Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Did we start? We did start. Started the clock. Is it going now? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s going. Oh. Say hi. Hi. Hi, everybody. Good? Hi. Yeah, it’s good to be here. Hey, I’m Chris, and this is Jeff. We’re the Bible guys. And today we’re starting off with a segment called Stump the Pastor. Oh, no. And we’re both pastors. Okay, so I’m going to read it and stump you. Okay? Abigail white. Why? Why, yes. What did I say? Her last name. It sounded like white. Oh, why, yes.

Jeff
I’m sorry, Abigail, she says, and this is, uh, quite an involved question. Like it says, given the climate of the world and culture of death that we are living through and with sin rampant, it made me question how God is doing. I can’t imagine that the current state of the world isn’t breaking God’s heart. With more and more people turning away from faith and towards a more secular mindset and sin almost becoming normalized in a lot of ways. I was curious about your thoughts on this topic and how God is feeling or doing, given the struggles he witnesses within his creation by his creation.

Chris
Yeah. Wow. That’s it’s a great thinking question. Isn’t that.

Jeff
Nice? Yeah.

Chris
She’s worried about.

Jeff
God.

Chris
Yeah, she’s worried about God. Well, I mean, technically, yeah, that’s kind of true because the basis of the question is, how is God doing and feeling when things are really tough? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have a.

Jeff
Friend you go to and go, wow, how are you doing? Yeah, this is it. And that’s kind of what she’s saying. Yeah. Yeah. Doing is he doing okay?

Chris
Yeah. And maybe she’s wondering maybe specifically she didn’t say wondering but wondering like, uh, how is he, how is he, um, you know, dealing with it, I guess. So I would just here’s my first. I mean, I have several thoughts, but here’s my first thought is this is nothing new. Like, I mean, read any of the stories of the Old Testament, right? I mean, you know, when when King Herod orders to kill every Jewish baby in the nation. Yeah. Just because it threatens his power and the atrocities, you know, that are listed, uh, in numerous times in the Old Testament of pagan worship idol and, uh, you know, I mean, slavery, I mean, you name it, I mean, just horrific things. Yeah.

Jeff
I think the context of her question is the decline of Western society.

Chris
Yeah. Of course. Right.

Jeff
It feels like we’ve but we had a time when it seemed like there was a perception of a higher level of morality and in Western society, and now we’re post-Christian. Yes.

Chris
I think everybody relates to that question. Yeah, yeah, I think we could all identify that. I guess what I’m saying is it’s nothing new, nothing new globally. So, so in our lifetime we’re 52 years old, right? So in our lifetime we’ve witnessed the decline, right? Yeah. And what I’m saying is, is like, she’s asking about God himself, who is timeless since the beginning of humanity. It’s nothing new. That’s what that’s what I’m saying. Right. And so, uh, that was my first thought. And my second thought is, is that, uh, God is very clear about how he’s doing. Right? So how he’s doing and feeling is God. God’s heart breaks with sin, right? God sheds a tear when we shed a tear. Uh, God hates sin. God allows free will in in the world. Uh, he doesn’t make us, you know, behave or love him or to be righteous or choose good things. And I believe that God is patient, right? He’s he’s patient with us. Uh, he it says he tarries in his second coming because he wants the world. He wants more people to know him. And so yet in spite of the, uh, heartbreak, which she’s absolutely right. Um, you know, it’s a discouraging time. More for us than I think it is. You know, we may be surprised. Oh, this world is going to hell in a handbasket, right? We may be, uh, surprised by the tolerance and acceptance of sin in our culture through media and in our homes and the breakdown of the family. I mean, yeah, James Dobson. Right? He nailed it. Focus on the family. Right. Lose the family, lose the world. Right. All that. I mean, that was the whole premise of his show for years, right? Chris
So I think that I think that we’re surprised by it. But God’s not surprised by it, right? We’re broken hearted hearted about it. God’s more broken hearted about it, right?

Jeff
We remember a time when things seemed and had appearance of a higher level of morality than we have now in our culture. But I was I was just in I was in Nepal a couple of weeks ago or last week, but a couple weeks ago and, uh, I stood at the foot of a 110 foot idol. Yeah, right at the base. Yeah. And for 2000 years, that community had never had any Christian witness or no access to Jesus for 2000 years. Right? Right. 109ft, 110ft tall. Uh, Shiva statue. Um, uh, I was in, uh, another temple, uh, about the same time. Um, they worshiped the monkeys and all those kinds of things, right. And it’s 2000 years. There was no Christian witness there. So.

Chris
Which means the practices of evil. The evil.

Jeff
Oh, the evil was horrific, right? And so, uh. The Bible talks about how different demons are like princes or kings over different regions of the world. I believe that Shiva is one of the major demons over the Indian subcontinent and all their gods. And so God’s been doing war, doing battle against them. Well, the good news is now in Nepal. There’s thousands of new churches over the last ten years, right? So for 2000 years, there were none. Uh, 70 years ago, the very first church in all of Nepal, 70 years ago. And now. There’s thousands. We have over 10,000, 14,000 that are being trained right now in Nepal. The plant churches, right. Uh, there’s 77,000 villages in the country that have no or 74,000 that have no churches at all still. Right. So if you’re wondering what he’s doing, he’s grieving over sin. He hates sin. But God is on the march around the world, right? So we’re seeing the decline of our current society. But most societies in the world have never come up to Christ yet. Right? Right. Many of them. And so in the places where it’s been the darkest, he’s on the move. You wonder what God how God’s doing. God is fighting for the souls of humanity right now against the darkness, right? So the light and the darkness are fighting. You and I are in a post-Christian country, right? We we had access to the gospel. We still do. Churches are in every corner, but the people have inspected Jesus and rejected him for the most part. And because of that, we’ve thrown him out of public society. We’ve thrown him out of the public square. We’ve thrown him out of our general worldview in America, and we’ve made humanism be the main thing. Jeff
Right? We are our own gods now. And so now we’re living in a post-Christian culture where we’re seeing a decline in our culture. God grieves over that. But there’s other places where they’ve never even been an incline towards Christ. And he is on the march around the world. He’s taken back what is his. And, um, uh, so he he loves us. He hates sin. He will judge it. Uh, and in the meantime, he’s drawing as many people to himself as possible. So God’s not discouraged. Mhm. Um, God is encouraged, but there will be a day when he’s going to judge it. All right. And we have to be aware that there, that, that the world is spiraling towards final judgment. And, you know, I think of Jonathan Edwards back, you know, 150 years ago preaching that message, sinners in the hands of an angry God. Right. Um, uh, anger will be, uh, the wrath of God is coming. Um, and so our goal as Christians should be to rescue as many people from the wrath of God as possible. And it’s not wrath against humanity, it’s wrath against sin. Right? Right. But if we don’t repent and turn from our sin, then we’re going to get caught up in that. And so, uh, that’d be a big part of that. That’s I think that’s a great question. Sure, sure it is. Yeah. But, uh, my prayer on a regular basis is, God break my heart for the things that break yours, right? Right. Help me to see the world with a broken heart like he does.

Chris
That’s great. Yeah. So, uh, let’s move into the book of John.

Jeff
Just so. So let’s think. Thank Abigail though, man. Abigail, what a question. And, uh, hey, I bet you it pleases God to know that there’s people that are worried about how he’s doing.

Chris
Sure.

Jeff
Isn’t it? Yeah, that’s kind of a precious, precious way. Hey. God. You okay? Yeah. All right.

Chris
Well, I’ll tell you, we would love any other questions that you have, especially if it’s, uh, one like this. Just so, uh, thoughtful and and, uh, you know, you really have to think hard about these things in order to come up with something like that. So I would say, please email us at info at the Bible guys. Com and uh, we will definitely consider your question for a future podcast.

Jeff
Yeah. Okay. So we are now pivoting out of Luke. Remember how you mentioned it seemed like Luke has all these one one off stories? Yes. Now we’re moving into John, and John has a whole bunch of them too. Yes. So in John chapter 11, this is the only place that, uh, mentions, uh, the story of Lazarus. Now, this Lazarus is not the same Lazarus that Jesus tells the story of the rich man and Lazarus when they go to hell and correct. Right? Correct. In this one, or hell in Paradise. This one is is a friend of Jesus’s, and his name is also Lazarus. It’s kind of like Bob Johnson, right? It’s pretty common name or James.

Chris
James. Yeah. Son of Alphaeus. James. You know, or Judas.

Jeff
There were multiple judas’s.

Chris
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jeff
Uh, so anyways, in Luke chapter 11, verse one, it says A man named Lazarus was sick. He lived in Bethany with his sisters Mary and Martha. This is the Mary who later poured the expensive perfume on the Lord’s feet and wiped them with her hair. Her brother Lazarus was sick, so the two sisters sent a message to Jesus telling him, Lord, your dear friend is very sick. But when Jesus heard about it, he said, Lazarus sickness will not end in death. No, it happened for the glory of God, so that the Son of God will reveal glory from this. So although Jesus loved Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, he stayed where he was for the next two days. Finally he said to his disciples, let’s go back to Judea. But his disciples objected. Rabbi, they said, only a few days ago the people in Judea were trying to stone you. Are you going to go there again? Jesus replied, there are 12 hours of daylight every day. During the day, people can walk safely. They can see because they have the light of this world. But at night there is danger of stumbling because they have no light. Then he said, our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up. The disciples said, Lord, if he’s sleeping, he will soon get better. Though they thought Jesus meant Lazarus was simply sleeping, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died. So he told them plainly, Lazarus is dead. And for your sakes, I’m glad I wasn’t there. For now you will really believe. Come, let’s go see him. Thomas, nicknamed the twins, said to his fellow disciples, let’s go too, and die with Jesus.

Chris
Yeah. Okay. Is that where we’re supposed to stop?

Jeff
That’s where we stop.

Chris
Okay, so. So really, before the main event, uh, we’re just sort of breaking this down into two days.

Jeff
Yeah. So we’re covering the fact that Jesus didn’t show up.

Chris
Right? So God’s timing, right?

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. So, Bethany, uh, for those of you that are curious, um, outside the eastern gate of Jerusalem, there’s a steep hill. There’s a muslim cemetery right outside the eastern gate. Then there’s a steep hill, uh, that goes down into a valley. At the bottom is where the Garden of Gethsemane is. And then you go up the next hill, and that is, um, uh, the Mount of Olives, what we call the Mount of Olives. And it’s literally it’s like a mile. It’s not very far across, right to to that, uh, entrance. When you go over the top of the Mount of Olives and go down the other side of that big hill, Bethany was on the other side of that. You’re talking less than six miles from Jerusalem. Uh, Bethany is down on the other side of that hill over there. So Jesus is pretty close to Jerusalem. He’s hanging out there. And it seems like you remember Mary and Martha. Um, Jesus already had been hanging out at their house before. Because, remember, Mary was mad or Martha was mad that Mary wasn’t helping. Right. Remember when we talked about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, uh, you know, Martha’s running around getting dinner done and Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus. So it seems like this town, Bethany, just outside Jerusalem. Jerusalem is really hectic. Inside the walls would have been just crazy. And so you find Jesus often hanging out in gardens, hanging out in, uh, uh uh, you know, vineyards and stuff like that in small towns he really preferred because he was a small town guy from Nazareth. He’s from Galilee. There’s a huge difference from Jerusalem to Galilee, just even today in the feel of the area.

Chris
Right. For certain.

Jeff
And so Jesus was more of a small town guy, and he’s hanging out in Bethany. Um, this is also Bethany is where Simon, that Pharisee was. Remember when he’s hanging out with the Pharisee? Mhm. Um. Uh, Simon and you’re going to see Jesus with him again. Um, so a lot of things happen over there. It’s like Bethany was like a second headquarters for him when he was close to Jerusalem. He seemed to hang out on the other side of the hill from Jerusalem. So that’s what he’s doing there with these people. And they’re some of his best friends.

Chris
Well, isn’t it interesting how he says, uh, he’s sleeping? You know, oftentimes in the Bible, when it refers to a believer, uh, passing away, it says he fell asleep. Yeah, yeah. And then, uh, the non-believers, what does it say? They died. They died. Right. And that’s a pattern in the Bible. And it’s actually interesting, isn’t it? Symbolic. It’s symbolic. Yeah. So he’s he’s saying, uh, Lazarus is sleeping and, you know, there’s just an understanding, I think, that we’ll have on the other side of eternity where we’ll go. Oh, no wonder why he said sleeping. Right, right, right. But there’s just something about a believer passing away that will be radically different than a non-believer passing away. Right. And, uh, Jesus understands all of that. So he says in the Bible, refers to elsewhere about sleeping. And they said, well, wait a minute. If he’s only sleeping, he’s going to get better, right? He’s going to sleep it off. Right.

Jeff
And Jesus goes, he’s dead.

Chris
Right, right, right. So, so it’s interesting.

Jeff
Jesus recognized that his body’s dead, but he’s trying to be more intentional with word because words matter, right? And he’s trying to get his disciples to think of the death of a believer not as being a permanent thing. He’s trying to get them to think of it differently. So he keeps using this sleeping, and he’s done it a couple times through the remember when the little girl died and was at Capernaum and he said, she’s not dead, she’s just asleep. And the people mocked him over it. Yeah. He.

Chris
Um, don’t you think we don’t know death when we see it? Yeah.

Jeff
And so, you know, they’re professional grievers. That’s what they’re doing. Right? So, um, so Jesus is trying to change how people think by being very intentional with the words he’s choosing. And they’re they’re kind of dense and they don’t pick up on it. So it finally goes, come on, he’s dead. That’s that’s what I’m trying to say. He’s dead. Like you think of death, right? He’s dead.

Chris
That way. Lazarus is dead. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, he told them plainly. And for your sakes, I’m glad I wasn’t there. What? So think about that a minute. Mary and Martha call Jesus so their brother, um, it doesn’t mention their fathers, and it doesn’t mention their husbands, so very likely these are our spinsters. Perhaps they’re unmarried women. It appears, uh, they live with their brother. Their brother. Then it would be the main in that culture. Be the main provider for them.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
And, um. He’s dying. And so they call the most capable person in faith. Right. Jesus, would you come and rescue me? And Jesus goes, oh, Lazarus is sick. He’s going to die. Yeah. Let’s hang out here for a couple more days.

Chris
Intentionally. Yeah. And then he is that cold hearted. Uh, well, no, because. Because it’s interesting. Because you know how, like, um, I think some things are reserved specifically for, uh, Jesus on earth to display God’s glory and to prove his messiahship. Yeah. Yeah. I think that this miracle in particular was definitely, uh, a miracle reserve to prove his claim to be the Messiah. So it’s not applicable. Honestly. Honestly, people always I mean, it is the principles are applicable, right? But the specific circumstances are not applicable. Right. Because, uh, because, you know, people would say, oh, well, Jesus. Uh, uh, delayed and therefore we could apply this to our lives. No, because he literally says, uh, I’m glad for your sakes. I wasn’t there for now. You will really believe. Come. And then, before he announces the reason why he died, he says Lazarus sickness will not end in death. No, it happened for the glory of God. So that that means for the purpose of in the Greek, the Son of Man will receive glory. From this he’s referring to himself, specifically Son of God. Yep. Or excuse me. Yeah, the Son of God. And so he’s referring to himself specifically attached to this exact circumstances. So earlier, you know, he always, uh, he actually says, um, you remember when they said, was this man born blind because of his sins or his parents sins? And he says, no, this particular man was born blind. So that so that everybody will see the glory of God in this moment. Right? Right. And so that’s not the case with every blind person, right? Right. It’s just that it was the case for that person. And I think that sometimes, um, I always, I always have this tension. Chris
I feel sometimes when people think that just because Jesus did something, that it always equals like 100% of the time, it always equals. And that’s what we should be doing, or that’s what we can do or, or should be doing, because Jesus did it right. But there are specific parts in the Scripture where Jesus says, I’ve, I’ve, I’m doing these things for one reason. Yeah. So that so that people would know that I’m the Messiah. Right. Well, I got news for you. Unless you’re the Messiah, you shouldn’t be doing those things right. Nor does God give you power to do those things. So. So it’s like, yes. Do I believe that in some cases God can raise from the dead through a Christian? Yes, I do, I’ve not seen it personally either. But do I believe that that can happen? Yes.

Jeff
Well, Paul raised people from the dead.

Chris
That’s right, that’s right. And, uh, and so I believe that that can happen. Yeah. Uh, so I’m not saying that it’s, you know, power isn’t given to every Christian. So don’t misunderstand me. I’m just saying that in this particular case, this specific.

Jeff
Event was for the glory.

Chris
For the glory of God, of God. Because keep in mind, too, that, uh, this we’re getting so close to Jesus entering into Jerusalem. We’re getting close to his crucifixion. Well, that’s.

Jeff
Why Thomas said, well, let’s just go die with Jesus. If he’s going back, they’re going to kill him. Let’s go die with him, right? Right. That’s what he thought was going to.

Chris
Happen, because keep in mind, remember when when Jesus enters into the Palm Sunday, when he comes over that road and everybody lays down their branches and they say, you know, Hosanna. Uh, it says that many were there because they had heard about the miracle of Lazarus. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So this is one of the biggest things that he does.

Jeff
Oh, well, there’s even the Pharisees acknowledged that he raised. Yeah. You know, we’ll see that over the next couple of days. Yeah. In our readings. But yeah. So, uh, one of my favorite things here is verse five. It says, so although Jesus loved Martha and Mary and Lazarus, he stayed where he was for the next two days. Right? So he loved them. It wasn’t that he was being, you know, inconsiderate or that he didn’t care or that he was being selfish. It was just that this was that important. But he did say, Lazarus sickness will not end in death. Then he refers to it as sleep. You know, um, for Christian, we shouldn’t fear death. Um, right now. Did did Lazarus his body die for a little while? Sure, it did die, but it didn’t end in death. The story didn’t end in death. And so to Jesus, one of the reasons why he refers to it, to sleep all the time is most of us aren’t afraid to go to sleep, right? As a matter of fact, there’s times when you want nothing more than to go to sleep, right? Right. I can remember my grandmother got, uh, sicker towards the end, and she mentioned on a couple different occasions to my dad. I’m just ready to go. I want to go to heaven. Right. Um, and there is something about that that for for a godly person, you’re not afraid of going to sleep, right? And so for Jesus, Jesus is looking at Lazarus. There’s worse things than dying physically. And by the way, the story is not going to end with his death anyways. So Lazarus really has nothing to fear. And I’m I’m going to be there. And so he loves them.

Jeff
He just holds off for a while. Um, and I think that there is something to that. There’s nothing to fear about death. Yeah. When we really see it the way Jesus sees it, that’s why he’s being so. With the words he’s using.

Chris
Yeah. And then this is a great principle application that God’s purposes may not be our purposes. God’s ways are higher than our ways. God’s timing is different than our timing. Those principles all apply. Uh, by the way, have you ever heard John Crist, the Christian comedian, talk about this, this story in the Bible.

Jeff
The resurrection?

Chris
No, no. Lazarus.

Jeff
Lazarus.

Chris
Well, Lazarus is resurrection. Yeah. Have you ever heard it? It’s pretty funny.

Jeff
He talks about for tomorrow’s story. Because resurrection. His resurrection hasn’t happened yet.

Chris
Oh, yeah. You want to save it for tomorrow? Is that what you’re saying?

Jeff
I don’t know, I was just asking.

Chris
Yeah. All right, well, you know what? Let’s. Let’s do a teaser. I’m going to save my.

Jeff
You have a funny story for tomorrow.

Chris
A funny story for tomorrow, uh, with John. Chris the comedian, which is really funny. Okay, so. And actually, we’re pretty much at that time anyway, so, uh, that’ll be it for us. And we’ll pick up with part two of this story tomorrow on the Bible.

Jeff
So, so the highlight verse 12.

Chris
You shut me down.

Jeff
The disciples said, Lord, if he’s sleeping, he’ll soon get better. Yeah. So with death, the way that we see it, if we’re sleeping, we’ll soon be better. If you have a believer that’s dying, if you’re on the verge of dying. I just had a close friend who passed away. Um, and she was looking forward to going to heaven because she knew she would get better. That, I think, is the theme or the idea that we we talked about a bunch of general things, but I wanted to close out to say. If you really see it, how Jesus sees it, it’s just going to sleep and you will be better then there’s no fear of what happens tomorrow. There’s no fear of death. There’s no fear of anything. So I just want to drive that home. I didn’t get to say that. So. Yeah. Sorry for interrupting you. No, it’s all right.

Chris
Can I close?

Jeff
Close out. Sign off. You’re not gonna interrupt me, I might.

Chris
Okay. All right. So.

Chris
We’ll see you on The Bible Guys.