Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Welcome, everyone. Here we go. It’s good to be with you, Jeff.

Jeff
It’s good to be with you, Chris.

Chris
Yes. Here we are in the studio at nine in the morning, recording five podcasts. That’s what we do. We record five in a row, by the way. Okay. Which is why you. Well, you just ruined the mystique. Well, everybody knows because we’re wearing the same shirts. If they watch. Yeah, if they watch.

Jeff
Yeah. So it’s only half, half the people.

Chris
Well, for the other half, guess what?

Jeff
Guess what? We’re wearing the same shirt.

Chris
We were in the same shirts, which, by the way, is what the voice does. Did you ever notice that, like in the voice that have like four episodes and they’re in the same outfit? Yeah, right.

Jeff
So they get them.

Chris
Back to back to back. Yeah they do. Back to back. Yeah. So um,

Jeff
So we’re just cool like that.

Chris
We are cool. We’re like the voice. Yeah, yeah, this is the Bible, guys. So we I don’t know where that came from. So this, uh, segment today is called Bible verse or not.

Jeff
Oh.

Chris
Oh, no. It says you’re going to read five lines to Jeff and have him guess whether it’s a Bible verse or a quote.

Jeff
I think I got like a really bad score last time, didn’t I? Only get like two out of five or something?

Chris
I think it was.

Jeff
Yeah, I don’t.

Chris
Know, I don’t know.

Jeff
I always feel I always feel like it’s going to be bad anyway. Well, I mean.

Chris
How many verses are in the Bible?

Jeff
Uh, 30 something thousand, right? Yeah.

Chris
So that’s that’s hard sometimes. Yeah. All right, here we go. Here’s the first quote or the first thing his touch brought with it the strangest sense of relief. That pain had suddenly ceased.

Jeff
That’s not a Bible verse.

Chris
That is not a Bible verse.

Jeff
I didn’t think so.

Chris
Guess where it is from?

Jeff
I don’t know.

Chris
Uh, Bella said it, uh, as she was narrating in the book the Twilight movie.

Jeff
Oh, wow. So it’s from a Twilight? Yes. Movie. Okay, Chris
I guess from the book. Yeah. Uh, from from eclipse. Okay, okay. Okay. So here we go. Ready?

Jeff
Okay, here’s the next for one.

Chris
One for one. Okay. God helps those who help themselves.

Jeff
That is not a Bible verse.

Chris
That is definitely not a Bible.

Jeff
That was uh, Benjamin Franklin.

Chris
Hey. Bonus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I give you two points.

Jeff
Yeah, but it wasn’t. It was from Poor Richard’s Almanack. It wasn’t even actually straight up Benjamin Franklin.

Chris
Wow. Wow. So you know that one. Yeah. So we got one that you knew. Okay.

Jeff
God helps those. Who helps us.

Chris
I give you I award you two points.

Jeff
It was that the one God helps those who help themselves. Yep. So, um, on more than one occasion, I’ve asked people to quote a verse from stage, hey, somebody quote me your favorite verse. And that has come up where people quote that as a Bible verse.

Chris
Oh, way to put people on the spot. Make them look like fools. Yeah yeah yeah.

Jeff
No no no, it’s just, it’s funny anyways. Chris
Do you ever call on somebody that, uh, to pray in public and they have never prayed in public? Yes. Yeah, I’ve made that mistake before. Yeah. Then later on, they’re like, uh, thanks for that.

Jeff
If you ever go on a mission trip with me, I’m going to ask you to pray, right? Right. Yeah. All right. Number three. Okay.

Chris
Uh, the doors to the rooftop room were locked. They said he’s probably relieving himself in the restroom.

Jeff
That’s a Bible verse. Okay. Uh, and it was, uh, when Ehud killed King Edgar.

Chris
In the book of.

Jeff
Judges. Ding ding ding ding. There you go.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, you nailed it, I know it, you nailed it. Yeah, that’s.

Jeff
A funny one. So it says that, uh, the king was so fat. Yes. And, uh, Ehud was left handed. Yes. And he assassinates him in the in his upper chambers, and the knife got stuck.

Chris
Right in his fat.

Jeff
Yeah, in the fat. And then the King James says in the dirt came out. Uh, yeah.

Chris
Yeah. Okay. We’re going to move on from that one. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
But hey, as a kid, yeah, I loved that story. That’s how I knew that. Maybe stuck in the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And by the way, in back then, they didn’t have running plumbing. So why would his bathroom be upstairs? Go ahead anyways. Okay.

Chris
Some things to think about. Things that make you go. Hmm. Number four. Okay, let’s attack some innocent people just for fun.

Jeff
Oh. That’s a Bible verse.

Chris
It is?

Jeff
Yes.

Chris
Okay. Where is it from?

Jeff
Uh. Man alive. So the Bible warns a couple times in Psalms and Proverbs about being careful with your friends. So it feels like it’s one of those.

Chris
It is Proverbs 111.

Jeff
Oh, there you go.

Chris
So are you, uh, are you four for four.

Jeff
Four for four. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris
I’m feeling good today. That’s. Bring it Chris. And by the way, you haven’t coughed at all. Okay. Way to go.

Jeff
Well, thanks for bringing it up. Yeah.

Chris
That’s true. Last one. A liar will not be believed even when he speaks the truth.

Jeff
That’s Proverbs.

Chris
It is not. It is not a quote from the Bible. But I bet you it’s close because it sounds like a Bible verse. Yeah, yeah. I don’t know how to pronounce this guy’s name. How would you pronounce that?

Jeff
Aesop. Aesop. Aesop’s fables. Oh, yeah.

Chris
Yeah yeah. Of course. Yeah yeah yeah. I just didn’t know that’s how you spelled it. Mhm. Uh. That’s great. So, um. Yeah. You know.

Jeff
Those Aesop’s fables are from like more than a thousand years ago. Well yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so many of those little, you know, we’ve made cartoons out of them and children’s stories, they came from like, more than a thousand years ago. Yeah, it’s pretty amazing.

Chris
Well, so you got four out of five, and I awarded you.

Jeff
I blew two.

Chris
Points on one, so. Oh, yeah. You got five.

Jeff
Points. Yeah.

Chris
You’re even. Wow. Way to go.

Jeff
Well, I feel proud. I’m gonna call my mom as soon as we’re done.

Chris
You’ve earned your Bible Guys title today.

Jeff
Yeah. I’m going to call my mom, and she’ll be so proud of me.

Chris
Yeah. Put her on speakerphone. Yeah. Mom, I got four out of five. I am a Bible guy..

Jeff
I’m so proud of you. Hercules. Hercules!

Chris
I am enough. I am enough. All right, so, John, 1145 through 57, uh, we’re moving into Jerusalem, or Jesus is in the story. And this is where religious leaders are plotting to kill Jesus.

Jeff
Wow.

Chris
Yeah. Here we go. This is again John.

Jeff
Again, right? They’re always plotting to kill Jesus, right?

Chris
Only this time they’re gonna get serious about it. They’re gonna get a plan that actually happens.

Jeff
Okay, so here we go. Uh, John, chapter 11, verse 45 says many of the people who were with Mary believed in Jesus when they saw this happen. No lie, I would too. Mhm. Um, but some went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. They tattled on Jesus for raising a guy from the dead, right? That’s so funny. Then the leading priests and Pharisees called the High Council together. What are we going to do? They asked each other. This man certainly performs many miraculous signs. If we allow him to go on like this soon, everyone will believe in him. Then the Roman army will come and destroy both our temple and our nation. Caiaphas, who was high priest at that time, said, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t realize that it’s better for you that one man should die for the people than for the whole nation to be destroyed. He did not say this on his own as high priest at that time. He was led to prophesy that Jesus would die for the entire nation, and not only for that nation, but to bring together and unite all the children of God scattered around the world. So from that time on, the Jewish leaders began to plot Jesus death, and as a result, Jesus stopped his public ministry among the people and left Jerusalem. He went to a place near the wilderness, to the village of Ephraim, and stayed there with his disciples. It was now almost time for the Jewish Passover celebration, and many people from all over the country arrived in Jerusalem several days early, so they could go through the purification ceremony before Passover began. They kept looking for Jesus, but as they stood around in the temple, they said to each other, what do you think? He won’t come for Passover, Willie? Meanwhile, the leading priests and Pharisees had publicly ordered that anyone seeing Jesus must report it immediately so they could arrest him. So there you are. They’re getting serious.

Chris
Well, yeah. And for sure. And, uh, and by the way, uh, this thing stands out to me, and it always has. Ever since. I mean, I’m not kidding. I remember when I was, I just became a Christian, and one of the first things that I did was, you know, how people say, start in the book of John and move forward? Uh huh, uh, that’s just a common, you know, piece of advice to read the Bible. Yeah, well, I started I literally started in the book of John, got to chapter 11, and I remember reading this and I was like, I literally was just a Christian for just like a week. And I remember reading that. And so Caiaphas says, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t realize that it’s better for you that one man should die for the people than for the whole nation to be destroyed. And then it says this weird thing. He did not say this on his own. As the high priest at that time, he was led to prophesy that Jesus would die for the entire nation and all the different, you know, but also for everybody else. Yeah. And I thought to myself, like, wait a minute. So he. So Caiaphas thought that he was saying that on his own. Right. But but little did he know that he was led to say that. So then I thought, I wonder was like, was he in control of his own mind when he said that was he possessed by the Holy Spirit? And God made him say that? Then he realized, wow, I just said that. Right. Uh, you know, I just I remember literally, I’m not even kidding. When I was a Christian a week, I remember thinking like, wow. It baffled me that that we could think that we’re in control of our own thoughts and actions and, and, uh, and yet, uh, God has this divine plan, right? And we think we’re our own person, and yet God’s like, you know, hold my root beer. Yeah.

Jeff
Right. So. So what do you think? Was he possessed by the Holy Spirit in that moment was, uh.

Chris
No, I don’t think that any longer. I don’t think that he, like, you know, all of a sudden just came to himself and said, whoa, what did I say? Right. I think that I think that he, uh uh, uh, God knew that he that he was going to say such a thing to prophesy over the entire nation. And so, uh, I think that he used his own mind and his own, uh, you know, passion toward it. And I think that. God. Divinely um, uh, had, you know, can pointed all things to make him say that.

Jeff
I think he really did mean that Jesus was going to die for the entire nation. Um, and that God used that as a prophecy that he would die for the entire nation. Right? But Caiaphas, meaning he’s going to die for the whole nation was different than what God meant. Caiaphas to mean yes. Right? Yes. Right. So God used God. God led Caiaphas to this moment. All these circumstances have led Caiaphas to this moment, to where finally there’s a dawning on his mind. Because you remember, the high priests were mostly Sadducees. The Sadducees were the smaller sect, but they were very political. They bought their positions, usually from the Roman government. And so their mind was not typically a religious mind. It was a cultural religion. But they were more concerned about peace. They they just didn’t want problems with Rome. It was almost purely political for them. Even their religion was just a cultural thing. They it wasn’t a relationship with God. Although they didn’t believe in a resurrection, they didn’t believe in miracles. So if you have a if you have a religion that doesn’t believe in life after death or any miracles, what is your religion? It’s traditions for your culture. And so their concern was preservation for their culture. And they were subject to the most powerful military force in the history of humanity that literally could grind them into dust on their way to somewhere else. Right? That’s how small Israel was. And so they’re thinking preservation. And so in Caiaphas mind, it’s not religious for him. I think it was deeply religious for the Pharisees, but not for the Sadducees. And so he’s going purely political. It’s better that this guy die to save the whole nation, right? Yeah.

Chris
And he’s thinking, hey, uh, it’s political. He’s going to be the he’s going to be the sacrificial lamb. He needs to he needs to, you know, uh, what is it? Uh, the ends justify the means. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, sort of kind of thing. Right. That’s what he’s thinking. Well, how.

Jeff
Many movies have you seen where, you know, it’s better for the one guy to die in order to save the whole city?

Chris
Well, Star Trek.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Chris
Yeah. The lives of the many outweigh the life of the. What is it? The lives of the few or the one?

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. That’s, uh. And so this is this is the thing. And so I think that it was. God had Caiaphas in that place. All of these circumstances have brought Caiaphas to the point where his entire worldview was being challenged. Yeah. And God. Leverage the fact that he was the high priest and he makes this declaration, and God used that declaration as a prophecy. Yeah, that that’s how that went. It didn’t mean that he needed to be.

Chris
And by the way, that’s very consistent with, um, like, for instance, like when, when, when Jesus marches in and if you, you know, chapters here or maybe even a few in a few verses where he marches in on Palm Sunday, um, and, and they say, save us, save us. And they want him to be their salvation. And he’s like, yeah, I am your salvation. Just not in the way that you think, right, right, right. It’s very similar to that, isn’t it? Yeah. So it’s like it’s like they meant it another way. And Jesus is like, yes, I have come to save you, but probably just not in the way that you think. Which, by the way, uh, the integrity part of me and the movie buff, uh, part of me wants to now correct the Spock quote, it’s actually the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. So it’s not the lives.

Jeff
I was going to call you out on that. Well, I’m really glad.

Chris
I guarantee you, hundreds of listeners.

Jeff
Somebody was going to fire it off.

Chris
Somebody. Somebody was going to be like.

Jeff
That really happens.

Chris
Way to misquote it, doesn’t it?

Jeff
It happens. You’ll get we’ll get messages from people. Oh for sure. Yeah. For sure.

Chris
So um, and uh, and so yeah, it’s, it’s, that’s the part that stands out to me in this passage. Uh, but notice also that, uh, you know, they’re concerned not about the fact that Jesus is real, right? Right. Like like, hey, what are we going to do? Uh, if they continue to believe in him, what’s going to happen to us? Right? Right, right. So it’s not like. It’s not like they’re they’re going, hey, let’s pay attention to the fact that here’s a man who has raised somebody from the dead. It just doesn’t seem like that is on the table. Yeah.

Jeff
Right. So again, I think this this plays to, uh, their political and religious and educational bias. Do you think they believed it? No. Yeah. They didn’t believe it. So so the the Sadducees did not believe in miracles. Right. So either they were going to have to say everything about about my belief system just broke down, or somehow he’s doing tricks, right? They’re not denying that Lazarus walked out of the tomb. Right, right, right. Um, so I think a lot of people. Action. Yeah. That’s right. So I think a lot of people, uh, even today, we have been so brainwashed by our educational system or by our political worldview or by our, our families perspective on things that we have totally rejected, the things right in front of us. And that’s what’s happening here, right? And we we reject Christ. We reject the miracles. We reject the resurrection. We reject all these things even though they’re here for us to witness. Um, because we’ve been conditioned to not believe it. There’s a lot of people that are that way. And unless somehow the Holy Spirit’s able to break through, you’re going to stay that way. And that’s what happens with Caiaphas. Right? So that’s why we we pray all the time that the Holy Spirit would would prepare hearts and right would go before us. And the Holy Spirit does amazing things. But in this situation, Caiaphas stuck to his guns and decided, nope, my belief is a sadducee there is no resurrection. So something happened, right? But it was just a trick.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m gonna I’m gonna go on a limb here and, uh, uh, put myself at risk and do a confession here with you. So I have said often times, in fact, my whole entire career, uh, as a pastor, that I’ve said, I’m a skeptic, right. You’ve heard me say that, and I’ve said I’m just naturally skeptical. And I think that I think that it’s a part of my, um, wiring. But what’s really strange is when I take a spiritual gifts test, my number one spiritual gift, you know what it is?

Jeff
Is it faith? It’s faith.

Chris
And so it’s it’s interesting to me how it feels like once I decide to believe something, I believe it 100%. Right, right, right. So when things really, really, uh, uh, matter, when things when the when the stakes are really high, my faith is there right. And so it’s like, so that that is, uh, that is the good part of uh, of, I guess the blessing of, of of having that, uh, gift. Um, but at the same time, it’s interesting because I never doubt God, I just doubt people. Does that make sense? Right. So okay, so I believe that God can heal people. I believe that if, uh, there’s a healing service and, and, uh, and something happens, I believe that, uh, somebody can be healed, and, and I fully, 100% believe that. And yet, almost always I don’t believe people when they tell me.

Jeff
Huh?

Chris
I don’t know if you’re that way or not.

Jeff
Yeah, it depends on the environment, the circumstances. If if the healing service is a circus, yeah, I go, no, I don’t believe it.

Chris
So yesterday I was on Facebook and I read a post of a friend of mine who I grew up in high school with, and he’s a good friend and, uh, and. He and his wife. I met with them when I was home in Youngstown, Ohio, and, uh, and so she posted something about falling down the stairs, uh, damaging her vertebrae, uh, being, you know, not being able to walk. And then and then she described sort of like a circus type experience. Right. And, uh, and, you know, again, we grew up, uh, more on the conservative side. Right. So, so this would be more of the charismatic side. Uh huh. Uh, and the way she was explaining it was like, oh, my goodness. Like all that stuff is like, I turn it off if I see it on TV. Right? And then she says, it’s a miracle she’s been healed. And then and then and she even has the MRI to prove it. Now I know her personally, which means I believe her. Right? And yet I’ve continually have to fight my my thinking.

Jeff
That you’re bias that is that.

Chris
It’s not true. Like like I’m certain that some parts are true. I’m certain that, uh, maybe, maybe something else happened or something like this. Right? But really, was it because of the circus? Right. And so so there’s a part of me that, like, this is my confession. My confession is. And by the way, I don’t mean to offend anybody by saying circus, right, right. Because there are there’s obviously people who are listening who are very different than us. Right? They exercise faith differently. Uh, different denominations, all that we there’s no disrespect there. Uh, it’s just it’s it’s more so pointing out the differences of, uh, sort of where we sit. Right. So, so, uh, anyway, all that to say, um, I, I just, I have a hard time believing people, even when I know them.

Jeff
So you can sympathize a little bit with Caiaphas. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You get it? Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

Chris
And that’s. And that’s the reason why I even brought it up. Right. I brought it up because, uh, the idea of not believing in a miracle is, is not that far fetched. And I believe that a lot of our listeners, um, maybe some of them don’t even believe that Jesus can do those things. Right. And and, uh, and yet some people hear something like that and they immediately believe. And I don’t think it takes away from my faith. I think it has everything to do with my skepticism of mankind.

Jeff
Jesus says a couple of different times when he’s kind of frustrated. The followers, I’ve been with you, his disciples, I’ve been with you so long and you still struggle to believe, right? Yeah. So Jesus, I think, had patience with them. Yeah, he’d been with him a long time. Yeah. And they still gradually came to this place where they really believed what they were seeing, what they were hearing, what they were witnessing. It took them some time too. And so while he expresses a little bit of frustration that they’re not coming along quicker, he he’s still patient with them and didn’t dismiss them. He didn’t send them home. That’s it. I’m done. Just go home and go find some more disciples. He continued on his journey with them. And so I think that, uh, you know, God’s not offended by our skepticism. Um, as long as our skepticism doesn’t drive him away or drive us away from him. Right, but drives us to lean into him and go, God, show me this. Is this really true? Is this real? Right? Yeah.

Chris
So just for the record, for our listeners, you believe that God can heal like that?

Jeff
Uh, so again, I was the one who referenced the idea of the circus. So when you see people and they take off their suit coats and they’re wearing the suit coats around and people are falling all over the place, the music’s going crazy and everybody’s hopping up and down, that kind of thing. I think that there’s a tremendous amount of groupthink happening in that situation. We know that you take that, take the Jesus words out of that. And the same kinds of things happen in voodoo. The same kind of things happen in Hinduism, right, where you get these groups of people just freaking out and they believe all kinds of stuff, and then, you know, they lose control of their body. And then there’s usually some central figure that’s big, grand, you know, pronouncements and big gestures and all this kind of stuff. And I just call BS on 99% of that. Um hum. Um, that’s that’s how charlatans act. It’s not what Jesus did. It’s not what Paul did. It’s not what Peter did. It’s not what John did. Right. So the four big disciples or the four big people in the New Testament that did healings of any kind, it was a direct speaking. Jesus a couple times made mud out of spit. He did a couple of little weird things like that, but he wasn’t out there waving his hand and just knocking everybody down in the crowd. Right. He wasn’t, uh, doing these big giant gestures and stuff. It was take up your bed and walk, right. It was silver and gold. Have I none but such as I have, I give to thee. Right. Take up your mat. Go home. Right. That’s what they did. It was simple. It was often private. Other than the fact that there were a few people standing around. Um. And, you know, Jesus did some of his greatest miracles. He did in private. Yep. You know, not out in the crowd. And so I just think, um, that the miracle thing is not about drawing attention to the miracle maker. The miracle, the the miracle. Uh, conduit. Right. That’s supposed to be bringing drawing attention to God. Yeah.

Chris
So because I’m the one that. Brought this up. Uh, I opened that big can of worms. Uh, let me go ahead and say this, too. So, uh, I imagine that there are probably people who, uh, listen who are a part of those kind of environments. Uh, and so I would just say this, that it’s an interesting thing, isn’t it? I think that when we get to heaven, I think that there’s probably not going to be one denomination that gets everything completely correct.

Jeff
No. Right.

Chris
Right. So we’re all going to be off on something.

Jeff
Oh yeah.

Chris
Absolutely. And so and so. But the measuring stick of of of maturity and faith is, is this question and I fully believe this. Uh, are we able to, uh, maybe possibly disagree with somebody and still worship side by side because, you know, who is it, Saint Francis of Assisi or whatever his name is, who said, um, uh, what did he say? Uh, in all, in the.

Jeff
Major Augustine, Saint Augustine, Saint.

Chris
Augustine said in the, in the in the things.

Jeff
That in essentials, unity, unity in non-essentials.

Chris
Liberty, liberty.

Jeff
In all things.

Chris
Charity. Yeah. And so and so. Yeah. So we we can just say, uh, when it comes to salvation, when it comes to the doctrine of Christ, when it comes to the doctrine of sin and man and angels and, and God and the Trinity, uh, these things we have unity, right? And the non-essentials, uh, we can have liberty, right? Which means we can agree to disagree. Right? Which means if I were listening to your podcast and you were to give your side of things, I would just say, oh, now I understand their side of things.

Jeff
I’m a skeptic of that thing. Yeah.

Chris
And I and I may not agree with that. Sure. But I can still listen and worship side by side. Yeah, yeah. Just knowing that we.

Jeff
Disagree because on the essentials we do have belief, right, right. And so so what I would disagree with is the actions of men. Yes. But I’m not disagreeing with you on on the person of Jesus.

Chris
That’s right. That’s exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So I just hope that that’s oftentimes a sensitive thing. And I open the can of worms. Yeah. So I think that that’s a good good I think.

Jeff
I think there’s an entire industry built around it. Yep. And if there’s an industry built around it you kind of question it a little bit more. So that’s good.

Chris
Yeah. Well good. All right. Well that’s it for us today. And we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.