Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Hey everybody, welcome to The Bible Guys. We are excited today.

Jeff:
It’s good to be here.

Chris:
Yes, and we are continuing with the story of Moses.

Jeff:
Yes, and we are amazed that you came back after yesterday’s episode.

Chris:
I’m so sorry. And by the way, if you missed yesterday’s episode, I highly recommend that you at least watch it or listen to it because it was very unusual.

Jeff:
We laughed a lot yesterday. Yeah, we did.

Chris:
All right, well today, before we get into Moses, we have a segment called Would You Rather, which I like these, don’t you? Yes. It just gives us a choice and we just have to pick one, whatever our preferences are.

Jeff:
We’ve already done Would You Rather, didn’t we? Oh, did we? Yeah, we did Would You Rather yesterday.

Chris:
Oh, my bad.

Jeff:
Yeah, I think it’s most likely. That’s correct.

Chris:
I just said it wrong. Okay. So I had to scroll down further. So who’s most likely? Here we go. Ready? Who’s most likely to survive a zombie apocalypse? Me. It’s definitely you. It’s definitely you. Because why? You have weaponry.

Jeff:
Yes. I have way more weaponry than you.

Chris:
Yes. I have zero weaponry. I have my kitchen steak knives.

Jeff:
Yes. I was, my daughter wanted to date a guy. He’s a good guy, but I didn’t know him. And I said, Hey, I have to meet him or he can’t date you. And so she finally opens the door. I had just come back from my place where I hunt. I had cited in all my guns. So my whole table was covered in guns. When, when he walked in all hunting guns, I was cleaning them. And I said, sit down, John. Let me ask you, what are your intents with my daughter? You know, he’s all intimidated. And I told him, I said, I just need you to know, I’m not afraid to go back to prison. I got a whole table full of weapons of fire. That’s great. I think I would survive the apocalypse.

Chris:
You didn’t even plan.

Jeff:
I didn’t know it was happening. Right. It was totally a random thing. It was like a gift. It was a gift from heaven. A gift from heaven when he walked in. That’s so great.

Chris:
All right. So number two, who’s most likely to talk to animals if they could understand them?

Jeff:
You. Me. Definitely you.

Chris:
Yeah. Why is that?

Jeff:
Because you already talked to animals and you can’t understand them. That is so true. Is it true? Yes, of course it’s true.

Chris:
It’s so true. And I get it from my wife, honestly. It’s 32 years of being with her, and it is her talking to animals, and so we do the same thing. That’s so funny. Oh my goodness. That is so good. Number three, who’s most likely to be caught talking to themselves? This is a tough one. Yeah. I think we’re sort of the same on this.

Jeff:
I talk to myself.

Chris:
Do you? Yeah. Then I have to say you.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Chris:
Because I don’t really talk to myself. Yeah.

Jeff:
Well, it’s hard to find interesting people to talk to, so I just talk to myself when I’m in the truck by myself.

Chris:
Sometimes I’m just the best choice. Yeah, that’s right. All right, number four. Who’s most likely to binge watch an entire season of a TV show in one day?

Jeff:
You. Yeah, by far me. Now, I’ve done it. I have done it. Have you? Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. But so I just been binge watched the entire 10 seasons of Blacklist. Oh, in a very short amount of time. Wow. And each of those have like 25 episodes.

Jeff:
Right.

Chris:
And there’s six long seasons, 60 minutes long. And and I get from we’ll put you this way. It’s I started it when you and Chad mentioned it.

Jeff:
Oh, wow. Yeah. So I mean, two months ago, two months ago.

Chris:
Yeah. I just burned through them.

Jeff:
Yeah.

Chris:
And so yeah, for sure. And then number five, who’s most likely to accidentally walk into a glass door?

Jeff:
Well, I’ve walked into a glass door several times.

Chris:
I several times. Yes. Well, I’m going to have to go with you then. Yeah. Although my instinct was to say me, I well, I I actually now that I’m I was going to say me, but now I’m changing my answer to you. But my instinct was to say me because I couldn’t picture you walking into a glass door.

Jeff:
Yeah, I’ve walked into a glass door several times. Wow. Yeah, I was in… I don’t think I’ve ever… No, so the reason why I was so quick to say that is we were staying at quite a nice hotel in Sri Lanka last week.

Chris:
This happened last week?

Jeff:
Last week. And, uh, it was one of those, uh, ones that go around and around and around. Yeah. Yeah. The rotating doors, like the rotating door is. And, uh, I didn’t see, they had a sign up that we need to go out one of the other doors. They were doing maintenance on it.

Chris:
So they locked it.

Jeff:
I hit my, it was a full flat face. And when I stepped back, you could see where my face hit the glass. Wow.

Chris:
So, okay. So I probably have walked into a glass door. Maybe sometime in my life, I can’t even remember it.

Jeff:
Yeah, no, I’m serious, it happened. Literally last week.

Chris:
So regardless of my answer, the true answer is you.

Jeff:
Yeah. And this was, we had a special meeting in the city and we were staying at a very nice hotel. So everything about it was embarrassing. Everything. People were calling to me. I was talking, which is terrible. And I wasn’t paying attention. People were calling to me, the, the, the, the, like the doorman and stuff, trying to get my attention and I’m ignoring them because I’m trying to finish my sentence. And I turn around and bam, right into the glass.

Chris:
Wow is the thing wasn’t turning so in other words the worst-case scenario.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah, everybody’s watching. They’re calling out to me It’s all these rich people standing around Yeah, it’s a swanky place.

Chris:
Yeah, the whole thing right so I’ve done it. It’s like Michael Scott falling into the koi pond there you go, so All right, so that that wraps up that segment. And so we are going to be moving on to the plagues of Egypt.

Jeff:
And this is big, man. This, this is these next several chapters. We’re not going to read every verse in every chapter here, but these next several chapters are so apocalyptic. Like they’re movie worthy. Every element is it’s could be its own movie. Right. But hey, that’d be cool.

Chris:
Snakes on a plane.

Jeff:
We should know we should talk to some of our movie producer friends Yeah, and get them to make disaster movies of all ten of these things.

Chris:
Oh, there you go Yeah, it’d be like just this ongoing like the Marvel Universe.

Jeff:
Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah movies leading up to the culmination

Jeff:
Exactly. Okay. Anyways, here we go. I’m going to read five verses out of Exodus 5 and then we’ll jump to Exodus chapter 7. Okay. It says, after this presentation to Israel’s leaders, Moses goes and tells all the Israelite leaders, hey, God sent me, and they believe him. Right. But then, after this presentation to Israel’s leaders, Moses and Aaron went and spoke to Pharaoh. They told him, this is what the Lord, the God of Israel says, let my people go so they may hold a festival in my honor in the wilderness. Is that so? retorted Pharaoh. And who is the Lord? Why should I listen to him and let Israel go? I don’t know the Lord and I’ll not let Israel go. But Aaron and Moses persisted. The God of the Hebrews has met with us, they declared. So let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness so we can offer sacrifices to the Lord our God. If we don’t, he will kill us with a plague or with a sword. Pharaoh replied, Moses and Aaron, why are you distracting the people from their tasks? Get back to work. Look, there are many of your people in the land and you’re stopping them from their work. So then Pharaoh gets mad. Right. And he makes the work harder.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, he actually refuses to give them straw and says, Hey, try making bricks without straw. Right.

Jeff:
And so a binding agent, right. Right.

Chris:
The binding. Yeah. The binder. And so they had to make bricks without straw. And then therefore what he was really trying to do is he was trying to get the people to turn on Moses. Right. And so by punishing the people, but it turns out that the people, you know, supported Moses more because after all, he was their spokesman. He was their champion.

Jeff:
So then in chapter six, God tells Moses, now you’ll see what I’ll do to Pharaoh when he feels the force of my strong hand to let the people go. In fact, he’ll force them to leave his land, but they just can’t imagine how it’s going to happen. And then finally you get to chapter seven, And in verse 14, it says, And then announced to him, Until now, you’ve refused to listen to Him. So this is what the Lord says, Then the Lord said to Moses, Tell Aaron, take your staff and raise your hand over the waters of Egypt, all its rivers and canals and ponds and all the reservoirs. Turn all the water to blood. Everywhere in Egypt, the water will turn to blood, even the water stored in wooden bowls and stone pots. So Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord commanded them, and as Pharaoh and all of his officials watched, Aaron raised his staff and struck the water of the Nile. Suddenly, the whole river turned to blood. The fish in the river died, and the water became so foul that the Egyptians couldn’t drink it. There was blood everywhere throughout the land of Egypt. But again, the magicians of Egypt used their magic, and they too turned water into blood. So Pharaoh’s heart remained hard. He refused to listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had predicted. Pharaoh returned to his palace and put the whole thing out of his mind. Then all the Egyptians dug along the riverbank to find drinking water, but they couldn’t drink the water from the Nile. Seven days passed from the time the Lord struck the Nile.”

Chris:
Seven days. Seven days. And you can’t go without water for more than what, four days? Three days. Three days.

Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that’s the extreme. Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. And so, so they were digging for water and apparently they were able to find water digging.

Jeff:
Apparently.

Chris:
Right.

Jeff:
Yeah.

Chris:
So all the existing water, including all the water stored in homes, all the water stored in reservoirs and he struck it in the Nile and we’ve been to the Nile. Right. So the Nile river is quite large and it’s fierce. It’s raging. Right. And not raging in terms of waves, but in those days it would flood quite often.

Jeff:
Right. It would flood its banks and yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, I just mean raging in terms of its current.

Jeff:
Oh, it’s a strong current. Yeah.

Chris:
It’s a really strong current. And so, um, uh, and so he, you know, he holds up the staff and everything turns to blood. And by the way, blood, think about that’s gross. The consistency of blood. Right. So, uh, you know, and just the poor fish, right.

Jeff:
So, um, as hot as it is in Egypt, even, even during the, so the smell of rotting fish and everything else that’s in the river is, is that’s just gross. But this, the, the river is about 3000 miles long and all of the people live within just a few miles of the river. So it’s about, in some spots, it’s about seven miles out on either side of the river is where the majority of the people live. They built canals and they go out and water their gardens and their farms. It’s really green. It’s like this belt of green. It’s really beautiful. But the life of Egypt is, and always has been, the Nile River. And so they worshiped the Nile like it was a God. And so for God to go after literally the lifeblood of of Egypt by turning it into blood, undrinkable, killing everything in it. So the other thing is every little restaurant serves fish, right? The amount of seafood that is eaten in Egypt is unbelievable. It’s a tremendous amount of fish. Fish is one of the main protein sources. And so he kills the food and the water all in one day. And it lasts for seven days. But the most astounding thing is in the same way Pharaoh goes, who is this God? I don’t know him. I don’t know the Lord. Right. Then in this one, the Bible literally says, um, uh, Pharaoh returned to his palace and put the whole thing out of his mind.

Chris:
Well, because his magicians did it.

Jeff:
Yeah. They could turn water into blood.

Chris:
Yeah. And so what, what do you make of that? Yeah. So, so witchcraft, magician, like sorcery, like that’s, that’s apparently that’s a thing. And the Bible says it’s a thing. Yeah. So are you, I’ve always been taught that any supernatural power that exists that isn’t from God is demonic. Yeah. So we believe that, don’t we?

Jeff:
Yeah. So if this was a, so they’re magicians, right? So there’s a difference between a magician and a sorcerer or a witch or, you know, a witch doctor. So it could have just been a trick, because if you remember, we didn’t read this passage, but when Moses uses his staff and turns it into a snake, so do they. But even now, there are some snakes that you can charm into being rigid and straight, right? And so they might have just pulled off a trick. where Moses didn’t, Moses did a miracle, God did a miracle through Moses, the magicians could have done a trick to have duplicated that one. And then this one too, hey, a little bit of red dye, right? Something to fool, a sleight of hand to fool the Pharaoh. Somehow these magicians are keeping Pharaoh’s attention. He believes they’re legit. But man, have you ever seen close-up magic and you just can’t figure out how it is? Hey, well, we have a friend. We have a friend that’s done some magic for us before, remember? And he’s amazing at up-close magic. And I look at it and go, I have no idea how he pulled some of those things off, right? So it could have just been a trick that they did, but it was believable enough that Pharaoh went, my people can do it too.

Chris:
I’ve had people in my house for a birthday party for my daughter, a friend of mine, and he did up-close magic right in front of my face. And I was a foot from him, like examining the trick. And I said, I have no idea how you did that. And he explained it to me and I was like, oh, now I get it. But yeah, it’s pretty amazing how you can fool somebody.

Jeff:
So it could have been a trick, but on the other hand, it could have been full-blown evil miracle that a demon did. I know a lot of the work that I’ve done around the world, especially in Africa, I’ve known witch doctors that have become Christians. And those witch doctors have articulated that, yeah, some of that power is very real. One witch doctor, he could make it thunder. And he said it was demons that would do it. So, you know, it could have been either way, but Pharaoh was thoroughly unimpressed. Right. Which is unbelievable to me.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously the magicians weren’t able to pull off something as extravagant as what Moses did, but just the fact that it at least could exist. And think about the stakes. The stakes were so high, you know, again, I mean, if it’s estimated, most scholars believe that the Egyptians or the Hebrews were, you know, maybe up to a million people. Imagine if you had a slave working force of a million people. Like, what can that group of people do? And the answer is they could do anything, right? They could build the pyramids. Oh, don’t even get me started on that one.

Jeff:
They didn’t build the pyramids. I know they didn’t.

Chris:
I know the pyramids already existed at that time.

Jeff:
The pyramids existed before Joseph. Yeah. The pyramids existed before Jacob showed up.

Chris:
I only made a joke because people think aliens build pyramids. There’s no way that you can, over a 45 degree angle, move three tons with a lever. I’m not saying it was aliens, but… Right, right. So anyway, so this idea that not only does he do a plague of blood, but then he goes on, because Pharaoh hardens his heart, Pharaoh says no, he refuses, and then what happens is they go through a plague of frogs next?

Jeff:
And it says so many frogs infested everything. They were in their houses, in their beds, everywhere, and then they began to die. The frogs do. And it says that the Egyptians piled them into great heaps and the terrible stench filled the land.

Chris:
And then after that was a plague of gnats. Right. Can you even imagine gnats? Raise your staff and strike the ground and the dust will turn into swarms of gnats throughout the land of Egypt. And then it says there’s a plague of flies.

Jeff:
Yeah. And it said it covered everyone, people and animals alike.

Chris:
Oh, and by the way, uh, last night we had one fly in my house. We were watching TV. We had one fly and it was the worst. And I’m just like, get the fly away. Can you imagine a plague of them where they’re, they’re just all over you. Did you ever see an animal that covered with so many flies and it just sort of surrenders to it?

Jeff:
Especially the biting flies. Right. So there’s a difference between gnats, gnats and flies, unless the flies were biting flies or some kind of a, right. So gnats and flies seem like it’s the same plague almost unless, you know, so the one is a harassing thing. The other one, I’m going to bet these were the biting flies. Cause I’ve been bit by so many flies in Egypt. So I’m going to, I’m going to bet that’s what that was.

Chris:
And then there’s a plague of livestock, where he actually struck the livestock, donkeys, camels, cattle, sheep, goats with a deadly plague. And so the plague against the livestock was just, man, I’m sure that was massive.

Jeff:
All the animals died. How did you survive? So the animals were, you know, you didn’t have cars. So this is what pulled the wagons. And this is what hauled the lumber. This is what plowed the fields. This is what they used for milk. You just go down the line. And they all just died. But it says that the people of Israel didn’t have problems with these things.

Chris:
Yeah. By the way, the children of Israel in the land of Goshen is where they were. Even the darkness, which we’re about to see, didn’t affect their city, which is amazing.

Jeff:
And the people didn’t lose a single animal. Then the gross one, maybe of all of them, is festering boils. Right? So they wind up having this whole season of festering boils. But the Bible keeps saying Pharaoh refuses to listen. Pharaoh refused to let the people go over and over. So now everybody were struck with boils and they took soup from the bricks. They took ashes and they, again, to dry out those things, but they couldn’t even hardly stand. They were completely covered in festering boils. And the animals. Yeah.

Chris:
So not just the humans, but the animals head to toe. And then a plague of hail. So the hail comes down and you know, just, I mean, I’m sure you’ve been in a hail storm before, but, but hail covering the land of Egypt and not again, not the Egyptian or not the Hebrews. So that’s pretty weird.

Jeff:
And then, and it wipes out all the, almost all the fields, livestock in the fields, right. Is what it is, what it winds up destroying. So food, all those things.

Chris:
And then a plague of locusts, and that’s gotta be just probably even just as bad as the gnats and the flies.

Jeff:
So what wasn’t destroyed by the, um, it says all the flax and barley were ruined by the hail, right? Because it was that time of the year, but then whatever wasn’t wiped out by the hail, the locusts came and just cleaned right down to the ground. Wow. Right.

Chris:
And then it says the plague of darkness. And this is where this one amazes me the most because it says darkness covered the entire land of Egypt for three days. And during that time, the people cannot see each other. No one moved for three days. No one moved. Right. But he says, but there was light as usual where the people of Israel lived. Right. Are you kidding me? Which means like if you live in their city, you look up and there’s the sun and you’re just la la la. And then you leave the city, you go to where the Egyptians lived and there’s complete and utter darkness. And it says, it says so dark that you can’t see another person in front of you. Right. That’s incredible. Just pure blackness.

Jeff:
So a couple of these times now, at the end of them, what Moses, or what Pharaoh would do is call Moses back and go, okay, God got my attention. Go ahead, you guys can go. And then after the plague stopped, then the Bible said that God would harden Pharaoh’s heart. Pharaoh changed his mind. He goes, no, nevermind. It’s over now. You can’t go. And so here’s another one where finally darkness is this way. And Pharaoh in verse 24 there in chapter 10 says, go and worship the Lord, but leave your flocks and herds here. You can even take your little kids with you, but leave your stuff. And Moses goes, nope, we have to take all of it and you need to provide more. And Pharaoh says, no, he gets out, get out, get out of here. Don’t come back. I don’t ever want to see you again. And Moses goes, okay, I’ll never see your face again. And he leaves. And then tomorrow we’ll talk about the 10th and definitely the worst plague.

Chris:
Yeah. Should we introduce the plague now and then talk about the Passover tomorrow? Or, or should we just save the whole thing for tomorrow?

Jeff:
Well, it’s a cliffhanger.

Chris:
Okay, Cliff, here it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, when it comes down to it, it’s the most interesting thing about all of this, all these plagues and all of this chapter, is the fact that it says that the Lord was the one that hardened Pharaoh’s heart.

Jeff:
Right.

Chris:
And that always confused me. Because, you know, it’s one thing for Pharaoh to say no, and then for God to keep on doing these plagues, but it’s another thing for know, Pharaoh to say yes, and then the Lord is the one who hardened Pharaoh’s heart once again. And so, I have to believe that God did this for a reason, that, you know, to convince the entire nation instead of convincing one man, right? To demonstrate to the nation that the Lord is God, you know, maybe they had to go through all of those things in order to, you know, understand that. Maybe for the children of Israel, to see God work on their behalf after being enslaved for 400 years, not just one thing, not just two things, but thing after thing, after thing, after thing, just to let the children of Israel know how much they are valued. How, again, just experiencing the fact that everybody’s in darkness and you’re in light, to understand that you’re favored, to understand that you’re seen, that you’re heard, that you’re valued, that you’re loved. You know, maybe God did this as an affirming message over and over and over for the years that they’ve cried out in bondage and cried out in pain, you know, because they were probably convinced at that point that God would have never showed up. Right. So God shows up in a big way, demonstrating his love and his, you know, value of them over and over and over.

Jeff:
Yeah, this hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, people point to this often, that God was unfair, that Pharaoh didn’t have a choice. What I can tell you is at the very beginning, when Moses first goes and gives Pharaoh an opportunity, Pharaoh goes, who’s this God you’re talking about? Pharaoh was familiar with tons of gods, and he knew that they were all fraudulent. He was a God for crying out loud, right? People viewed him as a God. And so he’s like, your God’s no more powerful than anybody else’s God, right? That’s how he was. So in that moment, God didn’t harden Pharaoh’s heart. Pharaoh was cynical. He was, he lifted himself up. Who’s this God that I should obey him? I’m a God too, right? And God didn’t harden his heart there. What God decided to do is, okay, with that kind of response, this is going to be really rough for you. And every time Pharaoh was about ready to change his mind, God didn’t let him change his mind. right, through that whole thing, because God was going after the 10 of the major gods of Egypt at the time, the Nile River, blood, the sun, literally the sun is the most important god. Yeah, Ra. Right? And that’s the last one is there’s no darkness. Frogs, all these things. So he’s going after weather, so he goes after all these gods. And I think that you’re seeing God harden his heart after the fact, not at the beginning. So Pharaoh’s heart was hard, and God just didn’t let him change his mind from that point on. But you’re going to take 10 really big beatings here, right?

Chris:
So the 10 beatings were, you want me to show you how I’m better than every single guy that you know?

Jeff:
That’s right. So you made your bed, now you’re going to lie in it. That’s kind of the thing. So it’s not that God hardened his heart at the beginning, he decided he was a God and that he didn’t have to listen to the God of the universe. And then from there, God was like, okay, I’m not going to let you change your mind for 10 more plagues. Then you’re going to change your mind. Right. And, uh, you know, I think sometimes we go through some stuff sometimes got to go, okay, Hey, if that’s the choice you’re going to make, I’m like, I’m going to let you live with that choice for a while. Now, eventually he ends it. Even God’s grace extends to Pharaoh at this point and ends all these horrible things. But, um, you know, there are consequences to our decisions and God will let us live with our consequences. And that’s a tough one.

Chris:
Well, that’s a good cliffhanger. And so we will talk about the 10th plague the next time on The Bible Guys.