Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff:
Wesley, we are back. And man, we are so excited to be here today for another episode of The Bible Guys. And so I’m Jeff Forster. I’m one of the co-hosts. And this week, as my guest co-host, I have the formidable Wesley Woods. That’s who I have with me.

Wesley:
Almost sounded like an abominable snowman. Formidable.

Jeff:
Yeah, the intellect of this man is beyond compare. So very, very excited about having you today, Wesley. Yeah, good to be here. And we always have interesting segments. Yes. And so in this one, what is today’s segment?

Wesley:
I don’t have it in front of me, I’m sorry. This one is, oh, this is good. What’s the most embarrassing moment you’ve had while trying to adapt to local customs or traditions while traveling? Oh my goodness. Oh, this is good. I have one of these too. Oh, go ahead.

Jeff:
Do that.

Wesley:
Well, the one that I can think of is in a couple of them because I didn’t understand. So when my wife and I first got married, we took a cruise. One of the stops in the, uh, on the Caribbean cruise was, um, Cozumel. So we get to Cozumel, we get off the boat and there’s a restroom. So I’m walking to the restroom, but there’s a lady outside and she’s holding out her hand for like money. So I’m like, okay, what is happening right here? I don’t understand what this is. And so, but then later I realized they don’t have kind of like a municipal department where people go out and clean up things. So it was this lady’s responsibility to clean that restroom. So you would give her some change, but just with the culture, I just didn’t understand, like, why is she asking, people for money outside the bathroom. This seems a little shady. I don’t know what this is. The other one would be in Africa when we went to Togo, understanding how waving. So in America, we wave a certain way, but depending on how you wave there, it means come here. So we had to be told, like, hey, watch how you wave, because if people keep coming up to you, it’s because you’re telling them to come here.

Jeff:
The way that you’re waving. Yeah. Yeah. Those are funny. The bathroom, the restroom attendants are always, it’s an odd thing because we don’t see that a lot. But they usually are responsible for cleaning. Usually the restrooms that have restroom attendants are cleaner. The ones who don’t, they’re abominable. So let me see. So funny things, because this whole, today’s talk or discussion we’re going to have is about how Joseph’s brothers are traveling to Egypt, right? And so she’s asking us traveling questions. So I’ve been in a lot of countries and I do a lot of cross-cultural work Maybe one of the most embarrassing things. I didn’t know it at the time. It was afterwards. I was really embarrassed about it We had a meeting in Egypt with the Pope of the Coptic Church. Yeah, so this is the very important meeting, right? This is the oldest um, existing church, uh, group or denomination in, uh, Christian history. So St. Mark started the Coptic church or planted the first church in, uh, Alexandria, Egypt 2000 years ago. And so this is the oldest of all of the church denominations. And so here he is. I mean, Pope Tawadros took time to meet with us, and it was a big deal. And we were talking about serving orphans and widows in Egypt. So it’s an important meeting. I was traveling, thank God, I was traveling with a friend of mine who’s Egyptian, and he kept tapping my foot. And just enough, like forcefully enough that I’d put my foot back down, I’d put my foot on my ankle, on my knee or something, he’d tap my foot and I’d put it down. And I just thought it was in his way, he was afraid that I was gonna get his pants dirty or something, right? It wasn’t, it turns out it’s incredibly offensive to show the bottom of your foot. to a person in Egypt, like vulgar. It’s like flipping the bird to him, right? And so here I am, I probably did it seven or eight times to the Pope, where I’m showing the bottom of my foot. He’s trying to tell you, like, put your foot down. So Pope Tawadros was very, very, very gracious, never even acknowledged it. But my Egyptian friend kept saying, so we leave, and he said, I’m sorry for hitting your foot, but that’s really vulgar. You can’t do that. I was a little embarrassed about that one. I’ve also had multiple times where I got in a situation I just couldn’t get out of where I had to eat some really horrible food. And, you know, I’m embarrassed because I just can’t stop. I have to eat it and I can’t figure out how to get out of it. I know your favorite. Yeah, no, we’re not going to talk about it. Yeah, don’t say those words. It turns my stomach to think about it. But yeah, so there’ve been a lot of those kinds of moments. I would say just about every time I’m overseas somewhere, I wind up stepping in it somewhere at some moment. So it’s funny. Well, good. Well, today we are continuing with the story of Joseph. And I was looking this up, by the way. So Joseph, I was just in Egypt about a month and a half ago, and I’ll be back in Egypt again in just a couple of months. And so on one of the things we took a day, we had like a half a day and we went to the pyramids in Giza again. We were with a friend who’d never seen the pyramids before. And so that’s like my third or fourth time to the pyramids. But we took this guy had never been there. And I was with a guide and you can see from Giza, there’s a point where you can look down south to what is Saqqara. Saqqara is near Memphis area. And Saqqara was where the original pyramids began to be built. So they were step pyramids and there’s a big cemetery there. That’s about like 15 miles away, but you can see if it’s clear, you can see it. And then there’s some other towns that were really, really important. And he pointed in a direction and he said, and you know, right over there is where the biblical character Joseph was. And they found some storage and some things like that. And he said, I think it’s in, so he’s an archeology expert. And he goes, I think there’s a legitimate argument that this may be a part of the storage process for the pharaoh of that time, he said this would have been probably the 12th dynasty, very likely, and he said perhaps the pharaoh Akhenaten. There’s a couple others, Soser, there’s a couple of others that maybe they said, but in his opinion, as a quasi-archaeologist, he was saying I think it’s not far off to say this 12th dynasty may have been the time and that Joseph was a part of that famine, because there seemed to have been some kind of a famine during that time. So it was kind of interesting that, hey, a non-Christian guy acknowledges this Joseph character. Now, I don’t know that we have really strong archaeological evidence of finding Joseph yet, but it was interesting that this guy had an openness to the idea that Joseph was there. And I hadn’t articulated that I was a Christian pastor up until that point. So he wasn’t doing it just for my entertainment. He was just mentioning, hey, as you look that way, that’s probably Yeah, that’s interesting. So, you know, there, there are historians that, that really believe that this is a true story and, um, seems to be consistent with things that we know happened at different times throughout the Egyptian, uh, history. And perhaps there’s one or two times during Saucer’s, uh, um, uh, rain or during Akhenaten’s rain, very, very easily could have been either one of those. So, uh, and it’s consistent with this about 1880, something years before Jesus came. So anyways, here we go. We’re going to continue to read. And the passage we’re reading today is Genesis 42, and we’re going to read one through 38. So basically the whole chapter here, and it says, when this famine does hit. And then they’re starving in Israel or Palestine at that time. And it says, when Jacob heard that the grain was available in Egypt, he said to his sons, why are you standing around looking at one another? I’ve heard there’s grain in Egypt. Go down there and buy enough grain to keep us alive. Otherwise we’ll die. So Joseph’s 10 older brothers went down to Egypt to buy grain. But Jacob wouldn’t let Joseph’s younger brother Benjamin go with them for fear some harm might come to him. So Jacob’s sons arrived in Egypt along with others to buy food, for the famine was in Canaan as well. Since Joseph was governor of all of Egypt and in charge of selling grain to all the people, it was to him that his brothers came. When they arrived, they bowed before him with their faces to the ground. Joseph recognized his brothers instantly, but he pretended to be a stranger and spoke harshly to them. Where are you from? he demanded. From the land of Canaan, they replied. We have come to buy food. Although Joseph recognized his brothers, they didn’t recognize him, and he remembered the dreams he’d had about them many years before. He said to them, you are spies. You’ve come to see how vulnerable our land has become. “‘No, my lord,’ they exclaimed. “‘Your servants have simply come to buy food. “‘We are all brothers, members of the same family. “‘We’re honest men, sir, we’re not spies.’ “‘Yes, you are,’ Joseph insisted. “‘You’ve come to see how vulnerable our land has become.’ “‘Sir,’ they said, “‘there are actually 12 of us. “‘We, your servants, are all brothers, “‘sons of a man living in the land of Canaan. “‘Our youngest brother is back there “‘with our father right now, “‘and one of our brothers is no longer with us.’ But Joseph insisted, as I said, you are spies. This is how I will test your story. I swear by the life of Pharaoh that you will never leave Egypt unless your younger brother comes here. One of you must go and get your brother. I’ll keep the rest of you here in prison. And then we’ll find out whether or not your story is true. By the life of Pharaoh, if it turns out that you don’t have a younger brother, then I’ll know you’re spies. So Joseph put them all in prison for three days. On the third day, Joseph said to them, I am a God-fearing man. If you do as I say, you will live. If you really are honest men, choose one of your brothers to remain in prison. The rest of you may go home with grain for your starving families. But you must bring your youngest brother back to me. This will prove that you are telling the truth and you will not die.” To this they agreed. Speaking among themselves, they said, clearly we’re being punished because of what we did to Joseph long ago. We saw his anguish when he pleaded for his life, but we wouldn’t listen. That’s why we’re in this trouble. Didn’t I tell you not to sin against the boy? Reuben asked, but you wouldn’t listen. And now we have to answer for his blood. Of course they didn’t know that Joseph understood them, for he had been speaking to them through an interpreter. Now he turned away from them and began to weep, and when he regained his composure, he spoke to them again. And then he chose Simeon from among them and had him tied up right before their eyes. Joseph then ordered his servants to fill the men’s sacks with grain, but he also gave secret instructions to return each brother’s payment at the top of his sack. He also gave them supplies for their journey home. So the brothers loaded their donkeys with the grain and headed for home. But when they stopped for the night, one of them opened his sack to get grain for his donkey. He found his money in the top of his sack. Look, he exclaimed to his brothers, my money’s been returned. It’s here in my sack. And then their hearts sank. Trembling, they said to each other, what has God done to us? When the brothers came to their father Jacob in the land of Canaan, they told him everything that had happened to them. The man who was governor of the land spoke very harshly to us, they told him. He accused us of being spies, scouting out the land. But we said, we’re honest men, not spies. We’re 12 brothers, sons of one father. One brother is no longer with us, and the youngest is at home with our father in the land of Canaan. Then the man who’s governor of the land told us, this is how I will find out if you’re honest men, leave one of your brothers with me here and take grain for your starving families and go on home. But you must bring your youngest brother back to me and then I will show you, then I will know you are honest men and not spies. And then I will give you back your brother, you may trade freely in the land. As they emptied out their sacks, there in each man’s sack was the bag of money he had paid for the grain. The brothers and their father were terrified when they saw the bags of money. Jacob explained, you are robbing me of my children. Joseph is gone, Simeon is gone, and now you want to take Benjamin too. Everything is going against me. Then Reuben said to his father, you may kill my two sons if I don’t bring Benjamin back to you. I’ll be responsible for him and I promise to bring him back. But Jacob replied, My son will not go down with you. His brother Joseph is dead, and he is all I have left. If anything should happen to him on your journey, you would send this grieving white-haired man to his grave.

Wesley:
So there we go. Yeah, I think it’s hilarious how Joseph doesn’t disclose who he is. I love that part. So I realize that the brothers, they immediately fell down to bow before him. So they didn’t recognize, and they haven’t seen him in years. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff:
And they’re certainly not expecting to see him in this situation.

Wesley:
So it makes sense how they don’t recognize initially that it is him. And then he’s speaking through an interpreter also. So it all makes sense why they were a little confused, but how he kept stringing them along little by little is just hilarious to me.

Jeff:
Well, the Bible had also shown earlier that the Pharaoh put fancy robes on him, put gold on him. Very likely he adopted the image and the look of the house of Pharaoh, which would have been a painted face. It would have been fancy headgear. He would have looked very, very, very different. And then he’s a full grown man at this point. right? So there’s that element too, as opposed to being a teenage boy. And they just, so he’s speaking harshly through an interpreter. He’s just yanking their chain. They just don’t know. But I think it’s super interesting. This is his opportunity to have punished his brothers. Yeah. Right? You know, he had the power. This is revenge time. It could have been. He could have killed all his brothers and gone and rescued his dad. Yeah. Right. And the rest of the household. But he didn’t. Instead, here he still is a guy who loves his family. He wants all the children and their extended family. He wants them to live. So he finds a solution and he sends them all back. Go back. Take the food now. Don’t wait. Take the food now. Save your families. Just bring my little brother back. It’s interesting, you know, because he hadn’t met Benjamin yet. Benjamin was born after he was sold into slavery, and so he wants to meet this brother of his. He’s still a family guy. There’s something about that.

Wesley:
Yeah, in verse 27, when it says, but when they stopped for the night and one of them opened his sack to get grain for his donkey, he found his money in the top of his sack. So essentially the money that they were using to buy the grain was given back to them. Right. And when I first read that, Jeff, I thought about our interaction with God in the sense that God doesn’t need our money. You know how sometimes people are hung up with giving tithes and offerings and different things like that. God isn’t after your money. God’s after your heart. He has no need for it. God’s a spirit. What does he need with your twenty dollar bill? Right. You know what I mean? He, he, he in, in his, infinite wisdom in eternity. He doesn’t need what you have here on Earth. That’s exactly correct. So I kind of looked at that with this, how the what they were going to give was returned back to them because it was almost kind of like a heart issue. The same way how when we give money to God, he really doesn’t need our money. That’s not why God is having you tithe. Your tithe is to show that God ranks first place in your life. It’s not about the money. So I just kind of thought about that as kind of like a comparison, a metaphor, whatever you want to call that, and how God really doesn’t need what we have.

Jeff:
And it was given back to them here. So instead we have to think of when we bring our tithes and offerings to God, partly the idea of a tithe is it’s rent for living on the planet. That’s really, God said, hey, I gave you 100% and I want you to bring 10% back. But Jesus said that where your treasure is, that’s where your heart is. And so it’s not about what God needs as far as money, it’s about where the heart is. And you can kind of see the heart of Joseph in this time, and the heart of his brothers. His brothers say, hey, we’re trying to be good guys. We’re not trying to be bad guys, we want to be good guys now. And Reuben can’t help but say, I told you so. I was the one who didn’t wanna do this. I told you so. And here they are, this is somewhere between 13 and 15 years after, I think the belief is, or maybe even the Bible states that Joseph was 17 when he was sold away. So this is like 13 years later, 14 years later. Well, you add seven years to when he became the leader. So he’d be 37, so this is more than 13 years. But anyways, he… Joseph is seeing this family issue and he’s not exposing… I think he hasn’t even figured out what he’s going to do yet, but he immediately dismisses, I’m not going to be violent against them, but I’m going to put the fear of God in them. So he puts them in prison, he threatens to ruin their lives, and then finally he’s like, okay, I’m just going to keep Simeon back and the rest of you guys have to go. And so Simeon stays in jail and the rest of them go home and get dad and say, hey, what do we do? And there’s the money is in the bag and the risk of that, we’re all dying now. That’s what’s gonna happen. The way that Joseph is kind of, It’s not revenge, I don’t think, but there’s definitely consequences to how they had treated him. I think it’s kind of a funny thing.

Wesley:
And with the brothers, going back to verse 27, I think about also the idea of when God blesses you when you don’t deserve it. And I can think of times in my life where God blessed me and I clearly did not deserve it. I think of one in particular, so no one judge me when I tell this story, but in high school, I got into a fight in English class and it was a knockdown. Well, I felt justified, Pastor Jeff. Yeah, you probably were. Well, he, the guy wrote my name next to, um, it was a picture in a National Geographic book and he wrote my mom’s name next to it. Oh no. The fight was on.

Jeff:
Good for you, Wesley.

Wesley:
The fight was on. Good for you. But here’s the thing. So I went to a private high school and you know, they have zero tolerance for fighting. You get kicked out. Yeah. My English teacher, I’ll never forget her, suddenly got a lot of amnesia about, because she knew what was going to happen, got amnesia about who threw the first punch and all of that stuff. So she saved us. Had she not gotten amnesia, so to speak, we would have both probably been permanently kicked out, you know. Would have changed your trajectory of your life. Yeah, it would have changed my trajectory of my life. So that was definitely a time where God blessed me and I did not deserve it.

Jeff:
Well, hey, you were protecting your mother’s integrity, so buddy, that’s… My dad was not happy.

Wesley:
He was like, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. You got into a fight over a picture?

Jeff:
That was a fun night, that night. I would have paid money to see that fight, though. Yeah. So then there’s another one too. I think it’s really phenomenal because the Bible highlights the fact that he remembered the dreams that he had. Yeah. Right? That God did fulfill after all that time. Yeah. How hard it was, how all the struggles that he had. He was lonely in a land where he didn’t speak the language. He was abused. He was a slave. He was then elevated, he had opportunity, and then he was lied about, and his reputation was ruined, and then he’s in prison, and he doesn’t give up, he keeps serving, and then he’s elevated inside the prison. and then he’s forgotten. Somebody makes promises and they break their promises. It was years later that he finally gets an opportunity to get before the Pharaoh. And then at that point, all those times, he just kept serving God. He kept doing the right thing. He was moral and upstanding. I can’t control the circumstances in my life, but I can control my responses to them. And I can control how I make my choices. I can’t control what happens to me, but I can decide I’m gonna be a great person anyways. And that’s what happened is that Joseph was ready when God gave him the opportunity. And a lot of people think, oh, I’ll be ready when God gives me the opportunity, but they’re not doing anything to prepare. Joseph was leading, Joseph was walking with God, Joseph was doing all… And he was developing his skills so that he really was ready. Yeah. When he led a household and the household thrived, preparing, storing up food, all those kinds of things. He led a prison situation and the prison thrived. He learned how to lead difficult people. And then now all these things, he developed all these skills. And so when God gave him the opportunity, he was ready. Yeah. And then God then has his brothers come and they do bow down to him.

Wesley:
Yeah. And maybe that’s why certain things don’t come into our lives because we’re not ready. And then we’re constantly asking God, God, why, why, why is it taking so long? And I could imagine the angel scratching their head like, you haven’t done anything.

Jeff:
Well, I just had a young guy ask me recently, he said, hey, I’m really praying about maybe ministry might be, I feel like God’s calling me to this. I’m not sure, what should I do? And I said, prepare, just prepare. You know, was it Yogi Berra that used to say, I find the more prepared I am, the luckier I get. And there’s something to that, right? So just prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare. And it might take four years, it might take, you know, I crammed four years into six and graduated in eight. That’s what I did, right? And so there’s something to that, just prepare, keep preparing, keep preparing, and then see if God doesn’t open the doors at the right time. And God did fulfill the dream he placed in Joseph. Yeah, he was faithful. Years and years and years later, certainly not on the path Joseph would have chosen, but God did fulfill his promise and fulfilled that dream. Yeah. So don’t give up and keep preparing. And well, tomorrow we’re going to wrap up, I think, this story of Joseph and we’re going to get through a lot more of it anyway. So we look forward to joining you again on The Bible Guys.