Transcription

Chris
Well. Hey, Dave, you’ve heard of the Golden Rule. Treat others the way that you want to be treated. Do unto others.

Dave Wilson
As you would have them do unto you. Yeah.

Chris
Have you always done that? Your whole life? My whole.

Dave Wilson
Life. I’m perfect at it. Maybe not with you, but everybody else.

Chris
Oh, hello, blow. Hey, that’s what we’re talking about today. Jeff’s out of town. So today, this is Dave Wilson. I’m Chris Zarba, and today we are the Bible guys. So Dave, today there is a segment called this or that which is like a which you would you rather which would you rather do. There’s only five questions that you just have to pick one. And you have to do it quickly, instinctively.

Dave Wilson
And there’s no right or wrong answer.

Chris
Well, it’s just your preference. It’s just like, get to know Dave. So here we go. Here it is.

Dave Wilson
You didn’t prep me.

Chris
These are just. Yeah, well I never prep anybody for anything like that. In fact, I haven’t read these myself. Oh, really? I’m hearing these for the first time. Yeah. Number one, would you? Because I’m answering them too. Would you rather have free Texas Roadhouse or free Olive garden whenever you wanted?

Dave Wilson
Texas Roadhouse I’m a steak man. Yeah, potato with butter. All the bad stuff for you.

Chris
Surprisingly, I’m Italian, which I. Olive Garden’s Italian, but I would rather have Texas Roadhouse two because I love it. I love it so much. By the way, the bread.

Dave Wilson
The bread is.

Chris
Great too, wouldn’t you say? When you and I meet, that’s probably the restaurant. Restaurant we meet.

Dave Wilson
At the most. We do meet there. The best, right? By AMC 30.

Chris
That’s right. All right. Question number two. Would you rather be surrounded by people who brag all the time or be surrounded by people who complain all the time? Oh, wow.

Dave Wilson
I thought this would be an easy one. Oh, that’s.

Chris
Hilarious.

Dave Wilson
I tell you what. I don’t want to say this, but brag all the time.

Chris
I complain if I have, if I have to, if I have to pick one, it’s brag because complainers will bring you down.

Dave Wilson
Oh, I can’t stand people that complain. Oh, and I hope I’m not that person.

Chris
But I hope so too. Although my son would say I am.

Dave Wilson
I feel like I’m around a guy right now that brags all the time. Okay, go ahead. I think you’re going.

Chris
To say complain. All right. Number three, would you rather live forever with an eyelash in your eye? Or would you rather live forever with spinach in your teeth?

Dave Wilson
Spinach in my teeth. Of course, I probably done that many times.

Chris
Oh, but eyelash in your eye, especially in your teeth. You can’t.

Dave Wilson
Feel it. That would be.

Chris
Horrible. Yeah, that’d be very terrible.

Dave Wilson
Spinach. You can just swish it around a little bit.

Chris
There you go. Okay. Uh, well, you can never get it out because it says forever.

Dave Wilson
Okay, I take that over. Eyelash.

Chris
All right, two more questions. Would you rather have a driver to take you everywhere?

Dave Wilson
I already do.

Chris
Or a private chef to make you all of your meals.

Dave Wilson
Private chef.

Chris
There’s no question.

Dave Wilson
Private chef I like driving, so I don’t need anybody to drive me around. Yeah. Private chef, and that would be sweet, dude. And driving around and Anne’s watching right now saying you’ve got one. Her name is Anne Wilson. Hey.

Chris
Uh, private chef driving around is sort of pretentious. Yeah. Private chef is like, I’m trying to be healthy. Yeah, yeah, right. And then number five, would you rather have every song you heard slowly turn into all star or every movie you watched slowly turn into Shrek? What a weird question.

Dave Wilson
That is strange.

Chris
That is a I don’t even know what that means. Slowly turn into like Shrek. Well, but All Star is from Shrek. Yeah, that’s a weird question. I think we I think we ought to. Just an all.

Dave Wilson
Star. What you doing, man?

Chris
Go play. Yeah.

Dave Wilson
Uh, I’m not sure I understand that question.

Chris
Yeah, we’re going to bypass that one. It was a lot of fun. But, Desiree, we don’t understand that every song slowly turn into all star. I guess what she’s meaning is less like the ear worm. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like, uh, only here. Either the movie I. If it’s that, I would rather just believe it or not, I’d rather do the movie because I love movie quotes as opposed.

Dave Wilson
Yes, you.

Chris
Do, as opposed to.

Dave Wilson
Yes, you do.

Chris
A song in my head. You’d probably rather do the song right.

Dave Wilson
You haven’t started watching, uh, suits, have you, on Netflix?

Chris
I’ve seen the whole thing.

Dave Wilson
I’m on. I’m on season seven. Yeah, and I am addicted. Harvey Specter is my hero. Yeah, but again, they quote movies left and right, and it’s so fun. Yeah.

Chris
But it went downhill after Mike left.

Dave Wilson
Mike leaves.

Chris
I’m just kidding. I was going to say Mike dies. You just. You just ruined it.

Dave Wilson
No, I no, he’s got to leave. Meghan Markle is, you know, marries Prince Harry. So I know she’s they go to Seattle. I’ve already read ahead but I’m not season eight. Do they make it all the way to the end or you’re not going to tell me?

Chris
I’m not going to tell you. Yeah. All right. So the point is, is that, uh, that’s a get to know Dave segment. Hopefully our listeners, uh, enjoyed that.

Dave Wilson
Get to know much about me there.

Chris
But you’re. Well, you’re a steak guy.

Dave Wilson
I am a steak guy. And I’m a music guy.

Chris
Yeah. There you go. So, uh, today we are jumping into Matthew seven seven through 14 where Jesus teaches, uh, a couple of different things. And apparently, out of all four gospels, this is the only time this is recorded, which is why we’re only covering one gospel today.

Dave Wilson
Yeah, just in Matthew seven, we’re going to go through, uh, from verse 7 to 14. Again, these are all Jesus words. It’s all in red letters in your Bible. Jesus said, keep on asking and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking and you will find. Keep on knocking and the door will be open to you. For anyone who asks, receives everyone who seeks finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Your parents. I’ll start over. Yeah. You parents, you parents. If your children ask for a loaf of bread, do not give them a stone. Instead, I’m going to start over. You parents. If your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead? Or if they ask for a fish, do you give them a snake? Of course not. So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give good gifts to those who ask him? Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you? This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. You can enter God’s kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow, and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

Chris
So I know you’re a music guy, man, and I guarantee you that when you read the phrase the highway to hell.

Dave Wilson
How did you know?

Chris
Because you were singing it.

Dave Wilson
Highway to hell.

Chris
Because you’re also a 70s music guy? Yeah.

Dave Wilson
You’re right.

Chris
So, um.

Dave Wilson
So, by the way, that’s where they got the the title, that song.

Chris
Yeah, they did.

Dave Wilson
From this phrase. And you talk about some heavy oh, truth from Jesus. It’s it’s what we just read.

Chris
Yeah. Well, let’s, let’s start at the beginning where he talks about asking, knocking, receiving. And basically he’s saying like, hey, if you knock, you’re going to the door will be answered. If you seek, you’re going to find, uh, if you’re not going to be open to you because everyone who asks receives, everyone who seeks finds, everyone who knocks the door will be open. And that those are metaphors and they’re general. That’s not.

Dave Wilson
True.

Chris
What do you mean?

Dave Wilson
It doesn’t happen that way?

Chris
Well, that’s what I was about to say. I mean.

Dave Wilson
Most people, I think, walk away from Christianity because they have asked, um, you know, for the healing, for the cancer to go away, for their marriage to be saved. And. You know, it didn’t turn out like Jesus said. You ask, you get, which is our interpretation. So help us understand what he means by this, because it doesn’t always go. The door doesn’t always open when you knock.

Chris
Yeah, I think it’s clear that the metaphor. But first of all, let’s back up and say Jesus often, uh, taught about the kingdom of heaven with metaphors. Right? Right. He would, you know, find out. Parables. Yeah. Parables and things. Object lessons that were near him. Fig trees, olive presses, all sorts of things. And I think that he’s speaking in ways that, uh, you know, that we can understand. And, and he’s starting with the fact that God answers. Right. But if you’ll notice, though, he doesn’t say he doesn’t always give you what you want, he doesn’t explain how he answers. Right. It says you receive, but he doesn’t say what you receive. And so he’s talking about how God always responds. God always pays attention. God always answers, but yet he doesn’t say what he does or how he responds. And then what does he do is he talks more about the intentions of a parent and what he’s really saying about the loaf of bread and a stone and the fish and the snake. Is he saying? Your heavenly father is not going to give you something bad. Now all he’s doing here is he’s talking about how God responds. God’s faithful in responding, and then God’s going to give you something good. He never gets specific. So I believe that these are principles. So for instance, if I pray that God give me a new car, give me that new car, not not just a new car with that new car. Right. And then all of a sudden, I don’t get it. And and we can go back and say, see, he doesn’t respond. And it’s like, no, no, no, he did answer your prayer. And the prayer was you’re not getting that new car. Chris
Right. And what he’s trying to do is he’s trying to place intention on it by saying that’s, believe me, trust me, that’s a good thing. It’s a good thing that you didn’t get that new car, that loan didn’t get approved, but that trust me, that was that was the best thing for you, right? Yeah.

Dave Wilson
It’s just, you know, as you know, it’s hard when it’s life and death. Mhm. It doesn’t go the way you hoped. Yeah. It could be a new car. It could be your son or daughter dying. Right. It could be the cancer doesn’t go away. I mean I, I watched Trey a couple weeks ago now it’ll be over a month ago. Talk about the cancer which.

Chris
Is our worship leader at our church.

Dave Wilson
Right. And I’m sure many of you were there that day. And he sang a song I’d never heard the day he announced that he had cancer by Cory Asbury. I just pulled up the lyrics because it’s let me read them to you, and if you miss that day, go back and watch it. It was such a powerful moment, but.

Chris
And by the way, that would be found on Heritage Church. Com and you would go into the message archive and you would actually look at the series.

Dave Wilson
Oh, yeah. What was that?

Chris
Uh, you know what? I’ll find it. Go ahead. You read you read the song.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. Listen to these lyrics because this is so how often life goes. Sometimes marriages don’t work and sometimes babies die. Sometimes rehab turns to relapse. And you’re left just asking why. And for all the prayers I’ve prayed, I still wonder if he’s real. If he is, how is he choosing who he does and who he doesn’t heal? I’ve tried to run from Jesus. I’ve started holy wars. I’ve tried. I’ve tried the patient waiting and the kicking down the doors. I’ve cursed his name in anger and with my fist raised to the sky. And in return all he’s ever been. Is kind.

Chris
That is a heck of an honest song. Yeah.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. And you know, you know, watching Trey walk through this is, you know, I think he sang that song again. I can’t speak for Trey, but he’s we’ve all felt that, you know, it’s like I thought he said if I ask I get if I knock at the door is open. And we tend to think what you were saying earlier, that means, you know, you do A, you get B, you pray and believe you get. And even what Cory Asbury’s getting at in the song is sometimes the cancer comes back, sometimes it doesn’t go the way you ask. That’s right. But the one thing that is true, and Jesus does get into that. If you as a human father, give your son what he asked for. I, who am a Heavenly Father, loves better than you ever could. As a human, I can be trusted. It may not be exactly what you ask you get, but I am a kind God, and even in the darkest valley you walk through, he will not let you walk alone. I think that’s as big a comfort as anything. You are never, ever alone, even if the cancer doesn’t go away. You know, I mean, even if your son or daughter or husband or grandparent dies, in some ways they just got promoted as hard as it is here. Mhm. They’re not they’re not grieving. Mhm. I mean they’re like wow.

Chris
You know uh you just quoted a song uh when I think of those things about God uh, doing, allowing things in our lives, uh, not granting the request that we want. I also think of another song. You remember that old news song song called Trust His Heart?

Dave Wilson
News boat news.

Chris
Boys news song.

Dave Wilson
Oh. New song.

Chris
Yeah. Do you remember that? Trust you remember the lyrics?

Dave Wilson
I just did a conference where their lead singer led worship. Oh, wow. Phenomenal.

Chris
That’s amazing.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. How did the words go?

Chris
Uh, sing it for us, Chris. Uh uh, so the chorus goes, uh, God is too wise to be forsaken. God is too good to be unkind. Uh, when you don’t understand. When you can’t see his hand. When you don’t see his plan. Trust his heart. That’s what. Liz. Good singer. It’s the. It’s the idea. It’s the idea of trusting God’s heart. Because that’s what really what he’s saying here, right? He’s saying like, the father is going to give good gifts and I’m going to give you good gifts. And how much more will I give you good gifts? So when you don’t understand trust, trust the God’s intention. Trust God’s goodness, trust who he is. But you’re right. When it’s a new car that’s easier to swallow than it is about cancer. Yeah, I think there.

Dave Wilson
Is also the aspect which.

Chris
Which, by the way, uh, Heritage Church comm. It’s week one of the series on July 30th called heritage at the movies. Creed three. Uh, and it’s toward the it’s the very end of the service, but go ahead.

Dave Wilson
Yeah, I was going to say. I think it’s easy. Um, when you knock. And you feel like the door isn’t opened, or you ask and you don’t get an answer, it feels like. Or the answer is no. I think we tend to quit. Um, you know, I think there’s an aspect here is I keep knocking, keep asking, don’t don’t be persistent. Mhm. Um, and again, it may be a long delayed answer. That could be the thing you’re asking for. It could come some day. I remember one of my mentors years ago said he prayed for his dad to come to Christ for 38 years. Wow. And one day he gets a call and says, Howard, sit down. He’s like, I’m not sitting down, dad. He goes, sit down. You’re going to want to be sitting for this one. And I’ll never forget. I just wept as I heard this story. He’s like for 38 years. I did not miss a day praying my dad would give his life to Christ. And his dad died just a few years later. But I thought, who keeps praying for 38 years? It’s easy to think, okay, I’ve been praying. It’s not going to happen again. It isn’t like you pray to get your wish, but it’s like, no, God is kind. God can be trusted. I’m going to keep asking, uh, I know a friend who, uh, is praying that her son comes to Christ and she gave up chocolate. Mm. And it’s been, like 25 years. Wow. And every time, like. Yeah, just have a little piece of chocolate. She’s like, no, I’m praying. And this is my just. I’m fasting to God that God someday will reach my son for Christ.

Chris
And which is which is a form of fasting. She’s fasting from something she loves. Mhm. Uh, and so that’s one of the world’s longest fast huh. That’s unbelievable. It’s been a while. Um, yeah. That’s amazing. And, uh, and I think that there’s, uh, you know, another scripture in the Bible as well. It’s one of my favorites where he talks about the kingdom of heaven is like a man who knocks, you know, vigorously on the door and says, rise up. A neighbor has come. Please bring me a loaf of bread. And he says, but we’re sleeping. He says, come back another time, he says, and yet, because of the man’s persistence, he will get up, and he would give him what he wants. And he said, so it is with your heavenly father. So pray so you know. So it tells us prayer matters. God says, pray audaciously. Pray. You know, just like the man, just because of his audacity and because of his, uh, you know, just tenacity, you know, just to pray. And so pray, pray big and pray consistently because, uh, God can be moved on our behalf.

Dave Wilson
Do you want to hear a great story?

Chris
I do.

Dave Wilson
Uh, always. I didn’t think of it till you just said that when we first moved to Detroit. Um, we I mentioned earlier, we were on staff with Athletes in Action. We had to raise our own support. And the way it works to this day is if you raise enough support, you have donors sending in monthly checks. You get a paycheck. But if it ever if your account with at that time crew or athletes in action goes in deficit, you don’t get a paycheck. Wow. And on our wedding day, I said to Ann, I will never let our account go in deficit. I’ve met staff members who were like, you know, we didn’t have enough support and we went months without. I’m like, I’m never letting that happen. Well guess what? We finished seminary in California, we moved to Detroit and we are in deficit and we are in a new city where I know nobody. And so and we’re $25,000 in deficit, so we’re not getting paychecks for several months unless I can raise 25 grand. And this was the 80s and 25 grand to me was like $1 million. Yeah, this could be a long story. I’ll cut to the chase. So I am going to any church in Michigan that will invite me, and I preach and then say, hey, by the way, we raised our own support. Would you consider becoming a financial partner with us? And I’m losing hope because nobody’s given and I don’t know anybody. I’m in a new state. Yeah. No doubt. And I have this double bind of I work for the Detroit Lions and they all think millionaires are giving me money, right? I never asked the players for money and the organization didn’t pay me. Dave Wilson
So we’re in deficit and it’s been 2 or 3 months. And finally, Chris, I say to Ann, I say. You know, we always said, If God calls you, God provides. God’s not providing. I think it’s time he’s calling us out of ministry. And I had a marketing degree in college, so I’m like, I’m going to go into business, you know? And I said, giving God one more week. And so I’ll never forget, dude, I go to speak to some church, I don’t know Waterford. I didn’t know what Waterford was. And I’m driving home back then. There’s no digital. So they they give me little cards. Right. And they’d write on there. And so I’m driving home and I’m looking at these cards as I’m driving and out of like 60 cards that were turned in, guess what was pledged to our ministry? 25,000, $5 a month. Some lady said, I’ll give you $5 a month, $60 for the year out of 60 cards. All the others were, give me a call or I’ll pray for you. I am so discouraged. I’m like, we’re done. You know? We’re like, it was like Sunday and like Wednesday was the deadline. Like, if he doesn’t raise it by Wednesday, we’re moving on to a business. And so I get home and I’m literally mad, dude. I’m like, God’s not taking care of us. And Ann’s like trying to be the good wife. We had a little baby and we are broke. And I’m like, we got to move on, you know? And I’m just sort of. And she goes, well, I went to this church today while you were at that other church speaking, and I met this lady in the lobby and she asked us what we do. Dave Wilson
And somehow I told her story and she said, you need money. You should have your husband call my husband. And she hands me this three by five card, and it has a name on it. And I go, you want me to call some guy that you didn’t even meet? You met his wife and she goes, yeah, she said he might be interested. I took the card. Chris and I threw it. Just threw it. Wow. That’s how mad it was. Like I’m about to call some guy, some lady you met in church, and we put our little boy, CJ, down to bed at night in his crib, and I go in my little office. We were renting a house over in Lake Orion, and I’m sitting there and I’m like, God. What are you doing? You know, we’ve been for months, and I guess you’re calling me out of ministry. I don’t know what you’re doing. I looked down, and there’s that name. Ivan. French phone number. I’m just looking at him like I’m not calling that guy. I felt like God saying, give him a call. Why not? So I pick it up. And you. You remember these phones, right? Zinc. Yeah. Rotary. That’s how I called him. And I am not exaggerating when I say this. Here’s how he answered. Oh, hey, Ivan, my name is Dave Wilson. My wife met your wife, Ruth today at church, and she thought maybe I should give you a call. What for? I mean, he’s the just gruff. Yeah. Mean guy. Not very.

Chris
Positive.

Dave Wilson
It was not positive. And I said, well, you know, uh, my wife and I are on staff with Athletes in Action. We’re raising some financial support for our ministry. Could we get together? And I could sort of share with you what I do. He goes, no, we can’t get together. What do you need? I go, no, Ivan, you know, my whole goal was get an appointment, right? And you’re trained to do that, you.

Chris
Know, just right.

Dave Wilson
And so I’m like, well, you know, couldn’t we just meet sometime? No, I’m not interested in meeting. What do you need? I go, well, we need to raise some money. How much? And he’s, like yelling at me. He was just mean. I wanted to hang up so bad. I’m like, please get this phone call over. And so, Chris, I am so afraid to say $25,000 because it’s like $1 million. So I don’t even want to say it. Yeah. And I go, well, it’s pretty significant. Give me a number, Dave. And I’m like, well, he goes, give me a number. And so I literally like 25,000. I was just afraid to say it. He goes, okay, I’ll call you back. Click. And he hangs up. And that was the conversation. I remember I walked out of my office and I said to Anne, I go, that was a waste of time. That man is the meanest guy. Who was this woman that thought he’d be interested? She goes, well, she was really nice and it didn’t ring. The phone rings like five minutes later, we’re still in conversation and I’m yelling like, I can’t believe I called some guy. And I go, you know, there’s no caller ID back there. It was like, who is this? Hello? Yeah. Dave, this is Ivan. Oh. Hey, Ivan, thanks for calling back. We got you. I go, what? He goes, I called my business partner, Jim. He’s going to give five. I’m going to give 20. Come get the check tomorrow. Here’s the address. Click.

Chris
That’s it.

Dave Wilson
I go to his as his, uh, office. He was an advertising exec. He was one of the, uh, the founding the founders of 40 people who helped us start Kensington Church. And he handed me a check for $25,000.

Chris
And that I.

Dave Wilson
Am sitting here with you. Almost 40 years later in ministry. Because you keep knocking, you keep. And I’m not saying every time that’s how God answers, right. But I remember telling that story in the chapel at his funeral, and his daughter came up and they’re like, we never heard that story. I mean, I’m getting teary thinking about it. It’s like, I guess the moral story is you never quit. You never give up. God has got you. It may not be a check like that. It may not go the way you want. But if I’ve learned anything, it’s like, keep knocking, keep asking. God’s in control. And he may have wanted us to go a different way, but obviously he didn’t. Yeah. And here we are. You and I were have never met. Yeah, it would have never happened if there wasn’t a man named Ivan French who said.

Chris
I’ll even go further than that. What’s that? If you weren’t a part of my interview and a part of my first experience, there’s no way I would have said yes to this church.

Dave Wilson
You wouldn’t be in Michigan.

Chris
I said yes because of you. Yeah. So, hey, I’m sitting here because I have in French. Hmm. That’s that’s the truth. That’s the gospel truth. Yeah. Wow. Did that guy.

Dave Wilson
Tell that story today? But, wow, it just hit me that, you know what? Don’t don’t quit. God’s got you. Who knows what the end will be, but you can trust him. Wow.

Chris
Well, that’s a great place to end. And we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.