she doesn't know whose wife is she going to be, So Jesus answers that, well, there's no marriage in heaven. Then he goes on and he says, but let me talk about the resurrection, which is really their issue. They were challenging the resurrection, they weren't challenging marriage. Right. So I was sitting in a room one time. I was I don't know, probably twenty two twenty three. My wife and I had just gotten married. We were serving at this church that was a small church about I don't know, seventy adults. We had about twenty five teenagers, and there was an older woman in the church. And then my wife and I we were brand new. My wife was expecting our first, our first son, and they we were just talking and Bonnie and I were so in love and everything was just an adventure all the time. And the old lady said this passage had come up, and the old lady said, well, you know why there's no marriage in heaven is because God is good and women need a break. Oh my goodness, that's because this one was married to seven men. She deserves a break. Yeah, no doubt. That's really funny. It's really funny. And we were like, oh, that's not funny. But I think it's funnier to my wife now than it was back then. Right, we've been married for thirty something years. Yeah. And and by the way, I'm I'm gonna side note something completely seemingly irrelevant. But so, this is one of the only times ever in the whole Bible where Jesus makes a comparison to humans and angels. So it does say that that we were made a little lower than the angels, right in other parts of the scripture, but this one it says, in this respect, they would be like the angels. Right, they're children of God and children of the resurrection. Uh. If not, if not careful, you can misinterpret this by likening humans and angels. And you know it's that it's that thing that I brought up, I think a couple of years ago. At the end of it's a wonderful life. How angels get their wings? Right, humans die and then what they do is, oh, we get our wings. And by the way, I can't even tell you how many people at funerals say, you know, now she's an angel in heaven. Yes, now she's an angel e heaven. So side note, because it's such a popular misconception, is that humans will never ever ever be angels, right right, Angels are their own creatures. That's it. I'm not gonna listen to this podcast anymore. Yeah, right, right, because I want Grandma picture, that's right, I picture Grandma with a halo and everything else. But that's true. Angels are totally different beings from humans. And you don't stop being human when you die, right, and so and and and so here's the distinction he said in this respect. Yes, that's what he's saying in this respect, And so he's in what is he talking about. He's saying in this respect, just like angels are not a part of marriage in heaven, humans will no longer be a part of marriage in heaven. They'll be like the angels in this respect. So he's not saying that they are angels. People and the the the Bible, you like you referenced. The Bible speaks to humans as being a totally different people, are a totally different being from angels. And so you mentioned the one that the Bible one references that the humans are a little lower than the angels. That's talking about power, right, ye. Power. In another passage, it says that we will judge the angels. Right, So there's totally separate. We're not judging each other. We're not judging ourselves, we're not judging previous dead people. Right, that's not it. They're totally separate. And you know, the angels don't have while some sinned and went with Satan, a third of all the angels fell and they went with Satan lucifer U. Two thirds didn't. And but there doesn't seem to be a redemption process for the angels, right. They they lived in God's presence, face to face kind of a thing, and they they didn't have it. Whereas God offers grace to us. And so the Bible says that you and I, after we die, we will be like him because we will see him as he is right, we'll know him. We will become bodies of flesh and bone. The Bible says we will be resurrected like Christ, we will come back to life, but we will have a new body. It'll be a new creation. And so you will be you. You won't be you know, an angelic version of you. You will be you in heaven and people will know you and you will know them, the Bible says, right, and yeah, so's it's kind of a a neat thing to kind of peek in at that. But there's some some newly weds out there. They're like, oh, no marriage in heaven, right, yeah, right, right, And yeah that's a surprise because we can't imagine without life without it hardly well, right, and for those of us who are married for sure. And by the way, when people have a hard time imagining things in heaven, always always immediately go to the fact that, like, well, pretend you're never sad about anything, right, So it's like, oh, no marriage in heaven. Oh that makes me sad. Okay, Well, pretend that sadness cannot exist in heaven. Pretend that, like you don't have to pretend, right, it doesn't imagine it. Yeah, yeah, there's no more tears, there's no more sorrow, right, right, So if you're not sad about no marriage being in heaven, then then everything's okay, right, Every single thing that you try to imagine is okay. It's like my buddy, I have a really good friend in college I talk to periodically. He's a pastor in Boston, and and I remember being in the mail room in Bible College one day and he goes, do you ever try to imagine, Chris, you know, after billions and billions and billions of years go by in heaven. He goes, Then, then life will just just had just begun in heaven. He goes, don't you don't you try to imagine how boring that might get? And then and I remember like and I remember just like being astounded that that was a thought, you know. And then of course our human experience and our logic would say, yeah, that's right, right, And then all you have to do is imagine, well, imagine if boredom never existed. Imagine if every negativity, you know, all the negativity is gone about Oh I'm so sad because I'm so bored. Imagine that doesn't exist. And then guess what, Everything's okay, right, Everything's okay, It's all going to be okay. So anyway, then and he was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I guess I never thought about that because you're, well, one, there's no time, so you're not going to go, oh, well, that's a billionaires just went by, right, right, So no time. So God exists outside out the side of time, right, So I don't think that time will be an issue. It'll be existence. You're just you're existing in delight, right, and and in pure joy and in pure love, and then you know you we are complete. So at the very beginning of creation, here's my little theory. At the very beginning of creation, God made man. Then God took woman from man, right, and then they need each other, meaning he created woman from man. Yes, that's that's right him, he created a woman from man. You read the first couple chapters book of Genesis, uh, and they they they need each other, they complete each other. But in heaven we will be complete, right, and so because of that, then the marriage element is not necessary. So I told my wife, I said, that just means we're gonna date for eternity. Dating is fun, right right, Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. So I don't know that's true. I was joking. I know, I know, Uh so uh, any other takeways. I was just trying to think of people listening to the podcast. You know, what can we apply How can we apply this today? I don't know, what do you think? Well, Jesus' focus is on the resurrection, so you know, there's the distraction of this complex little issue, which was easy for Jesus soulve but he went to the heart of the issue, which is the resurrection. We have to prepare for that. We have to be ready for the fact that there's life after this life. So we have to be thinking about the fact that this life is just dress rehearsal for eternity. Yeah, that's all this is. Yeah, that's a great application. All right, Well, that's our time, so hopefully we will see you next time on the Bible. Guys,