Transcription

Chris
So, Jeff, the sounds for today are these. Wah!

Jeff
Breathe, breathe. Right. Okay, well, he’s Chris, and I’m Jeff, and we’re the Bible guys.

Chris
All right. Well, we’re going to get to that in a minute.

Jeff
That was crazy.

Chris
But, uh, but uh, today for our segment, we are going to, uh, take a question given by one of our listeners, uh, which is Stump the pastor.

Jeff
Oh, fun. Yeah, yeah.

Chris
So, by the way, just just to let you know, we are all we always welcome questions that you want us to look at or even answer online. Yeah. Or, or on the show. So please write in. You can do that through YouTube. You can email us if you click on one of our email links on the Bible guys. It really comes to info at the Bible guys. Com that’s right. So if you just want to type it in directly in your, uh, new email info at the Bible guys.com, ask us anything and we may use it. So here’s the first, here’s what we’re going to answer. Uh, it doesn’t give a name as to who asked this. Okay. But here’s the question what is predestination and why is it a controversial issue in the church?

Jeff
Well, thank you for that one. No doubt Christians have only been debating this topic for about 500 years. Right? Um, and burning each other at the stake over it. So this is a tough one.

Chris
I mean, this this belief has shaped entire denominations.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So don’t be discouraged by Christians. Right? So we don’t follow Christians. And quite honestly, I don’t follow Christianity, I follow Jesus. So, um, let’s follow Jesus and and God’s words. But there’s a dynamic between, uh, within the Protestant world in particular, um, between people that would be called Calvinists and people that would be accused of being Arminians. Right. So one side or the other, Calvin believed that God had foreordained all the things that were going to happen, meaning it’s all planned out. God knows exactly what’s going to happen. And that man’s will has nothing to do with John Calvin. Yeah, John Calvin had nothing to do with the, uh, salvation process. And Arminius, um, believe that, uh, human humans chose God or rejected God. And it was almost completely, according to their will, right? That God had set the wheels in motion with regard to the opportunity for salvation. But the whole thing was man’s side. And here’s what I would say about that one. Anytime you put a man’s name on your theology, maybe you swung too far. So if you’re a Calvinist and or a median or a Wesleyan, maybe you just went a little too far. It’s too man based. Um, but so the thoughts come from the book of Romans. Um, like, for instance, in chapter eight, a book of Ephesians that talks about how God chose his people in advance. Um, um, and so I have it here.

Chris
If you want me to read it. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. So verse number Romans 829 is, is actually I’m going to put on these glasses actually. Oh good. I have these glasses. It says For God knew his people in advance and he chose them to become like his son so that his son would be the firstborn among many of his brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself, and having given them right standing, he gave them his glory. And by the way, uh, since I’ve already read that, the other big one is Ephesians 111, which says, God chose in advance, and he makes everything work according to his plan. Yeah.

Jeff
So certainly we believe that God is sovereign and that God is in control of history. Uh, so then does that mean that God chose some people for salvation and some people for damnation? That’s really the question. And um, again, like I said, Christians have been debating this for 500 years. I’m not sure we can solve it in the first five minutes of the Bible Gods episode. Right? Um, but so in Romans eight, it says that God chose them in advance. Mhm. And then those that he chose, he gave the ability to become the children of God. So. Um. Who? Who then? Who did he choose in advance? Well, we just read in the book of revelation. Uh, he. Jesus says, whosoever will may come. Right, right. So I believe that he chose all of us, but some rejected him. Right. That that’s that’s my personal belief. And what’s going to happen is a bunch of people that are just going to disagree with that, um, are going to disagree with that. I get that, but here’s here’s my thought. God is in complete control. Uh, he is completely sovereign. And at the same time, he has given us a responsibility to respond to his invitation for salvation. Um, and it’s possible for us to receive or reject Christ. Yeah. And so, however that works out, it’s fine. So I wouldn’t align myself as a Calvinist, but I wouldn’t allow myself as Armenian. Although it’s funny, Armenians would say, if you have any kind of sovereignty of God, well then you’re Calvinist and Calvinist would say, if you believe in free will, then you’re an Armenian. So I’m neither, and I’m content to live in the tension of both. Yeah, right. That God is completely sovereign and that we have responsibility with our free will. Yeah. And, you know, it’s like the chicken and the egg kind of thing, right? Where it’s like, uh, what did God choose us? And therefore we have no choice in the matter? Or did we choose God? And it’s completely in our hands. Uh, but then isn’t it possible for us to choose and for God to already know that? Right? Right. Because if God’s sovereign.

Jeff
Well, so so this is the illustration, and I think we have a little bit of time today because we’re only talking like nine verses or something. Um, so I think I’ve given this illustration maybe back on the old HC daily podcast. But when I was a kid growing up, uh, we didn’t have a lot of money, and we went to yard sales a lot, and I didn’t have a TV, and so I’d buy books and, uh, you know, starting when I was like ten, 11, 12 years old I’d read. But then by the time I was 13, I was reading all the time. And I really liked back then, they had these books called Choose Your Own Adventure Books. And, uh, for instance, maybe by a GI Joe book and Choose your Own Adventure means you read like the first few pages, and then you peek over the hill and the bad guys are down there by the by the headquarters. And so then at the bottom of the page, it gives you a choice. Do you engage and go fight the bad guys right now? Uh, if so, turn to page five. Uh, or do you do more scouting and go around behind? If so, turn to page 11. And so what I would do is I’d read through the book because we didn’t have a lot of money for lots of books, and so I’d make a mark next to all my decisions. So next time I could read the book again and just make a different decision that way I’d read lots of different story endings, and what I discovered was there’s maybe six or 7 or 8 different endings to the book. Um, and but only the author knew the outcome of my decisions, and only the author knew what my what ending my decisions would lead me to. Yeah, it was preordained. And yet I was choosing my own adventure within the parameters that the author set up. The author chose the time and the place and the characters and the circumstances, and then I.

Chris
And the ending.

Jeff
And then, well, multiple endings. Right? And then I navigated free will through the story. So it’s kind of like my life. I did not choose when I was going to be born. I didn’t choose what family I was going to be born into. I didn’t choose what continent I was going to be born on. I didn’t choose what socioeconomic circumstances or social circumstances I was going to have. I didn’t choose my education. I didn’t choose the advantages that I would have in my life or disadvantages I’d have in my life. I didn’t choose any of those things. All those things the author chose for me of my life, and only he knows the outcome of the circumstances. So I believe that the author of the G.I. Joe Choose Your Own Adventure book knew that I would go ahead and charge and fight him right then, and the author knew that I would go ahead and sneak around and scout it out. And so the author wrote both stories. Um, right. And I think that that makes God so much more complex. If I’m a pure Calvinist, I believe there’s one linear storyline for everybody, right? This must happen, and then this must happen, and then this must happen. Um, but I and I don’t believe that’s true, but I do believe that God has set up the parameters of my life, place me in it, and he knows every time I come to circumstance, it’ll be yes. And no and all of the results of that. So instead of making God just be a straight line, linear knowledge in my life, I think it makes God kind of have a 3D knowledge of my life and all of the potential things. And yet he has me within the parameters of life and he’s moving me. His will is moving me towards him. But I can choose to turn to page 11 instead of page five.

Chris
So God knows every universe of your multiverse.

Jeff
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s that’s exactly what it is. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, uh, God wants me to turn to page 11. Maybe, but I can choose to turn to page five, and there’s consequences to that. Yeah. Sure is going to be shorter.

Chris
Yeah. Well that’s.

Jeff
Right.

Chris
Well that’s a great answer. And we would continue this conversation. But we have to move on.

Jeff
To I would love it. Yeah. Yeah I think that again, there’s no perfect answer to this. And I think that God tells us just enough. There’s equal number. People who want to argue only purely the sovereignty of God somehow feels like they’re diminishing God’s sovereignty. If man has a choice. Um, but so I’m the I’m the. Boss in the office. Chad Asman is our executive pastor. There’s many, many things that I’ve delegated to Chad to say, okay, Chad, I want you to make a decision in this. Right. And that doesn’t diminish my authority as the boss. Um, to have him be able to make a free choice, right? I don’t have to be a dictator. I can I can be benevolent. I can be cooperative. I can choose to allow you to choose. And that doesn’t diminish my leadership just because I’ve delegated the decision. And I think that’s true when it comes to salvation. I mean, there’s many things in the Bible that talk about how Jesus said, you didn’t choose me, I chose you and all those things. I get that, but there’s equal number of verses that say, whosoever will may come, God’s not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance, that God’s desire is that all people would come to faith in the Son of Jesus or in the Son of God. Right? So, uh, it’s equal equal number of verses. So I believe that God gives us an equal number of verses to force us into the middle. There’s a lot of tension in the middle, but I just go ahead and embrace it. God’s in control, and I have a responsibility with my choice. And beyond that, I’m not sure I can comprehend much more than that with regard to the mechanisms of how that works. And I just have to be content to go, okay, God, you’re in control of that. And I’m I’m happy.

Chris
And even in the Old Testament, uh, choose you this day who you’re going to serve. Yeah, right. Either God or not. God. Right.

Jeff
So anyways, that’s a great question. And in the 11 minutes that we talked on it, we, uh, I don’t know that we solved it. Not 500 years of debate. Yeah.

Chris
Right. Right.

Jeff
Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, we’re going to pick up and we’re going to read. Now, John the Baptist is born, hence your, uh, Lamaze lesson that you gave us right there at the very beginning. Yeah. Breathe. All right. So, uh, Luke chapter one, verse 57, it says, and I guess we’ll just read to what the end of the chapter, verse 80, it says when it was time for Elizabeth’s baby to be born, she gave birth to a son. And when her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had been very merciful to her. Everyone rejoiced with her. When the baby was eight days old, they all came for the circumcision ceremony. They wanted to name him Zechariah after his father, but Elizabeth said, no, his name is John. What? They exclaimed, there’s no one in all your family by that name! So they used gestures to ask the baby’s father what he wanted to name him, and he motioned for a writing tablet, and to everyone’s surprise, he wrote, his name is John. Instantly Zechariah could speak again and he began praising God. All fell upon the whole neighborhood, and the news of what had happened spread throughout the Judean Hills. Everyone who heard about it reflected on these events and asked, what will this child turn out to be? For the hand of the Lord was surely upon him in a special way. Then his father Zechariah, was filled with the Holy Spirit and gave this prophecy, praise the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has visited and redeemed his people. He has sent us a mighty Savior from the royal line of his servant David, just as he promised through his holy prophets long ago. Now we will be saved from our enemies and from all who hate us. He has been merciful to our ancestors by remembering his sacred covenant, the covenant he swore with an oath to our ancestor Abraham. We have been rescued from our enemies so we can serve God without fear, in holiness and righteousness for as long as we live. And you, my little son, will be called the prophet of the Most High, because you will prepare the way for the Lord. You will tell his people how to find salvation through forgiveness of their sins. Because of God’s tender mercy. The morning light from heaven is about to break upon us, to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death and to guide us to the path of peace. And John grew up and became strong in spirit, and he lived in the wilderness until he began his public ministry to Israel.

Chris
Lived in the wilderness. Yeah, yeah. He was a man who liked bugs.

Jeff
Yeah.

Chris
Yeah. That’s why you like him.

Jeff
Because he’s a he’s a man’s man.

Chris
He’s a camping man.

Jeff
That’s right. He’s a rough guy. Rough and tough. We’ll get some descriptions of him, uh, shortly. Yeah, right. Pretty wild guy.

Chris
Yeah. So the story is, uh, again, it’s just a, you know, a great conclusion to the story. As soon as he says his name is John and he writes it, his mouth is opened and you can’t you and I can’t even imagine what it’s like to not be able to speak for nine months. Yeah. And then my wife.

Jeff
Would probably like it if I’d try.

Chris
Right, right. And then and then for that prophecy to be fulfilled and, uh, and then for him to be able to speak again, it’s just confirmation of how powerful God is. And so you know, if it’s nine months and. Oh, excuse me.

Chris
If it’s nine months since you’ve seen the angel. Then again, this is just as powerful, if not more powerful than than the angels presence. Because now it’s like, wow, the Word of God carries, even not in the presence of a great being. Here we are by ourselves, giving birth with a group of people, but there’s no holy presence around, right? There’s no angelic being. And all of a sudden his mouth, you know, opens and words come out and it’s like, wow, how powerful is God to fulfill this?

Jeff
Yeah. And everybody had been going, oh, man, right.

Chris
And they exclaimed, yeah, I mean, just, you know, can you imagine somebody thinking that he was faking it? There’s nobody that thought that. Yeah, there’s nobody there who can stay quiet for nine months like that.

Jeff
I mean, you’d be shocked if you were an old man and found out that your, your wife, who was also elderly, is expecting. Right. And maybe that would make you not talk for a day or two, but for nine months.

Chris
Not for nine months, right? Yeah.

Jeff
So as a matter of fact, if you were older like that and had been hoping and praying for a baby all this time and you were an older man, you’d go around bragging all the time, look what I did. Right? Right. And, uh, so for him to to be silent like that and then to speak and then I think it’s really amazing. The first things he said, he’s not bragging about his son or prophesying about his son. He’s prophesying about Jesus and then pivots to his son. Second. Yeah. Which is which is really interesting. Right? So he’s oh, God has sent us a Savior. And my son, you, my son, you’re going to be his witness, right? That’s great. And it’s pretty neat that even Zechariah, in the very first time he’s able to speak in nine months, you have to be thinking, because the angel said to prove to you that your wife’s expecting you’re not going be able to speak for nine months and, you know, 3 or 4 months into it. All of a sudden he starts, he could see that she was pregnant. Mhm. Right. And then he still couldn’t speak. But at that point he had to been convinced. And then three months after that his, his uh uh his wife’s cousin shows up and the Holy Spirit comes on, on the baby and on on her and oh wow, this seems more real. And now he has this sense of my, my niece or my my wife’s cousin is, uh, expecting the Son of God. That’s a big deal. And so he had all this time to prepare what he wanted to say. And the first thing he said was, thank God a messiah is coming. Right? And the second thing he said was, thank God God gave me a son who’s going to pave the way. That’s that’s pretty neat.

Chris
You know, I was thinking about, uh, even as you were talking, I was thinking about this idea of, uh, remember I mentioned before, like, uh, the words of God are so powerful that he spoke this prophecy, you know, this promise nine months ago. And then here, here it is being fulfilled. Like, how cool is that? I thought about the concept. So for our listeners, this is a great thought for today. Uh, the concept of delayed gratification. Yeah. Because sometimes we make choices and there’s instant gratification. Uh, but sometimes we all know what it’s like for delayed gratification. So we say no to the piece of chocolate cake today, right? Do we do who does? Well, sometimes. And then we see delayed gratification, right? Sure, sure. We put money in our retirement account. Right. And we say no to the money now. Right. Uh, for delayed gratification. Right. So all of us know what it’s like, you know, to, to do that. And the idea that sometimes God asks us to obey him with delayed gratification. So sometimes God would say, hey, tithe your money now and then, watch and see what happens down the road.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. Well, how many times in the Bible does God say, wait on the Lord, right?

Chris
Right. Yeah. And he’d say like, you know, uh, treat your relationship, uh, you know, keep your relationship sexually pure, uh, so that so that watch what I do with your marriage down the road. Right. You know, uh, and so he asks us to obey or, you know, to to read and to pray and to stay close to him, you know, so that down the road, when bad times happen, how strong will our faith be in those moments? Right. So the idea of delayed gratification is God speaks it out through Gabriel, uh, you know, nine months beforehand. And then the fruition of this promise happens later on when the angel is not there. And, uh, and, you know, God’s word is that powerful when it happens in their midst. And it’s and it’s just a great thought to know that every promise God gives us has that power. Yeah, every, every promise that God says, do this now because it’s for your benefit later. We need to trust and say, you know what? His words are trustworthy. So I’m going to believe this promise. I’m going to adjust my course. I’m going to obey. I’m going to follow his will. I’m going to respond to the nudge, whatever it is, because he said it. And I know down the road I’m going to see the benefit from it. Yeah.

Jeff
That’s fantastic. I think you’re seeing a little bit of that in that last verse. Quite honestly. Uh, John grew up and became strong in spirit, and he lived in the wilderness until he began his public ministry in Israel. Mhm. Um, his father was a priest, which means he probably should have been hanging out with the other priests, the other priests sons, because it was common that, uh, in that culture that the fathers would teach the sons their job, especially the fathers teaching the oldest sons or the first son, and he was the only son. So it would have been one of these things that the fathers normally would have passed down all this teaching. And instead John wasn’t hanging out with the other priests and the other priests sons. He wasn’t hanging around the Pharisees and the Sadducees. He wasn’t in the city center. And, you know, my dad used to say all the time, you either are right now or soon shall be just like the crowd you run with. But. And it’s true, it’s true. The people you hang out with, it’s. Uh, I just was, uh, talking with somebody who went to a wedding recently of two very wealthy, uh, kids, kids that came from wealthy families. And, uh, one of the people said, how what are the chances of that? I said, all the chances in the world, they went to the same private schools. Their dads were members of the same private country clubs. They they hung out with each other, so they married each other. You tend to to develop relationships and go through life and then become like the people you’re around. That’s that’s just how it works. So exposure to certain kinds of people will always have an effect on you. But God had a different message for John. And so God didn’t. Or maybe Zechariah’s father didn’t, because Zechariah’s father knew that John had a different mission. It doesn’t seem like John hung out with those priests and the priests kids, and learned all the attitudes and arguments and theology of because he was coming with a totally different theology. He was out in the wilderness calling people to repent of their sins and come to God, get baptized. That was that was totally opposite of what the Pharisees and what the Sadducees and what the the priests were doing in, in Jerusalem. And so there is something to be said about choosing to step away from the attitudes and thought processes of the world. And one of the best things you can do is, I think what you’re doing today spending time contemplating God’s Word, reading God’s Word, and then hanging around. Um, the kind of people that are going to push you towards God, whereas most of the world is trying to get you to think and act and behave and embrace the values of the world.

Chris
Well that sounds like a great place to end. And I think that, uh, we’ll pick up next time and we hope to see you then on The Bible Guys.