Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Well, hey, good morning Jeff.

Jeff
Good morning Chris. How are you?

Chris
Good. I met somebody in the church lobby, you know, in our church. Oh, isn’t that nice? Yes. Of course. And she said, would you at least sing Good Morning once a week? Good morning. Well, I’m not sure that I could sing it at least once a week, but I’m gonna do it today. Okay. Ready? Okay, okay. Good morning. Good morning. We talk all night through. Good morning. Good morning to you. So that’s it. There you go. Haha okay. That is for the person who saw me in the lobby who asked me to do that. So wow. Congratulations.

Jeff
The many talents of Chris Zarbaugh.

Chris
It’s part of the enigma that is me.

Jeff
Wow. So I just feel like we could wrap up. We can just pray and go home.

Chris
That’s right, that’s right. I’m not sure that people everybody’s day for that. No.

Jeff
Okay. All right Chris. Well, I have because you are a very principled man and a man of the laws. Um, is that true? I thought, I thought we would do law or flaw.

Chris
You thought?

Jeff
Yes. Yeah, well, Desiree thought it’d be a good idea, and I agreed. Exactly. It’s in my show notes, and that’s what I’m doing

Jeff
next. How about that? Thanks, Jeff. So thank you, Desiree. All right. So so it says there are so many weird laws in the US and around the world. So I’m going to give you five laws. And you have to decide if it’s actually a law or a flaw okay? Okay. In Alabama it’s illegal to spit on your neighbor’s yard law or flaw.

Chris
Oh my word, I’m going to say law because of tobacco spit. Yeah. And they decided to just eliminate all spit. Ah, I’m going to say law.

Jeff
That’s a flaw. I’m sorry.

Chris
Oh it is. Yeah.

Jeff
That was that was the one. I think that’s hard. In Florida. It’s illegal to sell your children.

Chris
What?

Jeff
It’s illegal to sell your children in Florida.

Chris
It should be a law.

Jeff
It is a law. So that seems like a good one. I’m gonna. I’m a big fan. Big fan of that one. I’m not a fan of all the laws. I don’t know, I saw a thing one time. I saw a thing one time that said we had over 100,000 federal laws or something like that. I don’t know how many laws we need as free people. Yeah. You know, to help us live better. Yeah. But I’m a big fan of that one. I think that’s a good one.

Chris
Gracious.

Jeff
Uh, it’s in Georgia. It is illegal to eat fried chicken with utensils.

Chris
There is no possible way that that’s a law.

Jeff
It says it’s a law

Chris
There is no way.

Jeff
So, hey, she is digging through the annals of law.

Chris
I will I will fight a government official with my fists. If somebody tries to barge in and tell me that I can’t eat a piece of fried chicken with a utensil.

Jeff
Yeah, well, that’s what says I’d be. So we’d have to dig into that.

Chris
This is America.

Jeff
I know we have to look that one up on Snopes. Okay, here we go. Number four way. In Kansas, it is illegal to throw snowballs.

Chris
In Kansas, it’s illegal to throw snowballs.

Jeff
Yeah.

Chris
Oh, okay. I, I’m going to go against my instincts and say it’s a law.

Jeff
It is a law.

Chris
No way. Yes yes yes I got it right. But I can’t believe I got it right.

Jeff
You’re two and two, first of all.

Chris
Wow. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

Jeff
So especially in Kansas, don’t they get a lot of snow in Kansas? I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know either.

Chris
My brother lives in Kansas but I’m not sure.

Jeff
So that makes you an expert on all things Kansas.

Chris
No I’m saying I’m not sure. I don’t even ask him. I don’t think.

Jeff
Okay. Here. Here we go. Yeah. In California, it is illegal to use an x ray device to determine someone’s ring size, law or flaw.

Chris
Well, that could be the dumbest thing that that’s ever been printed on that show sheet. But because I’m trying to guess these silly things. Yeah, yeah, I know that x rays are harmful. So I’m going to say law.

Jeff
It’s a flaw.

Chris
Oh darn it.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not sure that seeing this bone size matters. I think you’re looking for the meat on that bone

Jeff
Yeah. What’s going to determine the.

Chris
Well, what I was thinking is, is they would they would take an x ray to determine the current ring that’s on his hand that he can’t get off or something like that. Yeah, right. Because otherwise why would you x ray. Right. Like okay. Yeah, I guess I guess none of it matters, right? Yeah.

Jeff
It doesn’t matter. It’s a flop. Yeah. We’re trying to make sense of something that doesn’t make of something nonsensical Yeah. Which is, you know, we spend most of our life doing that, trying to make sense of nonsense.

Chris
Well, yeah, most of life is that way. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, exactly. Well, you were, uh, two for five today. Yeah.

Chris
Which is still. That may be fail, I think, isn’t it?

Jeff
Yeah. There’d be a 40%. Yeah, it’s really solid. It’s kind of like your junior year of high school.

Chris
Hey, I I graduated surprisingly high in my class and never attended.

Jeff
Yeah, well, yeah. So, you know, my senior year, just imagine how well you would have done if you’d applied yourself.

Chris
So here’s a here’s a confession. This boys and girls who are listening. This is a horrific thing. Do not do this, okay? It was really bad.

Jeff
It almost ruined your life.

Chris
Uh, yes.

Jeff
Yes it did.

Chris
Okay. Yes, yes. Okay. But

Chris
I missed 74 days my senior year because I didn’t feel like going to school. Oh, yeah.

Jeff
That’s terrible. That almost ruined your life.

Chris
Yeah, it almost ruined my life. It’s terrible. Don’t do that. But go to school. But I graduated with a 3.8 with missing 74 days.

Jeff
There’s Youngstown school district.

Chris
That’s it. That’s exactly it.

Jeff
There you go. Okay, well, there we go.

Chris
So you ruined your life. All right, all right. So, uh, anyway, we are going to pick up on Luke chapter 18. Uh, again, only found in the book of Luke. And we are talking today about Jesus, who again, he’s on his way to the cross. He’s heading toward Jerusalem, but he has a lot to say. He’s a lot to teach before he gets there. Right? And today he’s teaching about, uh, the two men who prayed. And this is actually a pretty, pretty cool one. Yeah.

Jeff
It’s kind of, uh, the difference between how I pray and how you pray, I think, is what’s going to be.

Chris
Thank you. Jeff, that’s such a great compliment.

Jeff
Here it goes. Luke chapter 18, verse nine. It says, Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else. What an amazing phrase. Yeah, great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else. Jesus said, two men went into the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other was a despised tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer I thank you, God, that I’m not a sinner like everyone else, for I don’t cheat, I don’t sin, I don’t commit adultery. I’m certainly not that like that tax collector. I fast twice a week and I give you a 10th of my income. But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow saying, O God, be merciful to me, for I’m a sinner. I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Wow. Yeah.

Chris
This to me is one of my one of my favorite, uh, clear pictures that Jesus paints toward the hearts attitude, toward the righteous versus the those who know that they’re sinners. Yeah. Remember that scripture? He says, I’ve come to call those. Uh, no, he said, I’ve come to call, not those who think they are righteous, but to those who know that they are sinners. That’s right. Right. That’s right. Because he says healthy people don’t need a doctor Sick people do. And so, uh, it’s it’s this, uh, and again, I know that in our conversations, you always give more credit to the Pharisee that I do. You’re like, oh, they were just good people trying to serve God. Maybe in some cases. But I think I think in a lot of ways, you know, these are the moments where I’m just like, I’m pretty sure Jesus looked at all the Pharisees and was like, you guys are all really bad, you know, for the most part. And, uh, and again, good, good. Uh, you know, uh, I don’t even want to say good people because I’m not sure they were, but but, but but anyway, the point is, is that, uh, people walking around with that high and mighty, uh, kind of thing, you know, I just, especially in church world, I just have this disdain toward it so much and, uh, really.

Jeff
Well, yeah, I don’t I don’t think any of our listeners have picked up on that.

Chris
I do so much so in this situation you’ve been to, I’ve almost jumped out of ministry a hundred times. Yeah. When I jumped in ministry in 1990. Good gravy. What was it, 93 when I well before that even that was just full time ministry. Right. But when I was like, you know, serving and everything else, like I almost jumped out of ministry a hundred times because of the Pharisees of the church. And they’re everywhere. Yeah. They’re everywhere they look. Yeah, right.

Jeff
Every people are not very self-aware So we don’t always understand our motives, which is what Jeremiah says at the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked who can really know it. So I don’t know that we really always know our motives. Um, and I think that they had in their system, their system was religion was the goal. Religion, not a relationship with Christ. So our resentfulness of this and Jesus frustration with them is the fact that they were pursuing exactly the wrong thing, thinking it was going to honor God. So they thought their holiness was their, you know, was the demonstration of the fact that they had finally achieved. And everybody should be like them.

Chris
So you’re saying he’s he was proud. The fact that he was proud.

Jeff
Yes. Exactly.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah, he was proud of the fact that he was proud

Jeff
Uh, look look how good I am. Right. That’s it. So the note here says, uh, in, uh, life Application Bible, the Pharisee did not go to the temple to pray, but to announce to all within earshot how good he was. The tax collector went, recognizing his sin and begging for mercy. Self-righteousness is dangerous. It leads to pride, causes us to despise others, and prevents us from learning anything from God.

Chris
The tax collectors prayer should be our prayer because we all need God’s mercy every day. Don’t let pride in your achievements cut you off from God, right? And I think that there’s a lot to be said about that. So you’ve got this guy, this Pharisee who comes in, uh, you’ve been to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the Temple Mount. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So the, the, the

Jeff
Western Wall where the, the Jewish people still go and pray. Yeah. They’ll they’ll write their prayers on little pieces of paper and stick them in the cracks. Did you put a a prayer in the cracks?

Chris
I did not, but, um, but for our listeners who don’t know what that is, uh, that is the last remaining wall of the actual temple that was destroyed in 70 AD.

Jeff
It’s the it’s the last remaining wall of the foundation.

Chris
Foundation? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you can see where the where the, uh, ancient rocks, ancient rocks versus the newer portion of the wall is. So they went from big blocks to smaller blocks.

Jeff
Yeah. If you’ve ever seen a picture of Jerusalem on top of what was the Temple Mount, there’s a gold domed, uh, religious building for. It’s a holy place for the Muslims, right. Muslim holy place. And on top of that same Temple Mount, there’s a mosque, the Al-Aqsa mosque. There’s a lot of fighting over that space. Right. But so the Jews really aren’t allowed up there very much. Even tourists aren’t allowed up on top very much. There’s only like 2 hours or 3 hours during the day that tourists are allowed to be there. Um, but then down along the wall on the bottom, this, this foundational wall, um, the Jews have access to. And so they’ll go and pray and they’ll weep and they’ll ask God for deliverance. So it has been for thousands of years the custom of people who lived close to go and pray at the temple. You don’t have to be at a holy place to pray, right? Because God is everywhere. As a matter of fact, if you are a believer in Christ, the Bible says you are the temple of God now. So to be able to have access to God, to be able to go pray, um, that’s, you know, you don’t have to be in a holy place, but there’s something special about it being in a special place and being able to pray. So anyways, he’s praying to be seen. He shows up in a public place. Is what’s happening here, right? Right. And, uh, the the tax collector, he shows up in the same area, but he’s not showing up to be seen. And so there is a really interesting thing, and this is what I was wanting to highlight, is that, um, in the King James translation. Yeah, it says that the Pharisee was praying to himself

Chris
Wow.

Jeff
Or praying with himself is what it says.

Chris
Oh, with himself?

Jeff
Yeah. Praying with himself. Yeah. Instead of praying with God. He’s he’s not, he’s not, he’s not having a conversation with God. He’s praying with himself. And I think that, uh, there’s a lot to be said about that, that concept. Right.

Chris
Because this says he prayed by himself and prayed this prayer.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah But I the in the King James it says he prayed with himself and it always jumps off the thing. I know that’s not what it means. It doesn’t mean that he’s only talking to himself. But the reality is he really was only talking to himself.

Chris
Right, right, right, right.

Jeff
There was no power behind that prayer, uh, because it was so filled with pride and self-centeredness.

Chris
So. Yeah. And you know what I mean? You know, it’s a thing when you think about your own sin and your own, uh, you know, depravity. Uh, you know, sometimes we can, you know, get lost in the balance between grace and and God’s judgment because God wants us to do better. He doesn’t want us to continually live like this tax collector. Right? Like, you know, God calls us to, you know, be more like the Pharisee in a lot of ways, right? In terms of in terms of obedience.

Jeff
Try to live a clean life.

Chris
Yeah, Right, right, right, right, right. You know, as opposed to cheating people and this tax collector with, you know, who knows what this guy has done, right? You know, he probably lives every day in shame just knowing he’s betraying his people and all these kinds of things. Because tax collectors, if our if our listeners don’t know, uh, they were Jewish people most of the time who betrayed their own people to work for the Romans, they bought their position from the Romans to be able to tax their own people. Yes. Unjustly. Right. Right, right. So they betrayed their family, their friends.

Jeff
So. So you would bid in auction to become a tax collector. And then, uh, what you would say is in your bidding, you would say, I’ll collect X number of millions of dollars, but anything you could collect above that you got to keep. So basically you were like the Mafia out there, just, you know, twisting arms and getting as much as you can You’re ripping off the people. The Romans were happy. As long as you delivered what you promised you’d deliver and they’d leave you alone. It was like legal extortion. Essentially, you could just take what you wanted to take from people. Yeah. And, uh, so that’s why the Jewish people hated them so much, is they were crooks from the minute they got the job.

Chris
Yeah. That’s that’s awful. Yeah, yeah. But but this man is obviously he’s there in the temple. He’s off at a distance, which means he, he comes to God recognizing that there is a God, right? Recognizing that he’s a, he’s a sinner. And and even though that God wants us to not stay this way, and he calls us, uh, to, uh, you know, to better living uh, there’s something to be said about, uh, Jesus knowing that Jesus is saying that that God embraced the heart and the posture of this man, you know? And so when I think about my own, my own self, I mean, I’m always I’m always going to strive to do better, to not be the sinner that I am right Uh, but at the same time, I find comfort in knowing that the heart posture is what God wants. God wants the heart, doesn’t he? Yeah, God wants the heart. So you know, and he wants the heart before even the obedience.

Jeff
So I think that the, the main idea of this is less on the behavior and more on the trajectory of the person. Yeah. The trajectory of the person who says, oh, I’m glad I’m such a holy person is away from God and towards themselves. Mhm. Even though he’s the one who lives like a, you know, a supposedly a holy life, right. His trajectory is not towards God. Whereas this sinner, we don’t know how often this guy shows up to pray this might be his first time or only time. Right. And uh, first time in only time are very, very similar meanings. But thanks for the insight. Um.

Chris
That’s funny. So they I met I met after this story. He never came back. Yeah, it’s funny.

Jeff
So he it’s the deep stuff. That’s why people keep coming back to this podcast is. Wow. I never thought of it that way before. His first time and his only time.

Chris
Did you ever hear Brian Reagan, the comedian? He goes whenever somebody says something dumb, he goes, oh, yeah, okay, slow down Copernicus. Yeah, let me write this down.

Jeff
I don’t forget it. So anyways, this we don’t know. But what we do know is this sinner, the trajectory in this moment for him was going to God and saying, I have nowhere else to go. Right? So he’s coming in, he’s asking for mercy and he’s saying he’s a sinner. So I think that this this story is less a commentary on their behaviors and more a commentary on the trajectory of of where their heart is. Right. Does that make sense to you? Yeah. So I don’t think he’s saying, oh, you Pharisees shouldn’t try to live such a holy life.

Chris
Mhm.

Jeff
Right. Um, and he’s not, he’s not, you know, throwing a fit about the behavior of Pharisees, you know, should a Pharisee even be in the temple? He’s not asking those questions Really. I think what he’s doing is he’s talking about the direction of that Pharisee is, God, I need your mercy because I’m a sinner. And the direction of the Pharisee, I said, Pharisee. The direction of the tax collector was, have mercy on me, I’m a sinner. The direction of the Pharisee was, I’m fine, boy, you’re so lucky to have me. God, right. You must be so happy to have me on your side. Because look at me, dude, I don’t sin. I’m not cheating, I don’t, you know, I’m so thankful I’m not like everybody else.

Chris
That’s what he said. That’s exactly.

Jeff
He literally says that, right? Right. You know, I think a lot of times we help God out a lot, right? We really think God’s lucky to have us right when we’re at our best.

Chris
Uh, you know, I talked with somebody yesterday, uh, a good friend of mine, and she was telling me about this situation, about her, you know, brother in law or something. Who who’s passing judgment on their family and saying, I would never do this, and you’re doing this and all these kind of things and I’m just going to get into it. But it was basically ridiculous, right? They were just they were saying things as if they were the most perfect people on the planet. Right? Right. Like, I can’t believe you. I would never do this. And I thought to myself, and I actually said to this person in response, I said, they do that every day, right? Like, like every day. There it is a ridiculous mindset to think that they’re above anything in what you have said, right? If what she’s saying is true, those people are ridiculous, right? And I think what it is, is it’s a challenge for all of us to, uh, to recognize, you know, when we see the fault in others, we have to recognize that we ourselves are sinners and we’re at fault Like, for instance, um, my my my father, uh, had a conversation with me, and he was he was talking about this, and he says, oh, you know, this, this woman is this way. And I can’t believe she’s this way. And I would never do that. And I said, right, you’re right, dad. I said, but here’s the thing. She’s great at some things that you’re horrible at, right? So, so so yeah you’re right. You are good at that. And she’s terrible at that. But then she’s really good at this and you’re awful at that. Yeah, right. I was like, so how is that different, dad? Right, right. You can’t be mad at one and then excuse the other.

Jeff
There’s none of us are perfect.

Chris
Oh yeah. Right. So you have to recognize like. Yeah, you’re right. Like, you know, you may not do the things that they do, which makes you, by the way, different people Right. Uh, but but you are just as bad. And if you don’t think that you’re just as bad, then you’re pretty delusional.

Jeff
So you have to balance this passage off.

Chris
Well, I mean, in God’s eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Where Jesus is saying that the best attitude is to come to God with a be merciful to me because I’m a sinner attitude. That’s what he’s saying. He’s highlighting that that’s the best way to come. And we, we, we counterbalance that with the book of Hebrews saying, because of what Jesus did for us, go boldly before the throne of grace. Mhm. So we have bold access. We should not come ashamed before God. We should come recognizing who we are, and we don’t deserve to be there. But he invited us to come to him, right. Yeah. And so if we can balance those two that we go boldly before the throne, that we come and we ask big asks, and we, we rely on him for for salvation and for forgiveness and for fulfillment and to help us fulfill the purpose that he has for us and to give us the power for living. And we go to him boldly, but without pride. We go to him recognizing we don’t deserve it. But for some reason, he’s offering it, right. Uh, have you ever had. I’ve had times when I didn’t really feel like, oh, no, no, let me pay for that. There’s been times when people were given things away and I wanted to pay for it. Yeah, right. Because I. Oh, you don’t need to pay for that. Let me, let me pay. Right. And there’s no reason why I should get a free one. Right? Except for the fact that you just wanted me to have it. And if I can come with that attitude, I. There’s no reason why God should do this. There’s no reason why God should care about me, but he does. If I can come with that kind of humility, that kind of humility gets God’s attention. And I think those prayers get answered.

Chris
Hey, you know, you mentioned real quick, I’ll just throw this in. This is a freebie for all those all of our listeners. There’s no charge for this

Jeff
Oh that’s excellent.

Chris
Um, uh, but you had mentioned we’re supposed to go boldly before God’s throne. So I think that’s what Hebrews 413 or 12 or 13, um, uh, those were my verses for when I did college ministry. So the our entire name was based on that. So we, we, we were on the third floor of this, uh, education building that we took over the third floor. So we named our ministry third floor. But it was the the meaning behind it was in the temple. The Holy of Holies was on the third level there level, uh, after the third set of stairs. Right. So, you know, you sort of to get to God, you sort of had to go up and then inward. Right. And so what I was talking about was we now have access to, uh, the throne of God, right

Chris
You know, the veil is right.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah.

Chris
So so I said, whenever you pray, whenever you enter into God’s presence. Welcome to the third floor. Yeah. That’s cool. That’s what we say. That’s cool. That’s kind of neat.

Jeff
Well there you go. So go boldly and go humbly at the same time. Yeah.

Chris
For sure. All right. Well that’s our time. So we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.