Transcription

Connor

You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways. 

Jeff

I like that the rolling says that we’re a couple of friends. I mean, you’re starting to grow on me. At the beginning, it was just a marketing thing. And now I think you’re starting to grow on me. 

Chris

It’s just a marketing thing, you know? We shopped, we workshopped all kinds of words, and they chose friends. They said. 

Jeff

They said the persona we’re trying to work out. 

Chris

Said friends plays best. Yeah. That’s pretty. 

Jeff

Funny. So. So now, I mean, you’re growing on me, man. I enjoy these. 

Chris

Well welcome everybody. He’s Jeff, I’m Chris. We’re the Bible guys. And today, before we dive into the scriptures, we have our little show sheet that handed to us on our phones. And this week, actually, it was Kyle, I think, who wrote. 

Jeff

Yeah he did. Yeah. Yeah. 

Chris

It wasn’t Desiree because she’s out sick. So he wrote Thanksgiving is this week. So share stories. When your family Thanksgiving went completely off the rails, perhaps a Thanksgiving mishap or some very memorable ones. Oh, wow. 

Jeff

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I’m on the record last week saying that Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday. You are. 

Chris

On the record. 

Jeff

Right? So yeah, but it’s mostly nostalgic stuff, you know, great dinners with the family. A lot of times Thanksgiving is the one, you know, my brother travels full time and his family and then my other brothers did, too. And so it was hard to get everybody together all the time. But Thanksgiving was a lot of times the time that we could. And so, yeah, I have a lot of good memories. It’s usually food and football and that kind of thing. 

Chris

Right? Right. Yeah. 

Jeff

What about you? 

Chris

Well, I have a sentimental side. And then a very eventful one. My favorite Thanksgivings are the ones that we had over my grandpa’s house because he, you know, I just loved them. And I don’t really have that many memories of them. And one of the memories that I have of them constantly was Thanksgiving. You know, it’s funny what you remember as a kid, but I remember grandma used frozen corn instead of canned corn. Oh, because we were all canned corn kind of people. So that was. And we loved how her corn tasted and didn’t find out until we were older. It was just frozen. Frozen? Yeah. 

Jeff

Yeah. It wasn’t soggy corn. Yeah. 

Chris

Right. Right. And then. And then anyway. But but I also loved the kids table. We had a big kids table. Oh yeah. So so that’s the sentimental side. 

Jeff

What is the kids table look like? I mean it’s three cards. 

Chris

Table three card tables put together with all the cousins and. And how many. 

Jeff

Of you were there. 

Chris

Like, oh, I don’t know. There’s a million. 

Jeff

Little zabars running. 

Chris

Around 8 or 10 of us, I guess. I don’t know, but but the best part was did they have like. 

Jeff

Security there as you guys kind of grew up hellions, so did they have to have like, did your grandparents have bouncers at each end of the. 

Chris

No, no no no they didn’t. No they didn’t. Okay. 

Jeff

They just put away all the valuables before you guys came. Is that. Well, you. 

Chris

Know, we were rambunctious for sure. We played football in the living room and got in trouble one time. But anyway, the funny story about that is one time over that exact location. My Uncle John and Aunt Kay visited from Tennessee, and they brought this dog. And back when I was a little boy, this sheepdog seemed like it was a monster dog, just massive. And I remember like, you know, it was sitting down and and I had walked over to it and I was, you know, approaching the dog right in front of its face and just ready to go pet it, you know. And the dog I thought was going to allow me to pet it. And my brother or my cousin Eric ran and jumped on its back like a horse. And the dog got so scared that it bit me and chewed my face off and had to have 12 stitches. Wow. On the side of my jaw. Wow. Which is where I had this scar right here. Wow. Yeah. 

Jeff

Chewed your face off. 

Chris

Yeah, the whole thing was off and it only. So this is what they gave you? They repaired it. They repaired it with 12 stitches. 

Jeff

A chance to fix your face. And that’s what they gave you. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Do you think that dog, like, was planning it? If these kids caused me a trauma, I’m biting that one. 

Chris

I think the dog was unsure. And already when a human is approaching it, that’s unfamiliar, you know, the dog’s already deciding whether or not it’s going to growl or not, and all of a sudden this human jumps on its back. And so he’s thinking danger in front of me because. 

Jeff

He’s making eye contact with you. Yeah. Like if anything goes down, I’m biting that one first. Yeah. 

Chris

So, you know, I don’t I don’t blame the dog. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it was my cousin Eric Stitches. Yeah. 

Jeff

Was it before or after dinner? 

Chris

It was before dinner. What. Yeah I think I missed the whole dinner. Well, that really. 

Jeff

Messes things up. 

Chris

Doesn’t it? Yeah, yeah, because we had just. 

Jeff

Come in in time for the. 

Chris

Football. Come in. Yeah. Right. To see the Detroit Lions lose. Yeah. We had just come in and I just was introducing myself to the dog. Wow. So yeah, it was terrible. Wow. 

Jeff

That is terrible. Hey. 

Chris

But I did get to drive to the hospital in my aunt Carol’s smoking the bandit Corvette or Trans Trans Am. 

Jeff

Oh. 

Chris

Really? Yeah. 

Jeff

It was. Well, that makes it worth it. 

Chris

It was straight up a replica. 

Jeff

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s great. Smokey and the bandit. That was. That was the pinnacle car for me as a kid. Yes, it was wonderful. Kind of still is. Oh, really? If I could get one, I would get one. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. One of our listeners wants to drop one off at my house. 

Chris

That’d be great. Yeah, I’m sure one of our listeners is moved to do that right now. 

Jeff

Actually, I found one on Car Gurus one time and it was like 80, 89 grand. Yeah, yeah, 90 grand, something like that. 

Chris

That’s funny. Yeah. So my I think I mentioned this on the podcast before, but black. 

Jeff

And gold. 

Chris

My favorite car is like the 19. It’s actually a range but like a 68 Corvette like white in color. And we mentioned it way back when during actually when it was daylight. 

Jeff

Yeah I remember yeah. 

Chris

And and then a gentleman, Ray Thompson, came to the church and he actually gave me a model car. He had bought it online and built it and put it in a glass case and said, here’s your dream car. 

Jeff

It’s the closest it’s ever going to get for you, right? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Well that’s awesome. Yeah, Thanksgiving is great. And then, of course, you know, one of my other great memories. My dad always will stand. He’s he’s in his 80s now, but he’ll always stand and he’ll share something from Scripture and just talk about the things we should be grateful for and thankful for it. Thanksgiving. And that’s you know, those are probably there aren’t many of those left. You know what I mean? So that’s that’s really special too. That’s cool. Yeah. Well, hey, we are finishing up this story in Luke chapter ten. Yesterday we talked about how Jesus sent out the 72 messengers. Remember that? And so today they’re coming back. 

Chris

Well, it’s Friday, we said that. 

Jeff

Yeah yeah, yeah. Was it Friday? Yeah, it was Friday. Well it was it depends on when our listeners listened. They could listen to it this morning. That’s true. Yeah that’s true. They could binge or this evening. 

Chris

They binge the Bible. 

Jeff

Binge the Bible guys. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve heard that’s really catching on, by the way. Yeah. People are really been bingeing. 

Chris

The wave is hitting America. 

Jeff

Okay, so last week we we talked about that. And so now we’re picking up. They’re all coming back. So they’ve been gone all weekend and now they’re coming back okay. Here it goes. Verse 17 it says when the 72 disciples returned they joyfully reported to him, Lord, even the demons obey us when we use your name. Yes. He told them, I saw, I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. Look, I’ve given you authority over all the power of the enemy, and you can walk among snakes and scorpions and crush them, and nothing will injure you. But don’t rejoice because evil spirits obey you. Rejoice because your names are registered in heaven. At that same time, Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit and he said, Oh father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, father. It pleased you to do it this way. My father is entrusted everything to me. No one really knows the son except the father, and no one truly knows the father except the son, and those to whom the son chooses to reveal him. Then when they were alone, he turned to the disciples and said, blessed are the eyes that see what you have seen. I tell you, many prophets and kings longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it, and they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it. Mhm. Wow. 

Chris

Yeah. There’s a lot. 

Jeff

There. They come back and go woo hoo Jesus. 

Chris

It worked right, right. Yeah. Well that’s the first thing right. I mean an exclamation mark which means like they are just like flabbergasted. Yeah. And by the way they should be because Jesus has just told them that they’re going to have power to do great things. Yeah. And then he sends them out and they’re thinking, okay, up until this point, I’ve only seen Jesus do great things, right? And and, you know, Peter walked on water. Sure. Right. But Jesus was right there, you know, calling him to him. So. And he had sent. 

Jeff

Them out before, right? He sent out the 12 to go to go share the gospel and to announce that the kingdom of heaven was near, and to cast out demons and those kinds of things. But even then they had trouble, right? 

Chris

They had some trouble. But this also says the ones who were amazed with the 72. Yeah. Which is even more we’re assuming that it’s more than just the 12. Oh, yeah. Like at least 60 more. Yeah. Right. Right. 

Jeff

Because I just did that math real quick in my head. 

Chris

No, I’m saying who said this comment. Yeah. 

Jeff

Yeah. These these 72 might not be the 12. 

Chris

Right. That’s what I was saying. I was saying like who, who, who were the people who reported to him and said this statement. Yeah. Yeah, right. We’re assuming it’s outside the 12. 

Jeff

Yes. But it was at least 60 smart. 

Chris

Alec. Yeah. And then and then by the way, because I’m a movie guy and I think that a lot of people are like this, by the way, I think I think most people are like this when you hear a phrase like Jesus said, I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. There’s no way that you’re not visualizing that. Oh yeah, right. You’re visualizing this. And I could I could see it and it is just well, it’s terrifying and it’s probably something to see at the same time, I want to see, I want to say awesome. But actually everything about it is really sad, isn’t it? But but still, the spectacle, I’m. 

Jeff

Sure, was. 

Chris

Amazing. Yeah. And and so anyway, so that happens by the way. Uh, think about that statement. So Jesus, who you know, was and is and is to come, right? He’s eternal. He says, I was there. I saw when that happened. Yeah, yeah. 

Jeff

So they’re like, Jesus, we cast demons out of people. Jesus says, yeah, I was there when we cast Satan out of heaven. Right. That’s that’s really what he said. Yeah. Yeah. So saw something like that before. 

Chris

Right? 

Chris

Right. And if you think about it, what is the don’t don’t say this out loud, but I wonder if our listeners know what is the oldest book in the Bible in terms of when it was written. Oh, like so the little trivia. There you go. So if our if our listeners want to take a guess. Yeah, you know, a guess out loud because we’re going to we’re going to tell you the answer. 

Jeff

So the oldest book in the Bible. Yeah. 

Chris

The one that was the the one that was written first. First. Yes. Yeah. The one that was written first. And so many people might think Genesis but it’s not, it’s not. 

Jeff

No. 

Chris

You know the answer to this. 

Jeff

I do know the. 

Chris

Answer to this. Let’s go ahead. Reveal it. 

Jeff

Doo doo doo doo. It’s the book of. Yes. Job. Job? 

Chris

Yes. 

Jeff

Job. 

Chris

The book of job. The book of job. Yeah. Yeah, right. And doesn’t job talk about the angels falling? One third of the angels falling. 

Jeff

So Isaiah does. 

Chris

Oh, it’s not in the book of job I missed that I missed quote the Bible talks. 

Jeff

Job talks about how the sons of God were coming before the throne and that God and Satan interacted during that time. 

Chris

That’s okay. Okay. Okay. Well, so I remember I remember this scene. Yeah. 

Jeff

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So Isaiah talks about being thrown out of heaven and that’s that’s Isaiah I think it’s in our notes I saw it Isaiah 14 okay is where is the passage where people believe that that’s where he cast them out of heaven was there. And then a third of all the angels is mentioned in the book of revelation. 

Chris

So I was in my mind thinking, the Book of Job is the oldest written. Yeah. So, so here at this time they would have known that, by the way. Yes, they would have known that job was the ancient manuscript. And so if it’s referring to Satan and God interacting in heaven, Jesus’s claim is like, yeah, I was there for those things. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That’s what I was thinking. Yep, yep. And and it’s just amazing how, you know, he just throws that comment out and it doesn’t record. People go whoa whoa whoa back up. Yeah yeah. 

Jeff

Nope. Not at all. Right. He just makes this declaration right right. 

Chris

Right right right. 

Jeff

So if you’re not familiar Isaiah 14, it literally the quote is how are you fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning. And then it talks about how Lucifer had risen up and wanted to put his throne above the throne of God, and that he was going to have people worship him and all all those things. And it described him originally. He has pipes in him. He’s he’s literally a living musical instrument. He hovered over the throne of God. So it was this perpetual he’s like the worship leader in heaven. So you got to watch out for those worship leaders, by the way, and and hovering over the throne of God perpetually in the presence of God. And in that context, he began to be prideful about his position and his power and his influence. He’s the highest ranking angel, apparently, and he starts to decide, I could take this guy on. Right? And a third of the angels, according book revelation, say we think he could win one out of three. That’s how you want to wonder. You wonder how powerful our enemy is. One out of three angels who saw God and saw Lucifer went, we’re with Lucifer, right? And so full on mutiny in heaven. And then that’s what I believe Jesus is talking about. He watched him get thrown out of heaven. So some theologians believe that that’s what he’s talking about is being thrown out of heaven because of his sin. Other theologians believe that what he’s talking about here is it’s a foreshadowing. He can see Satan losing at the cross. So it depends on what you think Isaiah is talking about. Right. So I think that’s interesting. Yeah. I think traditionally for us we would say he is talking about a thing that happened in the past right. 

Chris

Yeah. Yeah. Well he did say I was there. 

Jeff

Yeah. So the next question our listeners are going to say is yeah, he, he is was and is to come. 

Chris

I see God’s outside of time. 

Jeff

Yeah. Yeah. So anyways the that’s how they would argue that. But so the next question our listeners are going to ask is so when did it happen. Did it happen before the Garden of Eden. Did it happen during the Garden of Eden? Is it Jesus talking about something that happened after the Garden of Eden? If so, why was Satan in heaven giving account to God in the book of Job? Right? So and so. Let’s just preemptively avoid the stump the pastor thing and go, we don’t know. 

Chris

Yeah, right. We don’t know. Right? 

Jeff

We do know that these it seems like Satan was cast out of heaven, certainly before Adam and Eve sinned. But we don’t know if he’s cast out of heaven before or after creation. 

Chris

I mean, although there is room there where, where, where it doesn’t have to be before that. We’re assuming that because he was he was going against what God was doing. Yeah. Well, before. 

Jeff

Before they sinned, he had already become an evil person. 

Chris

But but but how do we know? How do we know? So. Oh, so I see what you’re saying. 

Jeff

You’re saying before Adam and Eve sinned. Yeah. Lucifer had shifted into Satan. 

Chris

Oh, because, see, I’m open to hearing the explanation on this. So what? I’m what I’m what I’m asking is, is how do you how do we know for sure that he wasn’t still a part of heaven when he came down and deceived Adam and Eve? Like what proof is there? 

Jeff

Well, the whole concept being that he would be evil. Right, right. And so maybe. 

Chris

He was evil before he was cast out. Or are you saying it was his? 

Jeff

It was his pride. Jesus talks about that. He warns them about that kind of pride. Right? He was cast out of heaven because of his pride, because of his evil pride. And then that caused him to war against God and the and the image of God. He can’t defeat God. So he goes after the image of God. People. Yeah, right. 

Chris

Yeah, but but it still doesn’t say when he was cast out, he could have had pride long before he was cast out. 

Jeff

Yeah, I think that. Sure. 

Chris

All I’m saying is there’s room there. Yeah. 

Jeff

But so what most people would say is that he was cast out before Adam and Eve sinned. And then job was referring to God calling all of the universe to account. So everybody come back before me because God is still the God of Satan, which is really crazy, right? Right. He still has authority over Satan. So in that instance, then he’s calling all these people, you know, all of the angels and the universe back to account. And it’s in that encounter that then you have the story of job coming up. 

Chris

Yeah. And by the way. 

Jeff

It wasn’t that Lucifer was living in heaven at that point, but was brought back. 

Chris

And just just in case you’re wondering, I believe it was before Adam and Eve. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I’m just playing angels advocate. 

Jeff

Angels advocate. There you go. Yeah. So that’s interesting. But here’s the thing I love. First of all, they go, wow, Jesus, man. We got even the demons obeyed us. Now it’s incredibly important to remember this is the 72 not the 12. These are so the 12 were normal everyday guys. Let’s let’s just say that they’re fishermen and tax collectors and businessmen and political zealots. They’re not religious elite, right. But we make we make statues of them. We name church buildings after them. We call them saints. We call them saints. Right? So we sometimes go, it’s them and us, right? They’re way above us. Right. But these 72, they don’t have any names. 

Chris

And by the way, that’s a crazy concept, considering the fact that the Bible goes out of its way to sort of highlight the fallibility of all of the people in the Bible. 

Jeff

Well, if I was the devil, I would not want all the Christians to believe that they had the same kind of power that those 12 did. Right? Right. So if I can get all the other Christians to sit on their hands and go, well, there’s some elites that they really have power, but none of us that power is not available to us. Right? And so if nothing else, let me set this back down. If nothing else. The fact that these are unnamed 72 people who just also happen to be followers of Jesus. They have power to the point where they’re casting out demons in Jesus name. And seemed to be more successful than the 12. 

Chris

Well, because. Because they’re not saying they’re having trouble. Right, right. 

Jeff

They’re not coming on, man. We’re struggling with this, right? They come back and they’re celebrating it. You and I, as everyday Christians and everybody listening, as everyday Christians, just understand there’s so much spiritual power. At your disposal. But the devil’s got us convinced that we don’t have any power. 

Chris

Right? And they’re reserved only for the. 

Jeff

It’s only for the. 

Chris

Giants of the faith. 

Jeff

And so that’s a big part of it. And then Jesus, Jesus is enthusiastic. So he’s like, yeah, he’s you think that’s something you should have seen when Satan fell out of heaven? I was there for that one. Right. So that was neat. And I just I love his enthusiasm there. But then he gets to verse 20. He says, but don’t rejoice because evil spirits obey you. Rejoice because your names are registered in heaven. So even then Jesus is giving a he’s kind of keeping them. Priorities in the right place, right? It’s not about doing all these powerful things and about waging war in the spirit. Sometimes people get really distracted by demons and exorcisms and all this kind of stuff. 

Chris

Or and prideful that, you know, they’re the ones that God is using and really in any way. 

Jeff

And so he’s letting them, reminding them there are things more important than being able to walk around and make the devil do what you want him to do. Right. And that is that your name is in in heaven. And, you know, in Book of Revelation it says the second book is opened and who’s whoever’s name was not found written in the Lamb’s Book of Life was cast. And Lake of Fire. Right. This is the second death. So this is a really big deal. He’s saying, hey, there’s eternal things that are a lot bigger than just what can you do with demons, right? There are there are eternal things that are more important than miracles, which is really weird because when you and I think we think of Aunt Betty’s gallbladder, or we think of somebody’s cancer, or we think of somebody that needs a miracle, that miracle to us would be the single greatest thing that could ever happen. And what he’s saying is more important than any miracle, more important than ever. Binding any demon is that people’s names are in the Lamb’s Book of Life. That’s more important. So don’t get distracted because he didn’t send them out there just to cast out demons. He sent them out there to tell everybody that the kingdom of heaven is near, right? Right. And and so repent and turn to God. And so don’t get distracted by all the miraculous. Remember, the most important thing is that your name is in the Lamb’s Book of Life. 

Chris

That’s great. Yeah. 

Chris

So and then it continues on where he says, there’s a, there’s a place there where it says, at the same time, Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, which is really cool, right? And then he talks about the father and the son, and he says, no one can know the father except for the son, and no one can know the son except for the father. But notice that he doesn’t include the Holy Spirit. So he doesn’t say, no one can know the father except for the son. Oh, and sidebar here’s the Holy Spirit. But we have to keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is a part of the equation because it actually includes the Holy Spirit right there. And Jesus. Just because Jesus didn’t talk about it, didn’t mean that the Holy Spirit isn’t a part of the equation. It just means that Jesus had not yet revealed the Holy Spirit to the people, right? Because he doesn’t until he is later on. He says, hey, when I leave this planet, it’ll be better because the one who comes after me will be better, right? Yeah. So? 

Jeff

So the Holy Spirit’s job is not to draw attention to himself. Right? So Jesus is surrounded by totally enveloped in the presence of and the joy of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit never, ever draws attention to himself in the Bible. He always points to the father and the son. Right? And so if you ever have somebody who’s claiming. The presence of Holy Spirit in their life, and all they can do is talk about the Holy Spirit. Holy spirit, Holy Spirit drawing attention to themselves that may be a fabricated thing and not a true thing, because you never find the Holy Spirit drawing attention to himself. You only ever see the Holy Spirit pushing and promoting the father and the son. And so that’s a big indicator to look at how the Holy Spirit interacts with Jesus. And it’s never about the Holy Spirit. It’s always about Jesus and the father. Yeah, yeah. 

Chris

The other one. Yeah, yeah. 

Jeff

Yeah, it’s kind of neat. 

Chris

That’s great. Yeah. Well hey, that’s about our time. So that’s a really great place to end. And we will pick it up next time on the Bible, guys.