Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff:
That’s not how that’s supposed to go. I was pointing at you saying, here’s Chris, and then I was going to say, and I’m Jeff.

Chris:
Okay, well there’s Jeff.

Jeff:
Yes, and there’s Chris, and we’re the Bible Guys.

Chris:
That’s right. We fumbled that one. It’s not that complicated. It’s just two names that we’ve had our whole lives.

Jeff:
That’s right. We should know who we are. Last I knew. My bad. Okay. Well, no worries. So today we have a very exciting segment. Yes, we do. Yes. This is one of your, it’s in your sweet spot. So what, what does that mean?

Chris:
Oh, it’s gotta be movies or some sort of song lyrics.

Jeff:
Yeah. It’s, it’s movies. Okay. So this is a movie quote race. I’m going to read off movie quotes and we’re going to see how fast Chris can guess what movie it’s from.

Chris:
And I’m racing against the listeners.

Jeff:
And you’re racing against the listeners. Okay.

Chris:
That’s correct. So I’m going to close my eyes because I get distracted when I look at you, but if I just hear the movie quote, I’m just going to process the information.

Jeff:
That’s right. Here we go. He’s praying right now. This is how Chris has his devotions. I’m doing jumping jacks. Here we go. Ready? Yes. You need a stretch? No, no. I’m good. Okay. Here we go. You sit on a throne of lies. Elf.

Chris:
That was so easy.

Chris:
That was the best quote ever. Sit on a throne of flies.

Jeff:
That’s so great. Okay. And what was the other one? You smell like beef and cheese.

Chris:
You smell like beef and cheese. You’re not the real Santa.

Jeff:
Okay.

Chris:
What song did I sing for you on your birthday?

Jeff:
Happy birthday of course. We’re going to reach back a little bit. Okay. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Chris:
Oh, airplane. Airplane. There you go. That’s so great. That’s so great. And throughout the whole movie he kept on saying things like that. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking. Yeah, that’s right. And he kept on saying things.

Jeff:
Bend and snap.

Chris:
Legally Blonde.

Chris:
There you go. She said bend and snap.

Chris:
There you go. Did you see that movie? No. Oh my goodness. It’s like one of the most famous parts of the movie.

Jeff:
Yeah. I don’t. Yeah.

Chris:
She was, she was teaching the title would have, she was teaching somebody how to flirt and, and then, uh, and then this girl tries it. And when she snaps back up, she smacked somebody in the face. It’s really funny.

Jeff:
Yeah. Okay. Uh, did I stutter?

Chris:
It could be anything. Did I stutter?

Jeff:
That’s a tough one.

Chris:
Did I, did I stutter? That could be anything, man. I don’t want to waste the listener’s time here. What is it?

Jeff:
It’s the Breakfast Club.

Chris:
I’m 99% positive that it’s actually Do I Stutter?

Jeff:
All right, we’ll have to look it up.

Chris:
Yeah, I’m 99% positive.

Jeff:
This is the scene where… So you would have gotten it if I’d said Do I Stutter?

Chris:
I think so, because… Because this is the scene where he shows him the cigar burn on his forearm. And he goes, see this? This is about the size of a cigar. This is what you get when you spill paint in the old man’s garage. And he goes, do I stutter?

Jeff:
We’ll have to look it up. Yeah. It’s past tense versus present tense. That’s what threw you off. The stutter part.

Chris:
Well, do I stutter is a famous quote. It triggers the whole speech in your mind if you’re a fan.

Jeff:
Okay. Wow. Okay. So you’re just a finely tuned machine. That’s it. Tense matters. Okay. Anyways, I’m a loner, Dottie. A rebel.

Chris:
I’m a loner, Dottie.

Jeff:
Yeah. As soon as I read that one, I knew that one.

Chris:
Really? Yep. I don’t know this one. Yeah. Really?

Chris:
It’s gotta be an older movie. Dottie’s an old name.

Jeff:
Yeah. Pee-wee’s Big Adventure.

Chris:
Oh, goodness. I hated that movie. There you go. I hated that movie. I saw it one time. And I remember the whole movie. I was like, why am I still watching this?

Jeff:
So, you know, almost every movie I’ve ever seen, I’ve seen one time. So that’s, I think, the difference between the two of us.

Chris:
Right. How many times have you seen The Breakfast Club?

Jeff:
Never.

Chris:
I’ve never seen The Breakfast Club. Bro, bro. You just told me everything I need to know about you.

Jeff:
Not everything.

Chris:
Dude, you’re my age. Why in the world have you not watched the greatest movie of our generation?

Jeff:
Because I didn’t have a TV and wasn’t allowed to go to movies.

Chris:
Right. But then something, remember Captain America even had the list. Yeah. Remember he came out and he said, yeah, he said, I’ll add it to the list. Okay.

Jeff:
Yeah. Sorry.

Chris:
Here we go. One last one. Dude, you’re gonna have to watch Breakfast Club.

Jeff:
I’m in a glass case of emotion.

Chris:
Oh, Anchorman. Of course. That’s one of the best lines in the movie. He’s in the phone booth.

Chris:
I’m in a glass case of emotion.

Jeff:
There you go. That’s so great. Okay, Chris. Well, you got four out of six.

Chris:
No, I didn’t. I got, oh, four out of six.

Jeff:
You gave me six. I gave you six. That’s correct. Okay. So, and you got four of them right. So of the six that I gave you, you got four.

Chris:
And I would argue and say that one was faulty. Hang on.

Jeff:
Are you looking up, do I stutter? Is that what you’re doing?

Chris:
Do I stutter? Okay. Look at the first thing that came up.

Jeff:
Yep. The Breakfast Club. Read it. Do I stutter?

Chris:
Do I stutter? It’s not, did you stutter? Okay. Did I stutter? It’s, do I stutter? As soon as I typed it in. Okay.

Jeff:
Well, we’re going to put that one on Desiree.

Chris:
Uh, sorry, Desiree, but that is definitely not my fault there.

Jeff:
So, so Chris got four and a half out of six.

Chris:
No, no, no, no, no, no. No, I got four out of five.

Jeff:
You got four out of five. Okay. So you’re dismissing that one. Yeah. That wasn’t a movie quote. And you didn’t say it was not a quote. It was not a quote. Okay. Tense, tense matters.

Chris:
Okay. Well, quote matters. That’s why it’s a quote.

Jeff:
I would have thought that the key word would have been stutter, not do, but.

Chris:
Uh, well, no, it’s the trigger of the of the speech.

Chris:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, by the way, because the point is do versus did he said He said this way the whole point of the speech was do he says he said this way he goes Do I stutter?

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a pretty big point, right?

Jeff:
Yeah, it just feels like the word stutter is a bigger deal to me than do Oh, really?

Chris:
You can’t handle the truth. The truth is the main part of that right? But what if he said? you can’t You can’t manage the truth. That would change the quote. You’re like, that’s not Jack Nicholson.

Jeff:
I would have said, Oh, that’s, that’s Jack Nicholson. I would have said that, but it’s the wrong quote, but Hey, whatever, you know, some people, Hey, you complete me is the operative word is complete.

Chris:
Hey, you complete the dog. That’s not Jerry Maguire.

Jeff:
No, but I would have known what you were talking about. No, you would not have. I would have. Anyways, here we go. I just like getting under your skin.

Chris:
Yes, but you did not.

Jeff:
So Jesus has resurrected from the dead. We need to move on. Jesus has resurrected from the dead. And the ladies have come and they discovered that the tomb is empty. The angels tell them, why are you looking for the living among the dead? He’s not here. He has risen. Now go back and tell the disciples and make sure you tell Peter. And he’s going ahead of you into Galilee. But she’s supposed to go back and tell the disciples. So Peter and John run to the tomb. In Luke chapter 24 verse 12 it says, however, Peter jumped up and ran to the tomb to look. Stooping, he peered in and saw the empty linen wrappings. Then he went home again wondering what had happened. So that’s Luke’s version of it. John has exterior motivations as to why he needs to expand on the story. He says, Peter and the other disciple, I wonder who that was. I wonder who that is. Peter and the other disciples started out for the tomb. They were both running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he didn’t go in. Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus’ head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings. Then the disciple who had reached the tomb first also went in, and he saw and believed. For until then, they still hadn’t understood the scriptures that said Jesus must rise from the dead. Then they went home.” Hard to believe.

Chris:
Until that moment.

Jeff:
They didn’t understand.

Chris:
Until it was laid out for them.

Jeff:
Literally laid out with empty linens and a folded head napkin. Yeah. They just didn’t get it. Hard to believe. So I think it’s hysterical. Luke gives one verse that just says Peter jumps up and runs to the tomb and looks in. That’s it. John goes, well, so it was Peter and, you know, the disciple. Who Jesus loves. Jesus really loves that disciple. The old guy and the young guy. This is the oldest disciple and the youngest disciple. Right. We took off running and, you know, so I beat him. I beat him to the tomb. Of course. It’s like, it’s like Jeff and Chris. If we wrote the story, we’d be writing it that way, right? And then I beat him to the tomb.

Chris:
Not to brag. Yeah, but I went in.

Jeff:
But it’s funny because, you know, if Mark was Peter’s secretary, Peter didn’t even admit to the race. He didn’t even admit that it happened.

Chris:
Well, Mark doesn’t even record it.

Jeff:
I know, that’s what I’m saying. So if Mark’s writing Peter’s story, Peter just kind of glossed over that part of it. You know, hey, Jesus wanted to make sure I met him in Galilee. So he included that in Mark, but then doesn’t admit that he lost a foot race. It’s hysterical. It’s one of the things I love about humanity, just in general, good friends, right? Is this, I love the competitiveness. I know some people don’t like competitiveness, but I love the competitiveness. I love all the petty little things around being competitive, the trash talking, the, I love that stuff.

Chris:
Now, let’s be fair, too. It could be that that wasn’t John’s motivation at all for writing. It could be, right? Let’s enter in a new mindset. It could be that John was just trying to accurately record any detail, whether too small, too great. And what he was saying was like, this is exactly how it happened.

Jeff:
Yeah, the guy who didn’t include hardly anything that Matthew, Mark, and Luke included.

Chris:
Hey, listen, I’m saying go with me here. John basically wrote his own book. Right.

Chris:
He’s saying, go with me here. He’s trying to say, Hey, here’s the exact details. I got there first. And I, and I stood there in awe and I, and I could not even go in because I was bewildered, but Peter, you know, being, you know, showing the dynamics and the, you know, the aggressiveness of, of who we know Peter to be. Right. Of course, Peter’s going to go right in and he’s going to examine the evidence for himself. And so it could be that John was just trying to give exact pictures of, you know, of what happened in full detail. Right. and not trying to brag on who won the race. However, I’d like to think that Yeah, because he used the word outran.

Jeff:
Yes. Yeah. Right. He outran him. I beat you. They’re both right. So Peter, that old guy, he’s just not as fast as he used to be. I beat him down to the tomb. I outran him. I had to wait. As a matter of fact, I got there and had to wait for him to get there. That’s, that’s the way he tells his story.

Chris:
Congratulations.

Chris:
I’m a hundred years old. It’s so good.

Jeff:
It’s great. I just, I love it. I love that that is there. And it tells it that way. And then this is so amazing. The story itself in that when Peter shows up again in Peter’s nature, him being so bold, right? He’s the guy who jumped out of the boat and wanted to walk to Jesus. He’s the one who pulled out the sword and cut off the servant’s ear, right? This is Peter. And he’s kind of in fine form again. John steps, stays outside the tomb. Now you remember as a good Jews, The whole tomb idea and all this kind of stuff, they’re worried about being unclean. So John, following the rules, stays outside, peeks in, and Peter just straight in, right? He just goes in. This boldness, this aggressive stance that he lives his life in. And then these linen wrappings are left as if Jesus’ body just disappeared. right? So it’s still calls them the wrappings. It wasn’t that they were unraveled, right? It was just that there was a body in it and now there’s not a body in it. And then, um, so that would have been like really, really crazy.

Chris:
Have you heard this theory? And I’m sure you have, uh, but there was, there’s a word for it and I don’t know it in this moment, but I’ve preached it on an Easter before as a, as a working theory where it was almost like a paper mache. where, have you heard this, where kings were mummified in a way to where there was like a salve or something that was going over the wrappings and it would have been like a hardened shell. And so if the wrappings are still there intact, it would have meant that Jesus would have phased through it and it might’ve been like the cocoon, like a cocoon shaped. Right. Now, of course, there’s no real evidence of really knowing that. But because of tradition of how kings were wrapped and because he was brought, you know, with so many kingly, you know, all the spices would have been fit for a king. Right. That’s that’s that’s the way that they buried him.

Jeff:
Yeah, so they mixed that, what did we talk about, aloes and myrrh with oil, and yeah, it would have made a thing, and it was for the purpose of the smell, but it was also, that was part of the thing. So they did not embalm Jesus, they did not… you know, like the Egyptians would, where they were mummifying Jesus. They didn’t do that. But there would have been very quickly these wrappings that would have been, that would have wrapped Jesus up. And then that would have had all those spices and those, that kind of a paste that would have made it. So yeah, perhaps. But certainly what they saw was there’s this empty, it was supposed to be, it was not unwrapped. a thief would have unwrapped the body it was trying to if they if so a thief would have just stole the whole body and everything in it right you wouldn’t take enough time to unwrap it but if they did take the time to unwrap the body it would have been unraveled right? Is the point, but here it was not unraveled. It was just all lying in place. And then the, the, the head covering was folded up nice and neat right there. Right. And so it shows certain intention, not speed of, Hey, we had to fight off some Roman soldiers and steal a body, wrap it, throw it over in the corner and go right. That that’s the, that’s the point. And I think that why that’s why that detail is there is to show that, um, it’s all, just as it should have been, except the head piece was wrapped up. It was folded up nice, but there was care to this, not some kind of randomness.

Chris:
And it’s just one more small detail. Yeah. That supports the fact that nobody ran in there in a rush trying to pull off the greatest heist in humanity. And here’s a question. The question is this, and this is a hypothetical, Would Peter and John have believed as strongly had they not seen the resurrected Jesus? Would an empty tomb and the promises of Jesus have been enough? So think about everything that they had seen, right? Jesus, Jesus, uh, calming the storm and the waves. And then of course, raising Lazarus would be the pretty big thing, right? Uh, raising the girl from the dead. And so, uh, uh, so they definitely witnessed it, but had they had just seen the empty tomb without actually seeing Jesus, would that have been enough? And, uh, and I think the answer is yes.

Jeff:
I think the answer is no. I think the answer is yes. Well, Thomas, Thomas didn’t see the empty tomb, but Thomas was told by eyewitnesses about the empty tomb for eyewitnesses. And he went, no, don’t believe it. I’m going to have to see Jesus.

Chris:
But that’s Thomas. That’s not Peter. I’m saying Peter and John.

Jeff:
Well, it said that they only believed after they saw that it was empty and they saw the grave clothes. That’s when they believed.

Chris:
Well, yeah. I mean, you definitely would believe more.

Jeff:
Yeah. So it was the grave clothes, I think that got them right. That’s they see and they believe because they hadn’t understood the scriptures. So I think that it was the risen Lord. I certainly don’t know that I think that all 11 of them or 10 of the 11 would have died for something that they thought maybe happened. Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Maybe so.

Jeff:
I wouldn’t. I don’t think I would die for a thing I thought maybe would happen. I would say maybe it happened. Well, that wasn’t my question.

Chris:
I’m choosing to believe it happened. That wasn’t my question. My question was, would they have been completely convinced? Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. I don’t know that I would be. Yeah. And it’s just a hypothetical, so it doesn’t matter, right? Because Jesus appeared and they believed. But it does crack me up how, you know, from our side it seems a little easy for us to go, I can’t believe they didn’t believe Jesus was really crystal clear. You know, but at the same time, you know, again, the Chosen is something that I went to see last night at the theaters, and the Chosen is not based on biblical fact. It’s actually based on the biblical facts are in the Bible, but then it expands hypotheticals all the time, right? So there’s a ton of hypothetical in there. And so that’s what I’m meaning. It’s definitely based on the facts in the Bible, but it’s hypothetical. But one of the things that it did is it opened my mind to just perhaps perceiving or receiving in a little bit of a different way. Whereas sometimes we’d be tempted to read, and here it says, they didn’t believe the scriptures. Well, actually it does say, it says they went and they saw and believed. So it does say that they believed.

Jeff:
So they saw the empty tomb and believed.

Chris:
Yes. Yes.

Jeff:
Yes. But it was the, I think that they believed because the other one said they went home again, wondering what had happened. After seeing the empty tomb and the linen wrappings.

Chris:
Well, anyway, here’s my point about the chosen, is that in the chosen, Jesus is talking about his death. And he says something about the temple and things. And they’re like, what did he mean by that? He often says things that you don’t really know if he’s being literal or not. And they’re saying these things among themselves. And it just opened my mind to go, you know what? That’s correct. Jesus often said things that were hard to understand. And there’s a part of me that goes, oh, I think I could relate to the fact that, you know, maybe they left some room in their mind to say, I don’t think he was meaning literal when he said the Son of Man must, you know, die and rise again. They’re like, what’s that symbolic for? You know, it just, it just really, it really opened my mind to the fact that, you know, give the disciples a little bit of grace here.

Jeff:
Sure. Oh yeah, sure. So they, they certainly believed when they, when they see these, um, the cloths and the empty tomb. They believe in that moment. Thomas didn’t believe until he saw Jesus, even though he’d heard it. So it’s, it’s, it’s, yeah, I think that’s a great question to ask. I’m not sure.

Chris:
But again, it doesn’t matter because, because it didn’t happen. But, but hey, one thing is for sure for us, we didn’t see the empty tomb and the resurrected Jesus. Right. We only have the testimony. We only have the testimony. However, we have to consider the fact that Jesus makes himself real in our lives. So one of the things that I always like to say is I always like to say like, hey, if you’re a skeptic and you want to explain away the, the, you know, the, the inconsistencies in the Bible, right? You want to explain away how the Bible isn’t real or it’s written by man, or maybe you’re trying to disprove the resurrection or there’s not enough evidence for you personally. And you could try to do that all day long, right? You can just try to explain away everything. But the one thing you can never explain away is, are the billions of people who have experienced Jesus firsthand. the billions of people whose lives have miraculously been changed by the same power of God with the same testimony, meaning the same Jesus, who have stories that defy comprehension and defy the odds. And so of every, by the way, of every single culture, not just one culture, every culture, every continent, every person from everywhere. And so it’s like, how can you explain that away from every generation? And the bottom line is you can’t, you can’t deny that. And so even though that we don’t necessarily, we didn’t have the privilege of seeing, you know, the resurrected Jesus and, you know, touching his hands and his feet as Thomas is going to do in just a few moments in the next couple episodes. But still, you know, we have the evidence of Jesus in our lives, which then, you know, lets us believe his promises.

Jeff:
And then so many of the other incidental evidences, for instance, if in that day, if you and I were trying to make up a religion with a God, we would not admit that we didn’t understand anything he said. Right. Up to the point that they come in and they’re shocked the body’s gone.

Chris:
Right. What do you mean?

Jeff:
Right off the first four followers of Jesus are shocked to the body’s gone. Yes. Whereas James and John, if they were John and Peter, if they were trying to start a religion, a fake religion, they would have been, and we knew all along. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it just the little incidental thing of them being shocked is another indicator that this is a legitimate, um, a record of what they were experiencing in the moment, because you would never confess that you didn’t know or didn’t understand the leader.

Chris:
Right. And think about this too. God, God allowed it to happen that way and be recorded this way for us to encourage us that, you know, sometimes we doubt and it’s okay because even Peter doubted. That’s right. Even John didn’t understand. So we can’t be too hard on ourselves because as much as changed over 2000 years, so much has stayed the same, which is our human nature, our skepticism, our inability to believe and walk by faith. And so when God says walk by faith, he’s asking us truly to, you know, put our faith and trust in the unseen. So Hebrews says, you know, uh, faith is the evidence of things unseen, right? The things that the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. Right. Which is great. Well, I think that’s a good place to end. So good. So we will continue on with the fantastic story next time on The Bible Guys.