Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff
Okay. Welcome back. He’s Chris and I’m Jeff. We’re the Bible guys. And today we’re talking there’s a huge shift a change in Jesus ministry as he’s pivoting from just the northern Sea of Galilee region to now he’s beginning his head. He’s getting ready to start heading towards Jerusalem.

Chris
Yeah, but before we jump into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re going to go for a segment because it’s Friday and this segment we switch back and forth. You know what makes Chris mad versus what makes Jeff happy. And it takes.

Jeff
You know, time to think of what makes you.

Chris
Mad. Yeah. And it takes you a long time to figure out what makes you happy.

Jeff
It’s because my whole life is happy. It’s just, what am I going to talk about? That’s that’s.

Chris
Wow. You just you just answered you rebuttal, like, in a split second.

Jeff
My whole life is just gloriously happy.

Chris
So it nice to be you.

Chris
Okay.

Chris
So so so so apparently I’m always mad. Just always happy. So we’re going to go ahead and talk about this. So Jeff, I have a question for you. What made you happy this week. Yeah.

Jeff
So what made me so the thing that feeds my soul more than anything else is being out in the wild. So I think the last time you asked me, it was not Jesus. It was, well, yes, Jesus feeds my soul. Yes. The most I’m talking on this earth.

Chris
Oh, I see, I see.

Jeff
Okay, Jesus is in me.

Chris
All the time. I see, I see His Holy Spirit.

Jeff
So. But you know. So I think last time you asked me this, it was like we had just come home from Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons being in the mountains. That was great. So now here we are. We’re in the fall. This is October. And in Michigan that’s hunting. Beginning a hunting season. I’m a bow hunter. I love to hunt with a bow. And so last week, my son and I, my oldest son and I, we went pheasant hunting and we got a lot of pheasants and we just we laughed and we had so much fun. And then just the last couple of days, I had an evening and a morning to be able to be out in the woods for a little while. My has changed and with my bow and last night I was sitting there. I had 22 deer walk through over the course of about three hours walk within 15ft of me. So I actually thought I was hunting a trail that was about 25 yards away from me, because that’s where they usually walk. And for whatever reason, they all came in on a trail just like five yards from me. And so it was really amazing.

Chris
Did you shoot any of them?

Jeff
No. No. Why? Because right now I’m kind of trophy hunting. Right now is a time when I’d get a bigger buck. But, you know, for a lot of people, they’re surprised. Killing isn’t the point for most hunters, right? That’s not the point. That’s the result. And you know, we’re going to eat that meat and it’s going to fill my freezer for the summer or for the winter and all that stuff. That’s that’s a part of it. But it’s the enjoyment of being in nature. Like it was the enjoyment of being with my son. All the laughing, the fun, the camaraderie, sitting around having dinner together that afternoon, laughing with some of my friends. And then yesterday, it was just about being in nature. The the birds, the noise. I sat very quietly for about three and a half, four hours, which is rare, and just having birds fly around. Last year I had an owl that could see my thumbs on my phone and kept coming in attacking my phone. You know, little little screech owl like this big, the geese flying overhead, the deer walking by. I had one deer stop. She’s like 15ft from me. She stopped, just started scratching right behind her ear, and another one came up and started nudging her because they were all on the same trail and she’d stopped, started pushing her. It’s just funny stuff like that, watching animals. And I just I really enjoy that, that kind of thing. So the harvesting an animal is not. The most enjoyable part for me is being.

Chris
Out in the wild, and I hear that most of the time from hunters. I hear about that. In fact, people talk about, oh, I had the best time and I was in this blind. And then I always ask, okay, well, let me hear the rest of the story. They’re like, no, that was it. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
I didn’t take any deer I could have, I could have shot them. All right. There were only just maybe I saw, I don’t know, 11 or 12 bucks, but they were all smaller bucks and so many deer were going by. So, so often I let some of them go that I probably shouldn’t have. Yeah. Thinking, hey, there’s a big one coming, you know? But that’s the point. It’s early in the season, so I’ll fill my freezer this year. I’m not worried about that. But that’s.

Chris
Awesome. Well, good for you.

Jeff
It was beautiful. Really really beautiful. Then the sun set, the sky lit up. You know what I mean? And and there was some sandhill cranes that flew over, you know, and if you’re not paying attention, you normally don’t see them. And that was kind of neat. So I enjoyed it.

Chris
Yeah. That’s cool. When it made me happy when I lived in Atlanta, we would go to this natural reserve like nature preserve park or whatever, and you just pay like a bunch of money and get all this food, and then you walk in and then the deer walk right up to you. Oh yeah. And there’s no fences. Yeah. So they just walk right up and there’s like 16 deer that are nuzzling against you, and then you just feed them from your hand. That’s my version of enjoyment. Yeah. Yeah. Of seeing deer. Yeah. It’s great because the three because because the cool parts that you described about the screech owl and the geese and the deer, that was cool to me. The part of sitting in the woods for three hours, uh, is, is I couldn’t imagine anything worse just, just in terms of, like, you know, being dressed warm and, you know, especially when it’s cold outside and oh.

Jeff
Mercy, it was it was warm yesterday.

Chris
Yeah. It’s really warm. Yeah. That’s good.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. For me it’s really weird because I have the whole ADHD thing. But on the other side of ADHD there’s a superpower and that’s focus. So it’s goofy. You know, ADHD people are all over the place and it’s calmed down quite a bit as I’ve gotten into my 50s. But it used to be really, really, really bad. But most ADHD people do when they have a thing to focus on, can laser focus. Yeah, and that’s what happens, I think when I’m in the woods, nowhere else in my life is it that way, but I can on that.

Chris
That’s awesome, I love it.

Jeff
Hey, we’re going to give you a mission. Project to do. Would you like us? Follow us on Facebook. And would you then share us on Facebook with all of your friends and family? Because we know Facebook needs Jesus. Facebook needs a little bit of the Bible guys, so make sure you do that today. So we are in a kind of a turn. I mentioned this at the beginning. We’re in this turn with Jesus, where he’s got a little bit more work around Galilee, but he’s getting ready to take his disciples to Jerusalem. And so he’s kind of buttoning things up. You’re going to have a couple of key teachings. There’s going to be the Transfiguration. There’s going to be his time when he takes his disciples to Caesarea Philippi and they’re getting ready here. So this is kind of a turning moment in Jesus ministry. And at the same time, the Pharisees and Sadducees and the priests are starting to ratchet up their their aggressive aggression towards Jesus. So Matthew chapter 16 is the first passage and then mark chapter eight. These are in parallel again. So for a while now we’ve been reading Matthew, Mark, Matthew and Mark are kind of paralleling together. So it says, one day the Pharisees and Sadducees came to test Jesus, demanding that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority. He replied, you know the saying, red sky at night means fair weather to morrow. Red sky in the morning means foul weather all day. You know how to interpret the weather signs in the sky, but you don’t know how to interpret the signs of the times. Only an evil adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign. But the only sign I’ll give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah. Jeff
Then Jesus left them and went away. When the Pharisees heard Mark chapter eight, it says, When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had arrived, they came and started to argue with him. Testing him, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority. When he heard this, he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, why do these people keep demanding a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, I will not give this generation any such sign. So he got back into the boat and left them, and he crossed to the other side of the lake. He’s like, no.

Chris
Yeah. He’s like, I’ve given you plenty of signs. Yeah. That’s right. And I’m not your dancing monkey.

Jeff
That’s right. And then in we’ll pick back up in Matthew 16 verse five. It says later, after they crossed to the other side of the lake, the disciples discovered they had forgotten to bring any bread. Watch out, Jesus warned them. But where are the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees? If we’d been going with them, we wouldn’t have forgotten lunch. Right. I wouldn’t have forgot it at this. They began to argue with each other because they hadn’t brought any bread. Jesus knew what they were saying, so he said, you have so little faith. Why are you arguing with each other about having no bread? Don’t you understand even yet? Don’t you remember the 5000 I fed with the five loaves and the baskets left overs. Basket of leftovers you picked up or the 4000? I fed with the seven loaves and the large baskets of leftovers you picked up. Why can’t you understand that? I’m not talking about bread. So again, I say, beware of the east of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Then at last they understood that he wasn’t speaking about the yeast and bread, but about the deceptive teaching.

Chris
I see what he’s doing here. This had to.

Jeff
Disease. Oh.

Jeff
Right. So.

Jeff
So Jesus starts talking about bread and I’m like, dang it, you forgot the bread.

Jeff
It’s like I’m not talking about bread. Okay.

Jeff
But. And then Mark chapter eight, it says, but the disciples forgot had forgotten to bring any food, and they’d only one loaf of bread with them in the boat. As they were crossing lake, Jesus warned them, watch out! Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees of Herod. At this, they begin to argue with each other because they hadn’t brought any bread. Jesus knew what they were saying. So he said, why are you arguing about having no bread? Don’t you know or have any understanding yet? Are your hearts too hard to take it in? You have eyes. Can’t you see? You have ears. Can’t you hear? Don’t you remember anything at all? When I fed the 5000 with five loaves of bread, how many baskets of leftovers did you pick up afterward? 12, they said when I fed the 4000 with seven loaves. How many large baskets of leftovers did you pick up? Seven. They said, don’t you understand yet? He asked them. So two stories. Matthew goes on and he lets us know. They went, oh, I get it.

Chris
But Mark just sort.

Jeff
Of just ends it.

Chris
There. Yeah. Just dramatic walk away. Yeah. And then Jesus turned around and stormed off. Yeah. Fade to black.

Jeff
Right.

Jeff
But what they they finally figured out. Oh, he’s not actually talking about Brett.

Chris
Right. Well, he literally said it. How can you not understand that? I’m not talking about Brett. Right. When I say yeast of the Pharisees, you should know what that means. Right? Right? Right. Yeah. In that way. That reminds me of Nicodemus when he says, you must be born of water. And he goes, wait a minute, can a man be born again from his mother’s womb? Right. And Jesus is like, how could you be fair? How could you be?

Jeff
You’re one of the most intelligent men in the country.

Chris
Yes.

Jeff
Really? You think that’s what I’m talking about?

Chris
And he’s like. He’s like, how could you possibly question that? He’s like, you are very. You’re a.

Chris
Very smart man.

Chris
Nicodemus. Yeah.

Chris
It’s the same thing here, right? But only this time he’s actually sort of calling them out and saying, you’ve been with me a long time, right? You’ve seen a lot of things. You’ve heard me say this repeatedly. How could you possibly still not understand? And and by the way, the, the, the prophet Jonah. So, you know, there is still, still a small faction of people who believe that Jonah maybe wasn’t a real literal story, that maybe it was some sort of a widely known fable, and that even here that Jesus is referring to the fable, whether it’s a fable or a literal story. Right? It doesn’t matter, because the meaning is true. Right? So he could have been referring to a commonly known fable. Right? But we have a tendency to believe that in the Bible it actually gives so many details about Jonah. And it doesn’t say there was a story of a man or a certain man. Remember a lot of the parables.

Jeff
Jesus doesn’t talk about Jonah like it’s a fable. No.

Chris
And a lot of the parables, Jesus would say A certain man walks down from Jerusalem to Jericho. That’s right. And he and he sort of sets it up like once upon a time, right? Right. But nowhere in the Jonah storyline is has anybody ever say, once upon a time, that’s right. Or, you know, whatever.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. So we would reject the idea that it’s just a fable. That’s correct. Right.

Chris
Yeah. But I hear it all the time. I don’t know if you hear people talking about it, but I’ve heard dozens and dozens of people.

Jeff
Yeah. A famous a famous preacher came out a while back and said those things that, hey, I’m comfortable with all these things. We have a hard time with being fables. That’s fine. I’m fine with that. Right. So I just I think that there’s a danger in that as opposed to Jesus just states Jonah as a fact. He mentions Noah as a fact. He mentions Adam and Eve as a fact, and he doesn’t doesn’t even wince or try to justify or talk around the edges of those things as opposed to he’s quick to point out the traditions of the Pharisees, right? Right. So so there’s a big. So it’s not like Jesus doesn’t point out tradition, the separation between tradition and fact. It’s that he treats these as fact. And then he points out the traditions when when it’s an issue for him. So I think that that’s a, a kind of a broken strategy to try to do that, but to try to justify that Jonah is fake. But a couple of things. One.

Chris
Should we at least button that up by saying, Jesus, Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days.

Jeff
And three nights. Yeah. So he was he was he was hinting at his resurrection.

Chris
Yes. But even then.

Jeff
He didn’t say that.

Chris
Right. But I was just wanting to make sure that our listeners understood that.

Jeff
So we’re telling two different stories here. So let’s finish that one and then we’ll go back to the first one we started with. I think the the big lesson to take from this, when Jesus they come say, hey, Jesus, they’re arguing with him is what Mark tells us. They came and started to argue with Jesus and then they demand, hey, show us a miraculous sign. And essentially he goes, no.

Chris
Right. Is it?

Jeff
You only said I’m going to give you is my resurrection. And he doesn’t even say resurrection. You don’t say I’m going to give you as a sign of. Jonah gets in the boat and leaves, right? Did you know you don’t have to argue with your critics?

Chris
I never, I hardly ever do. Right.

Jeff
You don’t have to engage at all with your critics. You don’t have to justify. You don’t have to. And Jesus rarely did. Jesus would confront them when they were being hypocritical. But most of the time on stuff like this, he just walks away. He’s like, I don’t have to prove my authority.

Chris
So let me, let me, let me express something that I think is relevant. So, so it’s all about the heart, right? So like for instance, I’ll give you an example. So we attend a church called Heritage Church, and we did an artistic element on stage. And it was it was a dance, right. It was just a fun thing. Right. And it was it was thematic to the day. And we used it to point toward teamwork and things like this. And, and then and if somebody would have had a problem with that for any reason whatsoever, it didn’t matter what the reason is, if somebody would have been like, hey, you know, I’m questioning this or what’s the philosophy? Or, you know, let’s talk about their clothes or, or hey, why this secular song, whatever, it doesn’t matter what the. But if somebody genuinely approaches me and says, hey, man, I’ve got a bone to pick with you, and I’ve got these standards that I think should be your standards, I welcome that conversation 100% of the time, 100%. But then if somebody goes, oh, and they storm out and they go, I’m offended, I’m going to complain, I’m going to say these things and they storm out. My tendency is to say, I don’t even care to have a conversation with you, because if you would be just a normal person and just and just inquire, we can still disagree. And even if you decide to get mad and leave the church, then it’s done the right way, right? But if somebody gets huffy, all you’re really doing is you’re just showing that you have no maturity in Christ and I have no time for you. And by the way, that’s pretty harsh, but I think I’ve sort of grown to that point where you always say like, or you just said a minute ago, you don’t have to argue with your critics. Chris
I would love to debate that. I would love to have a conversation about that intelligently. But if there’s somebody who reacts that way, I never respond to that person. Yeah.

Jeff
So the trajectory of the Pharisees and the Sadducees was clearly defined, right? Right. As opposed to the trajectory of the disciples, was they wanted to honor hey, they had left a couple different times and went out and told people everywhere about Jesus. The kingdom of heaven is here. They’re healing people. They want to serve Jesus. They don’t get it all the time, and they’re confused by almost everything he says.

Chris
You’re saying the Pharisees.

Jeff
Want to talk about the disciples?

Chris
Oh, the disciples.

Jeff
So, so, so you differentiate between the disciples and the Pharisees. So the trajectory of the Pharisees was anti Jesus. The trajectory of the disciples was we want to honor Jesus. We just don’t get it most of the time. Right. So there’s a big difference between so the disciples were clearly on Jesus side. So Jesus took the time to go unpack that a little bit. But with the Pharisees they were clearly positioned against Jesus. And so I think, Jesus, that Jesus behavior shows us you’re probably not going to win over your your enemies. So not that Jesus had determined that the Pharisees were his enemies, but the Pharisees. Therefore the Pharisees had determined that Jesus was their enemy. Right? Right. And so in that situation then he just realized, I’m not going to change their minds. So no, I’m not going to I’m not going to give you what you’re asking for right now.

Chris
So at the beginning of the week of this podcast, we had referred to some of our colleges having silly rules, right?

Chris
Sure.

Chris
I remember having a conversation with a good friend of mine, Sean, who lives in Boston and started a church and grew it. And it’s wonderful and it’s great. And he was a really dear friend in college, and we still keep in touch. Anyway, we’re in we’re in the mail room and and he says, I think I’m going to spend my life engaging with this college and working to change the mindset. And I said, in that mail room, my life is too short for those kinds of frustrations. I can’t stand to be in this environment, you know, longer than I have to be. So I’m going to spend my life just running away from this environment. Right? And even though it took me seven years to truly walk away from that environment, it really did. But anyway. But, but but then here’s what he said, though. He looked at me and said, Chris, if I don’t stay and try to change this environment, who will? Which means that he was called, right? He was called. And so sure enough, we go our separate ways. 20 years passes, right? And then maybe 18 or wish. And then he invites me back as the keynote speaker at the college at one of these big things. Well, come to find out, he’s the guy at the college. So when we went to college, there were certain, like, youth pastors that would come in and they were sort of our heroes, you know. Well, he’s the guy and everybody, like, loves him. And they’re like, Sean’s our man. If he can’t do it, no one can.

Chris
Sean. Sean. Sean, right?

Chris
Well, Sean is the guy. So he calls me in and says, oh, I got this friend Chris, you know, and he’s he’s going to be the keynote speaker or whatever. Well, and one of the, one of the breakouts and one of the breakouts, they, they very foolishly this was their fault, not mine. Their fault. They very foolishly only planned one breakout where I spoke in one room at the exact same hour. Their hero, Sean, spoke in the other room. And at the time the college was running 400 people. Okay, so you had to choose between No Name Chris, who didn’t associate with the college at all, or Sean the hero. There was 390 people in Sean’s breakout, and there was ten in mine in a room that could hold 400.

Chris
Oh, sure. Right.

Chris
So how about that? So anyway. But the point is, the point is, though, you’re talking about either either the way.

Jeff
It is when we preach. Now, if we let people know that I’m speaking versus.

Chris
Oh.

Chris
That’s funny though. But anyway. But here’s what I’m saying though. Even though that I’m like, oh, I’d rather walk away. Just like just like Jesus did, right? I’m not going to win my enemies I admire so much, Sean.

Jeff
The fact that he was.

Jeff
Willing to stick it out.

Chris
Yes.

Jeff
Make changes in the inside. Yes. Well, he didn’t view them as enemies like you did, right?

Chris
Right? Right, right.

Jeff
You grew up feral, right? I’ve made that joke before, but, I mean, you grew up with no rules.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Hardly any. I would think that you would hate the Marine Corps if you had joined the Marine Corps, too. You’d be angry about the fact that government has rules to tell you when you have any. Right?

Chris
No, no, no, no, or let me tell.

Chris
The difference, though. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Except except so you because they were using religious arguments. No, no.

Chris
It’s not even that. It’s, it’s I agree with the Marine Corps rules. Right. So like I see the purpose. Yeah, sure. So even even if it’s crazy.

Jeff
But nobody kept making you go back. You kept choosing to go back.

Chris
Yeah. Well, well, actually, that’s not entirely true.

Chris
You were paying for it was.

Chris
It was the only college that I could afford.

Chris
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Chris
To accomplish my goal. Yeah. So that was really it. So. So I to come.

Jeff
To the college, I went.

Jeff
To charge.

Chris
Less.

Chris
I wanted to go to Liberty University. Yeah, right. That’s what I wanted to do. Oh yeah. The only difference was, is Baptist Bible College was $4,000 a year a year. Right?

Chris
Right.

Chris
And Liberty was like 16.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Back then, it’s way more now.

Chris
It’s way more now.

Jeff
Yeah. But so anyways, the you know, for a guy who grew up with no rules, any rules would be really difficult. But if Sean grew up around this and understood the heart behind a lot of it, his dad.

Chris
Was a pastor.

Jeff
Yeah. Yeah. Then he would he would love the good and just want to change the bad. Whereas for you, I think you had a hard time sorting between between those things. And so you weren’t designed to try to fix that. Yeah. Well, but maybe Sean was designed.

Chris
To fix it. And my very nature is to rebel against stupidity. Right. If I if I think something is and none of that oppressive. Right. All that, all that stuff. So, so military is more like we’re doing this and in the end result, you’re going to be a marine and you’re going to learn these things.

Chris
I think both.

Jeff
Of us would have had a good shot of being court martialed if we’d gone into the military. I got kicked out of two Bible colleges for pranks, so I think so. I’m not judging you on that. I’m just saying that. So for for these, it’s the trajectory of their lives. Yes. So the ultimately Jesus had no patience with these guys who had positioned themselves as his enemies or chosen to make him enemy, but he did take the time with his disciples. Now he’s frustrated. Come on, don’t you guys get this right? Right. And finally, they understand that he’s talking about way more. There’s one other lesson in here to finish with, and that is this. When Jesus is talking, it’s important for us to look about what is he really talking about? Yeah, right. Because even now they’re like, oh man, we should have brought more bread. How come you do bring more bread? I’m not talking about bread. Right. And I think it’s really important to every time you read to try to figure out not just what did he say, but what’s the principle behind what he said is incredibly important when you’re reading about Jesus in the Gospels.

Chris
So, yeah. And it’s also it’s also another sermon in there is when you read a Bible verse, how God will use that Bible verse to apply directly to your own life. It’s sort of the same principle where it’s like, yeah, this verse means this, but the next step is to ask, what does this verse mean for me? For me? Right, right. And so yeah, there’s a difference.

Jeff
Between to me and for me. Right, right. What does it mean to me? That means I get to choose my own definition of what it means, right? When you’re asking, what does it mean for me? What? You’re saying is what is the principle? He’s saying that should be applied in my life, right? Right. And that’s that’s a big a big ask, a big question. But if we get to where we start thinking that way, you will read the New Testament in a totally different way. When you start looking just beyond the words and start looking to the principle of what is he actually trying to tell me should affect my life?

Chris
And it’s the end game of every encounter with Jesus, right? It’s change. Application change. That’s right. So that’s a great place to end. And thanks for listening and we will see you hopefully next time on The Bible Guys.