Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff
So Chris, this is going to be a good one today. Yeah, I am so excited about this. And here’s why. Because you are a Bible guy.

Chris
I am I’m one of the two one of the official Bible guys.

Jeff
That’s right. And then on top of that, you are a movie guy.

Chris
I am a movie guy.

Jeff
And what was your favorite movie as a kid?

Chris
As a kid, it would have to be the Star Wars franchise, eight.

Jeff
Nine, ten years old. That was probably.

Chris
Came out in 77, the first one. So that would have been what we were six six.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah.

Chris
So six, seven, eight, nine and ten all all of the Star Wars trilogy had been out.

Jeff
So this is right up your alley because here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to do five Bible verses or Star Wars quotes. Yes. And you have to tell me which is which.

Chris
And by the way, I just read that not even a minute before we started recording. Yeah, yeah. So we’re not read the quotes, but read the idea. Right? And I said, I said, dude, I had all the Star Wars figurines as a kid. Oh yeah, I had the big At-At walker. I had the Landspeeders, the Dewbacks, which were the big lizards that they rode, the Tauntauns I had that, yeah, I had all that stuff.

Jeff
I had Tauntauns and Dewbacks. Yeah, yeah, yeah that’s great. Okay, so I did not have back.

Chris
As a dewback.

Jeff
I did not have that At-At, so I did. I had the Landspeeder. Yeah, I had an X-Wing fighter. Oh yeah.

Chris
We had X-Wing fighter.

Jeff
And then I can remember I was like ten years old, 11 years old.

Chris
We had the Millennium Falcon.

Jeff
I was going to say the biggest Christmas present I ever got as a kid was the Millennium Falcon. Yeah, it was the Christmas present I got that year. But yeah, yeah, so cool man. So we were both super cool when we were kids. That’s what I’m.

Chris
Saying, right? We’re. Ju ju ju ju.

Jeff
So I have a landspeeder. An X-Wing fighter and a Tie fighter on my desk in my office.

Chris
Nice. Yeah. So you’re still cool? I still.

Jeff
Got him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so here we go. Here’s five quotes. They’re either a Bible verse or a Star Wars quote. This is going to be hilarious. Here’s the first one. Yep. Let me look on you with my own eyes.

Chris
Oh, geez. Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader says as he says takes off my mask, right? Yes. Let me look at you with my own eyes. Okay, but you’ll die. It’s too late for that now, right? Come on, come on, give me. Give me a better one.

Jeff
Okay. Oh, don’t make me go back and watch my father die in grief.

Chris
That’s got to be a Bible verse.

Jeff
Because you don’t know it.

Chris
Because I know it’s not a Star Wars quote. All right. Well, hang on, I’m going to say I’m going to say. That is is that is that something like that? Hannah. Say this was this. Ruth. Was this Noah who says this? Where’s the. I’m trying. I’m trying to add Genesis 44. Oh, I wonder who that is. Joseph.

Jeff
Probably. Jacob.

Chris
I thought that that ended. I thought that ended in 37, 44.

Jeff
Or 39, 44 would be probably Joseph. It’s Joseph’s story. Because Joseph’s story ends in 50.

Chris
Oh, yeah. You’re right. It culminates. It culminates with his brothers in the late 30s.

Jeff
So it’s going to be Jacob. Joseph, his brother. Somebody’s right there. Yeah.

Chris
So it’s probably Jacob who’s. Who’s talking about.

Jeff
Okay, here we go. Yeah, this will be a day long remembered.

Chris
This will be a day long remembered. Now, that could be anything. That’s. That is a generic statement. This will be a day long remembered. Okay, now I’m going to lean on my Bible knowledge here because I don’t remember it from Star Wars at all, but I’m trying to try to place it in the Bible. This will be a day long remembered. Oh goodness. It has to be a miracle. It has to be like a. This will be a day long remembered. I’m going to go against my instincts here. I’m going to say Bible verse.

Jeff
It’s Darth Vader.

Chris
Oh, no, you’re kidding me, dad. Come on.

Chris
I’m so mad at myself.

Chris
Geez. Okay, this would be a date.

Chris
Does it say where?

Jeff
No, it doesn’t say. It just.

Chris
Says so. We’re gonna have to ask Desiree.

Jeff
What day was long remembered.

Chris
This would be a day long remembered. Yeah. Okay.

Jeff
Okay. How about this one? They fail to see why they were defeated. They cannot understand what happened.

Chris
Now that’s got to be a Bible verse that did not exist in the Star Wars trilogy. Hang on, hang on. Uh, say, say the quote again. I’m going to try to guess.

Jeff
We fail to see why they were defeated. They cannot understand what happened.

Chris
Was that like the battle of AI or something?

Jeff
No, it’s in Deuteronomy 32. So this is Moses just giving a speech. Okay. Okay.

Chris
Yep. I got the Bible verse part.

Jeff
Yeah, you got that part. Okay. And here you go. Your eyes can deceive you. Don’t trust them.

Chris
No. Obi-Wan says that to Anakin. Yes, I know that one.

Jeff
I love that, I love. Yeah, like there’s nothing.

Jeff
Yeah. Okay. Well, hey, you were really good. Except for just the one.

Chris
I get, what, 4 to 5?

Jeff
Four out of five.

Chris
Okay. That’s pretty, pretty impressive right there. I’m happy.

Jeff
With that. That’s an 80% passing grade.

Chris
Yeah, right. It’s like a B minus or something. Yeah.

Jeff
Hey.

Chris
Or C plus.

Jeff
Was it my son? My son told me. D is for diploma.

Chris
D is for diploma.

Chris
That’s really funny. Okay.

Jeff
Well good job Chris. That was great. I knew you’d do well at that one.

Chris
Yeah, well, you know, Star Wars.

Jeff
Star Wars expert.

Chris
How many times have you seen the Star Wars movies? The. Let’s let’s just limit it to the.

Jeff
First the first original.

Chris
Trilogy?

Jeff
Three. Probably three times each. In my lifetime.

Chris
Okay, I’ve probably seen them three times each in the past two years.

Jeff
Wow. Really? Yeah. You watch them? Yeah, yeah. That’s impressive. Good for you, buddy.

Chris
Yeah, I guess I don’t know. Yeah.

Jeff
No, that’s a good thing.

Chris
One could argue and say, Chris, you waste too much time. You know what? I used to actually think I had a guy at work. We had to move on, but we had a guy at work who remembered every, like, football stat on every on every football card. Yeah, yeah. From every college stat and everything else. I used to say to myself, dude, just memorize a Bible verse or something. I’m like, why do you waste your life? Right? But then, but then all I got to do is just think about what I do for a living is a big part of what I do for a living, I should say, is create moments artistically to capture people’s attention and point them toward Jesus. Right. So that’s, you know, in charge of in charge of weekend service stuff. Right?

Jeff
You’re a storyteller.

Chris
Yeah. For decades. Yes. And so and I think to myself, the reason why is because I don’t view it as time wasted. I view it as a honestly spiritual moments in a lot of ways. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah. Right. Sure. Well, it doesn’t surprise me that a person who is primarily a storyteller and a communicator would get pulled into great stories and things that are well communicated. Yeah, right. That’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s totally makes sense to me. Um. So here we are, Matthew chapter 18, verses six through ten. And then we’re also going to read Mark chapter nine. And Jesus is warning against temptation here. So this could be a really good, really good. Podcast. So he says, but if you cause one of these little ones who trust me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck be drowned in the depths of the sea. What sorrow awaits the world because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting? So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot, than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Beware that you don’t look down on any of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels are always in the presence of my Heavenly Father. And then in verse Mark chapter nine, it says, but if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone hung around your neck. Jeff
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter life, eternal life, with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands. If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one foot than to be thrown into hell with two feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It’s better to enter the kingdom of heaven or the Kingdom of God with only one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell where the maggots never die in the fire never goes out. For everyone will be tested with fire. Salt is good for seasoning, but if it loses its flavor, how do you make it salty again? You must have the qualities of salt among yourselves and live in peace with each other.

Chris
Yeah, so there’s a lot. There’s a lot in here. Yeah.

Jeff
So why don’t you just go ahead and tackle that one?

Chris
Yeah. Well, the very, very first thing that I always hear about this passage over the years is, does God want us to cut off our hands and gouge out our own eyes? And so, so the footnote here in the Life Application Study Bible on Matthew 18, verse number eight says, we must remove stumbling blocks in our lives that cause us sin. This does not mean to cut off parts of the body for the church. It means that any person, program, or teaching that threatens the spiritual growth of the church body must be removed for the individual. Any relationship, practice, or activity that leads to sin should be stopped. Jesus says it would be better to go to heaven with one hand than to go to hell with both. Sin, of course, affects more than our hands. It affects our minds and our hearts. And so, you know, Jesus often talks about how you know, it’s one body. Paul talks about it in First Corinthians as well. Right? He says the church, the church, the church is one body. You know, you can’t say to the hand, you know, that the foot doesn’t need you and all these kind of things. And so he’s not literally he’s talking metaphorically like he almost always does. And I am the door. Yes, I’m a rock. I’m the gate. Right, right. And know bread, the yeast of the Pharisees, the water. Yes, everything. And so when he says, you know, this is my blood that is poured out for you, right? So, so again, he’s he’s referring to this metaphorical picture of the church being the body. And also he could even be talking about the individual body.

Jeff
Yeah, I was going to say the church didn’t exist at this point. Right, right, right. So so I don’t think he’s doing that. I think it’s applicable. Yeah. Right. I don’t think he’s talking specifically. He’s talking specifically to us, to his disciples with regard to temptation for themselves.

Chris
Remove from your life.

Jeff
Anything from yourself.

Chris
Remove from your lives the things that that are sinful, that cause you sin. Which, by the way, I have a I have a story about this. I remember I was just in Bible college my junior year of Bible college, and my home church was actually launching a new church in Pennsylvania, which is like 20 minutes down the road from Youngstown, Ohio. And and so they were sort of interviewing me. So I was on my interview with, with this pastor to see whether he wanted this Bible college kid to be his youth pastor on this new church launch. So my first job, by the way, was a church plant. Yeah. So kind of cool, right? Yeah. So anyway, so we got the Burger King. I remember Fancy Meal, right? And as we’re walking out of Burger King, I need your reaction for this one. As we’re walking out of Burger King, this girl walks by and let’s just keep it safe. Let’s just keep it innocent here by saying like, holy cow. And what she was wearing kind of a thing. This, this girl that was my age. Right. So she as she walks by and we’re walking to our car, I turn around and I watch her walk. Oh, no, which is not a good thing, right?

Jeff
No, not not at a job interview for a church job.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, well, not at all. Not not for any time. Right. But but I do I totally get just, you know, enamored with what she’s wearing or maybe not wearing. And then Pastor Jamie looks at me and goes, hey, if your eye offends you, gouge it out. Right? And then I immediately and I don’t recommend this for anybody. I’m just being real and honest. Right? Right. This is total confession time, right? Right, right. I immediately, without even hesitating, I go, what? I go, oh no, I know her. I can’t believe she’s wearing that.

Jeff
Oh, and.

Chris
I didn’t know her.

Jeff
Yeah, I know, but. So you lied.

Chris
I lied, but but it was the.

Chris
Most clever and believable lie ever.

Chris
Right? Right, right. They go, they go, they go.

Chris
Oh, okay. All right, all right I go. Yeah. I can’t believe she’s wearing that.

Chris
I know her. No. Yeah.

Jeff
You should have got your eye out. Is what?

Chris
You stuck.

Jeff
Your thumb right in your.

Chris
Eyes. Hey.

Chris
I told you it’s confession.

Chris
Yeah, I’m.

Chris
Just being real.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
So there’s another.

Chris
Note because that was.

Chris
Like, 19.

Chris
Or something. Sure, sure.

Jeff
Right. Yeah. So there’s another note in Mark chapter 943. In the Life Application Bible, it says this startling language is not meant to promote self-mutilation, but instead stresses the importance of cutting sin out of your life. And then this is interesting. He says painful self discipline is required. Of Jesus true followers giving up a relationship, a job, or a habit that’s against God’s will may seem just as painful as cutting off a hand. But Christ is worth any possible loss or discomfort. Nothing should stand in the way of faith. We must be ruthless in removing sin from our lives now in order to avoid suffering for eternity. Make your choices from an eternal perspective. Right. So this idea of being ruthless in removing sin from our lives, so it’s not ruthless and removing sin from others lives. Right now, we’re not supposed to be ruthlessly judgmental, right? But we are supposed to be ruthless in trying to remove sin from our own lives. And this idea of self discipline in the King James, Paul says, I buffet my body every day. You know I’m fighting against my flesh all the time. And so you’re not fighting against your flesh to go to heaven. You’re fighting against your flesh to be more usable and to demonstrate your love for Christ while you’re living here on earth. Right. That’s that’s the the reason. And so I think that this idea that Jesus is saying, he speaks in metaphors all the time. So he’s not talking about actually cutting off body parts, but he is saying sometimes following me and making a choice against your flesh can feel painful, right? Against your own preferences can can feel painful, and but it’ll be worth it if you have an eternal perspective. Jeff
So yeah, that’s it’s a surprising one. He uses startling language on purpose.

Chris
Yeah. And then let’s let’s not overlook the warning at the very beginning as well. So we’ve talked about the hand cutting off of that. Yeah. But he says if you cause one of these little ones who trust in me to fall into sin, it’d be better for you. Better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. Which, by the way. Yuck. That’s a graphic image. Yeah, yeah, tying a millstone would be like an actual, you know, like a like a. Yeah, a large stone that would be so heavy that it would be used for grinding like wheat. Right, right, right. Yeah. Like like, you know, back then they didn’t have machinery.

Jeff
£500 or £1000. It’d be a big stone, kind of rough. And it would sit on another stone. There’d be like a beam through it. And then they would the donkeys or the oxen would get out. They’d have a pole or a post, and they’d walk around in a circle and they’d grind wheat together, you know, grind wheat underneath that stone. And so those things could weigh sometimes 500 or £1000.

Chris
Yeah, yeah. And so he’d take you down quick.

Jeff
Yeah. Even a guy like me.

Chris
Dude, I mean, it’s going to take anybody down. It’s going to take anybody down except for Superman. So but but what he’s really saying is he’s talking about the importance, the absolute warning against, you know, leading somebody who is young in their faith astray, you know, somebody who actually, you know, especially somebody very young, right, in their faith. And so when I, when I read that so I did just probably just like you, I did Vacation Bible schools for kids.

Jeff
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Chris
So when I was, when I was a student pastor, you know, I did all the jobs, right? Just like you did. You were.

Jeff
There. Everything else.

Chris
Pastor was the everything else, pastor. So I ran a high school ministry. I ran middle school ministry. I ran all the nurseries, all the all the kids programs. I did the camps in the summer. I did 8 to 12 year old junior camp, vacation Bible schools, all the things you mow the lawn. Uh, did you clean the bathroom? No, I did clean bathrooms. Yeah, I did too, but I didn’t mow the lawn, though.

Jeff
I can remember one time changing out the urinal cakes in a bathroom going, I’m the urinal cake pastor.

Chris
Right? That’s what I am, right? Right.

Jeff
This is not what I thought seminary was going to.

Jeff
Produce, right? Right.

Chris
Well, you know, when you’re a part of a small church, you just sort of roll up your sleeves.

Chris
You do everything.

Chris
You just do everything. That’s right. So anyway, bottom line is, is because I dealt with children so much, I always remembered this warning in the back of my mind because, you know, you look at a group of kids who are like, you know, six years old and you’re like, raise your hand. Who doesn’t want to go to hell? Yeah. And everybody raise your hand and you’re like, okay, now you’re saved, you know? And then all of a sudden they grow up and they come into their own and they say, I’ve always been told by my parents that I had faith, but I don’t remember anything. And and it’s like there’s a danger to that. Yeah. And so you have to, you know, hold in your hand a responsibility, you know, to, to. And by the way, this is a, this is a good message for parents. Yes. Right. You know, so so we as parents, if we have faith one of our major goals in life actually, if not one of the biggest goals, is to make our children allow our children’s faith to become their own. Yeah, right. Because, you know, a children’s faith, it doesn’t become their own. It’s their parents faith. You know, you’re going to go to church and you’re going to like it, and you know, you’re going to you’re going to be made to do this and that. And and that’s a careful balance. And then then they sort of grow up and say it was never my faith, right? It was my parent’s faith. Right? Right. So there’s a balance of like of like, you know, sort of like saying son, daughter, do what I say. But at the same time make your faith your own. So anyway, all that to say, I remember when my son. Chris
And I’m sure you do too. Became a Christian. So do you know that my son actually became a Christian pretty early on? He was like five and a half. Which is really early, right? Maybe six. Maybe. I could probably figure out the year, but it was the year that Spider-Man came out with Tobey Maguire. Oh, so Spider-Man number one. And and and it was when Uncle Ben died. And so. Oh, yeah. Tucking him into bed and and as I’m tucking them into bed, he says, dad, what happens when you die? And I’m just trying to get him tucked into bed, man. I’m just like. I’m like. So it was 2002. Yeah. He was born in 1998. Okay. So he was only that was only four when he came out. So it might have been like the year afterwards because we were watching it on VHS. Right. So it was 5 or 6. And anyway, so I’m just trying to tuck them into bed like son, just go to bed. And he wouldn’t let it go until eventually I ended up leading him to Christ. And and so he prays a prayer. And then we get back and he gets baptized. But, man, I just remember the weight of this verse even in my mind back then saying like, man, you’re not going to get baptized unless you can tell me clearly that you understand this. Yeah, yeah, right. So it has to come from you. Yeah, yeah. What about what about your kids?

Jeff
Well, yeah, very similar stories. You know, where they they were fairly young, all of them. And, and recognized their need for salvation. And that’s a really heavy responsibility. Right. But it’s a privilege. It’s a great privilege. The other thing I think I see there is, you know, because it’s talking about not leading people, children, young people, new believers into sin specifically. Right. And so I think we have in our culture today, kind of a sense that adults and parents are supposed to co-sign every feeling and every desire of our children rather than mold them and shape them towards good and right and truth. Right. And so whether we’re talking about identity issues or certain behaviors or all these things right now, there’s an expectation that parents just go, well, if that’s what you want, that’s what you can be. If that’s what you want, that’s what you can do. Right? Right. And that is not our job as parents. And I think that’s one of the warnings. That’s not our job as youth pastors. It’s not our job as schoolteachers. It’s not to co-sign every immature bad behavior or bad desire. Instead, it’s our job to point them to truth. And if we are the kind of person who is co-signing or endorsing all these bad things that are not the best things for our children, then he said, there’s consequences for us. Yeah, right. And so I think that we have to just step up and decide we’re going to be parents, we’re going to be adults, we’re going to be godly people who point our children and our young people and our new believers to truth, rather than just endorsing sin.

Chris
Well, yeah, because kids probably, left to themselves would think that playing with knives are fun. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah yeah yeah. Or doing anything dangerous.

Chris
Fireworks, right.

Chris
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And we as parents have to say, it reminds me of that clip that was going around social media on Andy Griffith back in the black and white days. Oh yeah. When when guys talking to Andy and says, well, who’s to say that? That the child’s way isn’t better? And then Andy, Andy jumps in and says, well, that’s not that’s not for a child to decide. He said, that’s for the parent to decide, right. Because children run to anything shiny. Yeah, right. That’s true. And it’s like and it’s like there’s so sugary.

Jeff
Right?

Chris
And there’s so much wisdom in that. Right? Yeah. And that and that’s by the way, that is probably the strongest message, right? Not to co-sign and validate just because our child has feelings and thoughts that that are, that are bad. Yeah. You know.

Jeff
There was a comedian recently who said, I’m so glad I didn’t grow up in these days because when I was a little kid, I wanted to be a pirate, but thank God nobody’s scheduled. My parents didn’t schedule him. I had my leg cut off. My I cut out.

Chris
Right, right.

Jeff
Right. It’s just it’s crazy right now. How many people think we’re just supposed to give our children what they want, right? Or what they think their preferences are today, as opposed to understanding? We have responsibility to mold our children and develop them towards truth and towards what God has for them. Right. And so that’s that’s part of that warning, I think, that Jesus has for us.

Chris
So that’s awesome. Yeah. Well, that looks like a good place to wrap it up. And we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.