Transcription

Chris
So Jeff, who said this elementary, my dear Watson, Sherlock Holmes. And he said it based on the evidence of every case evidence.

Jeff
There you go.

Chris
Well that’s what we’re talking about today.

Jeff
Testimony and evidence.

Chris
Well, the evidence that supports the claim that Jesus is the Son of God.

Jeff
There you go. So he’s Chris and I’m Jeff and we’re the Bible guys. Okay. Chris.

Chris
Yes.

Jeff
So we have a big one for you today. Yeah.

Chris
I always get nervous about these.

Jeff
Yeah, well, you always know it’s either going to be a movie or. What are you mad about? Those are the two things that those are the only two things Desiree thinks, you know.

Chris
Yeah, apparently. I don’t know how I got sucked into this, you know? You know what’s so funny? Before. Before the Bible, guys? Um, uh, I think people knew that I liked movies, but I don’t think it’s ever been talked about as much.

Jeff
As much.

Chris
Uh, although I am a movie cool person, I’ve always done that my whole life. Yeah, I do that in almost every scenario.

Jeff
Oh, in most meetings, you go, hey, did you ever see that movie? And then you’ll quote something I’m like, no, I never, never saw that movie. And you have to tell me the movie. And then. Yeah.

Chris
And most of the time I’m by myself. Most of the time everybody goes, no, no, no, nobody. Nobody’s with you.

Jeff
So anyways, uh, so here’s what we’re going to do. I’m going to read, uh, famous movie quotes, and then you have to see how fast you can guess what movie it’s.

Chris
So that’s what it is. It’s a race. The listeners are going to try to race it. Right.

Jeff
So the bonus is the listeners.

Chris
So if you’re listening to this, say it out loud, and if you beat me saying it out loud, then I guess you win.

Jeff
Then you win a point. You win.

Chris
A point. If they do.

Jeff
10,000 points, we’re going to give them 10,000 points for every time.

Chris
They beat you. So generous. 10,000 points that mean nothing. Points are.

Jeff
Free. Yeah. Here we go. Ready? Yep. Why so serious?

Chris
Oh, uh, the the Dark Knight. Oh, yeah.

Jeff
That one took a long time.

Chris
That was actually, um, the slogan for the movie. That’s right. That was the subtitle on the poster. So serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Okay. This one you should get really quickly. Hasta la vista, baby.

Chris
Oh my goodness. Uh, Terminator. Uh, Terminator number one. No, no, number two, number two. Number two I got it, I corrected it, I corrected it two.

Jeff
Judgment day, judgment day. There you go. Yeah, it took a while. People. You you’ve had a chance for 20,000 points on these first two. That’s right. All right. Um, I was thinking.

Chris
I’ll be back. That’s number.

Jeff
One. Okay. This one I would, I would, I’ve seen it, but I would forget it. Okay. You is kind. You is smart. You is important.

Chris
Oh, yeah, I know that. That’s when she’s holding the the daughter the the, um. The help.

Jeff
There you go.

Chris
It’s called the help because, um, she was rocking the little granddaughter, and she says you is kind, you is smart. You important, you is important. It’s very, very.

Jeff
Three of those. You got them.

Chris
Right.

Jeff
Very sweet. All three of those was really late. You’re right.

Chris
So I try to I try to go quick. Here we go.

Jeff
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

Chris
Uh, the Godfather. Uh, two, two. There you go. Because. Because, uh, it was Al Pacino who said that, no doubt. And he didn’t become the godfather till the end of one.

Jeff
Okay. And then with great power comes great Spider-Man.

Chris
Nobody beat me there. That was easy.

Jeff
There you go. Very good. Chris. Yeah, you’re my favorite.

Chris
There it is. Yeah.

Jeff
Good job. Okay. And here’s the bonus one.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
What, like it’s hard.

Chris
Oh, I don’t know that one. What, like it’s hard. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I know, I have no idea.

Jeff
She says it’s Legally Blonde.

Chris
Oh, of course, that’s when she, uh, she gets into Harvard, and then she runs into her boyfriend. That’s why she went there. And then he goes, you got into Harvard Law, and she goes, what? Like it’s hard. That’s hilarious. There you go.

Jeff
Remember that scene now that was that was that was a bonus. But that thousand.

Chris
Points that could have been anything. Yeah. Well until you could have reminded me. Yeah.

Jeff
Okay.

Jeff
So, uh, hey, there’s a real chance that some of our other movie aficionados out there be me. Chris. They could have beat you by 60,000 points.

Chris
Yeah, except for the fact that I’m the one in the pressure chair. You’re not in the pressure chair. I am.

Jeff
But but so do you understand how big of a gap this could be if people beat you on five of the six questions? Yeah, they could be 50,000 points ahead of you. 50,000? I’m not talking five points or 100 points. They’re 50 people. Somebody one of our listeners is 50,000 points ahead of you.

Chris
I am trash, I am garbage.

Jeff
And that’s the benefit of giving 10,000 points for every time somebody beats you.

Chris
Funny.

Jeff
Okay, so, uh, thank you for putting Chris in his correct place. For those of you who are listening.

Chris
Yeah, well, let us know. By the way. Let us know if you beat me.

Jeff
Here we go. So, uh, which.

Chris
By the way, is probably a good time to say, um, uh, take just a second. If you’re on Spotify and write a review, you know, give us a like.

Jeff
Yeah. Or on Apple if you listen on the Apple podcast.

Chris
If you’re on Apple Podcast, uh, uh, maybe share uh, because there’s computer magic with algorithms. Yeah. That really help further this podcast. And you’d be surprised taking just what probably how long would it take to do that.

Jeff
Not long at all. If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Chris
20s maybe.

Jeff
Yeah, not very long at all. Yeah, depends on how fast you can type with your thumbs. Yeah.

Chris
And if you do that, then, uh, you’d be surprised, uh, if we have 15,000 downloads per month and, you know, in half of everybody takes 20s, you’d be surprised how much further this thing will go. Yeah, it.

Jeff
Helps it get out everywhere else. And so on Spotify and on, um, uh, Apple. What you have to do is leave a review. So five stars. Of course we need the five stars. Of course, if it’s not five stars, explain why Chris makes you mad, right? That would be the reason. But, uh, five stars. If you love the podcast and then leave a little comment. And that really helps. We need to get a couple thousand of those reviews as quickly as we can. So that’ll help with the algorithms. And I don’t know how that magic works behind the scenes. It just matters. So yeah, it does matter.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Good. Well thank you guys so much for doing that. So, uh, we’re continuing with the same story. It began on Friday where Jesus heals a guy on the Sabbath. The guy doesn’t know who heals him.

Chris
He began on our Friday’s podcast. Yeah. Last Friday. Not in the scriptures.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, last Friday’s podcast. And, uh, so then Jesus heals on it. It might have been, though, because Friday evening is the beginning of the Sabbath.

Chris
Oh, boom boom.

Jeff
Boom, man.

Chris
Not really slam dunk, not really. But, um, um, more like, uh, drop the mic.

Jeff
Yeah. So sound effects now. Hey, that’s what if this podcast thing doesn’t work out for us, maybe we can just get a second career.

Chris
Like David Letterman used to have all those. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, sound effects.

Jeff
So, uh, Jesus heals a guy on the Sabbath. Uh, the religious leaders are mad about it. Yeah. Yesterday in our podcast, we talked about the fact that Jesus said, actually, I’m the Son of God. And, uh, um, you know, begins deception. And then now they’re really upset. Yeah, they go from just being mad about him healing somebody on the Sabbath to wanting to kill him for claiming to be the Son of God. So then here we go in verse 30, uh, John chapter five, verse 31, um, Jesus begins to support his claim. And he said, if I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid. But someone else is also testifying about me. And I assure you that everything he says about me is true. In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist, and his testimony about me was true. Of course, I have no need of human witnesses, but I say these things so you might be saved. John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message. But I have a greater witness than John, my teachings and my miracles. The father gave me these works to accomplish, and they proved that he sent me. And the father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face, and you do not have his message in your hearts because you do not believe me, the one he sent to you. You search the scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the scriptures point to me, yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. Your approval means nothing to me because I know you don’t have God’s love within you.

Jeff
For I have come to you in my father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them. No wonder you can’t believe, for you gladly honor each other. But you don’t care about the honor that comes from the one who alone is God. Yet it isn’t I who will accuse you before the father. Moses will accuse you. Yes, Moses, in whom you put your hopes. If you really believed Moses, you would believe me, because he wrote about me. But since you don’t believe what he wrote, how will you believe? What I say.

Chris
Gee whiz. So. So he is. He’s not being unclear here. No, no.

Jeff
He’s he’s he’s pretty pretty much the way it is.

Chris
He’s pretty much being clear. You know, I, I love, um, how he refers to John the Baptist. Uh, there’s something there’s something that connects me with John the Baptist. I really do love the heart of John the Baptist.

Jeff
I thought you were gonna say you love honey and locusts.

Chris
No, I love honey. Honey. So. So, uh, you know, I think you know what I think it is. And, uh, and we’re gonna, uh. I’m not sure if we’ve even taught this yet. I don’t think we’ve gotten there as John the Baptist been killed yet. So far, we’ve done this. Okay, so we’re going to get there. I’ll share it later. But but it really is the last thing that that John sends word for, for Jesus. And he asks him, are you the one to come? So we’ll talk about that when he gets there. But really it has to do with this exact claim, doesn’t it? Yes. John the Baptist. Last question was about what Jesus is saying. Yeah. And, uh, and so I just, I love, uh, how Jesus is saying everything that John the Baptist is saying is true. And then he says everything that Moses has said is about me, and Moses is going to judge you one day, right? Well, think about it. Moses is dead, right? So what does that mean? What do you. He’s. Yeah. What he’s saying is there will be a time where you will be face to face with Moses, and he will tell you that the things he wrote and the things you know and study, they’re all about me. That’s just unbelievable.

Jeff
I think it’s interesting. Jesus is saying, how is it that some guy shows up at your home or shows up in your synagogue, just in his own reputation, and you accept him, or you go trotting out into the wilderness to go hear what John said, and you got excited about it for a while. Mhm. But you are just carte blanche rejecting me after Jesus has healed people. He raised a kid from the. Has he raised a kid from the dead yet? He’s healed people right. He’s he’s done all these incredible miracles up to this point. You’ve seen me do them and you keep rejecting me. Right? He said, because the two testimonies God gave me are my message and the miracles. And for some reason, you’ll accept some guy who walks into your synagogue. You enthusiastically accepted John for a while and for some reason, right off the top, they’re rejecting Jesus, the only one who’s been doing these miracles, right? And he’s like, you know, hey, if you don’t believe me, you’re never going to believe you know anything else God has to say.

Chris
The Life Application Study Bible has a note that says, uh, about verse number 45. The Pharisees prided themselves on being true followers of their ancestors, Moses. They were trying to follow every one of his laws to the letter, and they even added some of their own. Jesus is warning that Moses would accuse them, stung them to fury. Moses wrote about Jesus in Genesis 315, numbers 21 nine, numbers 2417. Deuteronomy 1815. Yet the religious leaders refused to believe Jesus when he came. So it’s giving us all the references that Jesus already knows, right? Right. So that’s really cool.

Jeff
Yeah. So then throughout this passage, this whole argument that he’s been having with the the religious leaders, he claimed to be equal with God, uh, he claimed to be the source of life, and he claimed to be the source of eternal life. Right. And so Jesus is being unequivocal about his position in the universe, of the authority that he has of his equality with God. And so I think this is important to remember. I think sometimes the whole concept of the Trinity, the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, um, or we came from a Baptist background, so we’re not even sure the Holy Spirit. Right. So it’s the father, son and the other one. Right? We won. Yeah. We weren’t really sure about the Holy Spirit thing, but I’m just joking about that. Of course, but so the Trinity, it’s.

Chris
Something you realize when you sort of unlearn some of the things you’ve learned.

Jeff
That’s correct. That’s correct.

Chris
That’s that’s what he’s referring to.

Jeff
So the concept of the Trinity is difficult to wrap your head around. I mean, it’s three distinct personalities, yet one, God that that’s that’s a difficult thing. But then maybe equally as difficult for many people, um, unless you really dig in theologically is to understand Jesus wasn’t just a guy. I that God liked a lot and was like, wow, he says some really good stuff and he’s a really moral guy. I’m going to make him have power to be able to do miracles. I’m going to make him famous. Everybody’s going to talk about him for 2000 years. Right? So Jesus wasn’t some guy God liked and decided to use as his messenger. The Bible says in Colossians and others, Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God, right? So Jesus is God in the flesh. God limited himself from being everywhere and to being somewhere, and he put himself in time and space, where before he was unlimited in time and space. And so he allowed the son to be limited into a human body. And in that context, it was very difficult for the theologians of Jesus day to wrap their head around this unlimited God being an unlimited human being. Yeah, right. And it wasn’t that God was in Jesus. Jesus was God. And that was two levels beyond their comprehension.

Chris
Yeah. And doesn’t it also say in Colossians that Jesus was a part of creation? Yeah, yeah. He said he created all things and through him all things are created. So the idea that Jesus was there from the very beginning. Yeah. Paul actually wrote Colossians to the city of Colossians Calosha. Right. And he and he’s the one that explained that. And so when you when you hear that, you know, you have to understand that the New Testament wasn’t written when they heard that from Paul. Right? So the only thing they understood was Genesis. Yeah. And which is again, the Book of Moses. So, so they, they, they were able to, you know, connect those dots. And that’s just a big claim.

Jeff
Sometimes I have a little bit of compassion for the Pharisees and the, the religious leaders. Sure. Because they had compassion.

Chris
For them all the time.

Jeff
They had it so rooted in them that there’s one God, right? And we’re not God. Yeah, right. So that was really rooted in them and that we’re not trying to attain some kind of Godhead or godhood where we are submitted to God. That was so deeply rooted in them. They had no framework. Um, now it was in Scripture, but there wasn’t anybody who had explained or taught it in this way in a long time that God would become a man and come and pay the ultimate sacrifice. And so because of that, they were defending their belief system against what appeared to be a heretic. That’s what they thought. Well, that’s.

Chris
That’s very much it’s.

Jeff
Incomprehensible to.

Chris
Them. Oh for sure. But that’s very much a view that’s believing the best. That’s the Nicodemus of the world. Right? Yeah. So like so like I have compassion on the Nicodemus of the world. I have compassion on Paul. You know who was used to be Saul, right?

Jeff
Yeah. The killer. Paul. Yeah. The killer. Saul. Yeah, yeah. Have compassion on him.

Chris
Yes. Because again, uh, it’s not about the deeds. Uh, it’s about the heart. So. So in other words, like, um, the Pharisees who manipulated the crowd and and, uh, told them or, you know, threatened them to, to all yell, Crucify Jesus, right. They knew that wasn’t good, right? Those who manipulated and lied, those who, uh, you know, uh, sought to kill Jesus by by, uh, you know, by because they were threatened with his power. Right. So those are heart things that I have no compassion for, which I believe is what Jesus spoke against.

Jeff
So I think what you had there, though, just to push back just a little bit on that, what you had there was their law demanded that a blasphemer be executed. But the Romans had taken their authority, that authority, the sanhedrin’s authority. Prior to the Romans, they had the authority to execute. Sure. Now all of a sudden, they can’t execute him. The Romans have to do it. So then they’re working within the political system to execute. I don’t know how many lies they actually told they were trying to fabricate a find a blasphemous thing, but the fact that Jesus claimed to be God is blasphemous. If he’s not, if he’s not really God.

Chris
No, no, what I’m referring to is the fact that, like, Jesus’s trial was hogwash, right? It was illegal. What they did, everything they did was illegal. They knew it. They were breaking the law. So what I’m saying is when, when when a Pharisee like Nicodemus comes forward and you know, and says, hey, I’ve been taught this whole my whole life and let me, let me learn. Yeah. But, you know, there’s got to be a reason why Jesus looks at their hearts in so many times when it talks about the Pharisees, uh, thinking terrible things. And Jesus calls them, you know, you know, whitewashed tombs and and you’re hypocrites. You’re hypocrites, and you’re dead inside. I see, I don’t think that that was innocence of just being taught something. I think that he was referring to those who actually had, uh, wicked hearts, who actually had bad intentions or got caught up, you know, inevitably by having power and title and, and, uh, and abused that. So I think that there’s both so there’s a part of me, there’s a part of me that completely has, uh, compassion on the Pharisees. But then there’s a part of me that. Understands that there are there were Pharisees who abused their power and all of that, but they caused irreparable damage in the lives of people, thousands of people, just because they abuse their position.

Jeff
So in this passage, yes, I think their response was perfectly legit. Yes, in their belief system.

Chris
And I agree with that.

Jeff
Yeah. In their in their belief system, their response that a man would claim to be God, uh, that makes him a blasphemer, unless he really is God. Yeah. But they had no framework to even believe that God would become a man. And so that was dumbfounding. That’s why Jesus had to come back and go. Listen, it’s both my teachings, right? Even even when he was 12 years old, he’s in the sitting on the steps of the temple and they’re like, they were amazed at the depth of his teaching. Maybe many of these same teachers. Yeah, right. It wasn’t like he was an unknown person to them. They were blown away by his teaching at 12 years old. And so you can imagine the depth of his teaching by the time he’s 30 something here.

Chris
Yeah. Well, they say no man spoke like him, right? And they were amazed because every time they tried to trap him. See, there’s another thing. They tried to trap him. Right. So so it’s like, you know, the who, you know, all these kind of things. But when they try to trap him, they were. It says that they would walk away amazed because no man spoke like this. No man had so much wisdom. Yeah. And, uh, and I just love that part. So.

Jeff
So, you know, the DEA, if the, if you’re a known drug dealer, one of the things we’re going to try to do is get you to sell us drugs on camera. That’s entrapment. Right? Right. So if they believed he was committing heresy, they just needed to get him to do it out in front of everybody so they could accuse him. So.

Chris
So you’re saying that’s reasonable?

Jeff
Yeah. I’m not saying it’s unreasonable. I think it’s within their system of they had to work within the legal system of the Romans, which means it couldn’t just be the members of the Sanhedrin condemning him. They needed witnesses. And so they were I think they were constantly trying to do that. I don’t think it was necessarily entirely all evil. I do think there were bad people. Caiaphas wasn’t a good guy. Uh, Ananias wasn’t a good guy. You had several of these priests that weren’t good guys. They were politicians that were running around dressed up like Pharisees and priests. That’s a whole other issue, but a Nicodemus kind of guy. Or later on, as Paul preaches around, um, uh, and Peter preaching around the Bible says that there were many Pharisees who came to faith in Christ, you know, after the resurrection. So I think that for many of them, they were sincerely seeking God in their belief system, but they were so committed to their belief system they couldn’t find Jesus. They couldn’t see Jesus for who he was. And then you find many of them come to faith in Jesus in the book of acts after the resurrection, they go, oh, now I get it. Not only did he feed people with sack lunches and walk on water and heal people and raise people from the dead, he rose from the dead and the the curtain in the temple tore from the top to the bottom and separated, you know, and opened up the the Holy of Holies. You know, for humanity, I think, I think that there were the sincere ones looking for him, and the others were purely political. I think it was it was a dual thing, sure. But in this context, it wasn’t unreasonable that they were right, that they were were calling him that.

Jeff
So then Jesus says, listen, listen to my teachings. And that’s what I say to my friends, um, especially people from other faiths. Uh, we mentioned yesterday some of our our Muslim friends. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read the Quran in exchange for you read the New Testament, you read the Gospels, I’ll read the Quran, we’ll come back, we’ll meet, we’ll have conversation. I’ll ask you questions, you ask me questions. And many, many times, because I just believe if you can spend a little bit of time with Jesus and hear what he has to say, you’re going to fall in love with him. Yeah. You go and you see his miracles and you realize he can do what I can’t do and what we can’t do. And that he had power over the over the physical world around us. Those two things Jesus said were evidence enough beyond the fact that John and Moses and others also testified about him.

Chris
Well, our good friend, uh, Abdu Murray. Yeah, yeah, he’s, uh, he’s a guy who worked with Ravi Zacharias for a long time and his organization and still does. Right. For the organization.

Jeff
No, no, he runs his own organization now.

Chris
Oh. Does he. Yeah. Okay. But but anyway, uh, his story was, uh, he was a muslim who was trying to disprove Jesus’s claims. That’s correct. So. And the reason why he actually came to know Jesus as his Savior was, after all of the evidence. And he the further he dug, the more he realized, oh, wait a minute, this is true, right? And then he becomes an apologetic, uh, you know, expert, pretty much, uh, for Jesus’s claims. Yeah.

Jeff
So here’s I think the lesson today, one of the big lessons today for people. If you have a friend who’s a lost friend, maybe you work with a Hindu, or a muslim, or an atheist or an agnostic. Your goal is not to convert them to become a Christian, right? Your goal should be to get them to Jesus and let Jesus do the changing and the converting, right? I think sometimes what we do is we try to position our worldview and our belief system against their worldview and their belief system, and that that’s very difficult because they’re so deeply rooted in their system. Yeah.

Chris
And then and just like you said before, have compassion and understanding. Yeah. Right. So if you grew up in the Middle East, in the middle of, you know, Iraq. Yeah, you would, uh, naturally be taught that your whole life. And so just understand that, of course, that’s what they’ve been taught.

Jeff
I’ve told so many people, and I genuinely mean this. I’ve told so many people who are have a have a skewed view of Christianity because of Christians. Sure. Right. Or because of churches or because of religious rituals, um, that they can’t see Jesus because all they see is the rituals or the cathedrals or the Christians. And so I’ll say all the time, listen, I’m not trying to convert you to my brand of Christianity. I want you to meet Jesus. And if you meet Jesus, he’ll change your life. And so what we have to do is get them to Jesus, not to our church necessarily, not to our religion, not to our belief system. We got to get them to Jesus and let Jesus do the changing. And that’s why you have a guy like Nicodemus. His life did change because he came to Jesus, right? As opposed to these guys. Their life didn’t change because they dug in double down on their religious system. Right? There’s two different, two different battles. I think we fight the wrong battle a lot of times as Christians.

Chris
That’s great. Yeah, well, that’s a good place to end and we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.