Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Hey welcome to The Bible Guys! Right before, right before we started we were looking at the segment and then Jeff made a comment and then I was laughing during the roll-in but was I right you were right of course of course you’re right.

Jeff:
Okay, well, our listeners are going to find out what that’s about in just a moment.

Chris:
Yeah, well, because Desiree has chosen the segment for today known as Mailbags. Mailbags. And so Mailbags is today is sent in from Joe M and Joe M said, by the way, very fun question. Yes, this is a great one. If you had to work at an amusement park or a famous landmark for the rest of your life, which place would you choose?

Jeff:
Oh, that’s a good question. And then during the roll in, you said to me, I said, I know yours is going to be Disney. And I said, yes, for real.

Chris:
And they started laughing. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why.

Jeff:
Because it’s the most magical place.

Chris:
Well, there’s no doubt in my mind that that is correct. However, here’s what I do also know.

Jeff:
Because I have a good friend… Because you can walk around and sing and dance and nobody’s going to think anything about it.

Chris:
Right, right. Look at me! Musical No, if I have because I have good friends living in Orlando I knew people who worked at Disney and actually what I have found out is that working at Disney is actually extremely hard So it’s not it’s not rainbows and sunshine to work at Disney. It’s actually pretty brutal and Um, and, uh, at least from the three people that I knew that worked there, they, they said that they’re like, yeah, I mean, like they don’t treat you, uh, poorly. They treat you fairly, but it is brutal, right? You work extremely hard. Um, and so I don’t, I don’t think that working at Disney would be easy. I also don’t agree with a ton of what Disney does politically, right? And I’m hoping that, you know, some people are going to be fired. And some people have been fired, by the way.

Jeff:
Yeah. Reorganize it a little bit. And reorganize it.

Chris:
Because, yeah, because Disney once, what Disney once was is not what Disney is now. And we’re hoping it’ll do the pendulum swing back. Right. So those things exist. However, with that being said, My daughter lives in Florida and she has no plans on leaving. My other daughter says that she would love to eventually, if she could, move down to Florida with her husband because he’s a rocket engineer and wants to work at NASA and these kinds of things. So why would I not want to work at a place where my entire family can go for free? Right? So because we all love Disney anyway, it’s all about the grandkids. So if I could wave a magic wand and it would have to be the fairy… Your whole family can go to Heritage Church for free. Well, you know, we’re talking about not just any magic wand, Jeff, but the fairy godmother’s magic wand.

Jeff:
It has to be a music park, amusement park, or a famous landmark. Yeah, you’re right.

Chris:
Yeah. So, so I would just say, I would just say, um, it would be for the, for the grandkids. That’s it.

Jeff:
That’s my answer. For the future grandkids. Yep. That’s right. Wow. Okay. Well, that’s it. So you, you don’t want to do it because it’s magical. You want to do it because it’s a hard place to work for your grandchildren.

Chris:
No, I’m saying in spite of the fact that it’s hard, I would still choose it, A, because it is magical.

Jeff:
It is magical. B, because of the grandkids. Okay. Well, I trust you. You know, I’ve only been to Disney twice in my whole life.

Chris:
You’ve now told me everything that I need to know about you. Yeah.

Jeff:
I don’t know if you knew it, but it’s all fake there. Did you know that?

Chris:
It’s real. It’s real. The magic is real.

Jeff:
So, so believe it or not, here’s my answer. I’ve been thinking the whole time you’ve been talking. So I barely paid attention. Um, thanks. My, I would say my favorite place. So landmark, I’m guessing like famous landmark would be like, uh, that was Hagar.

Chris:
Sorry.

Jeff:
Yeah. So amusement parks would be like Disney or Cedar point or something. A landmark would be like a national treasure kind of places. Uh, okay. Then I would say some national parks would national park count as a landmark.

Chris:
It depends on if it’s a, yeah, I think it would.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Then I would say, uh, no, no, no, no. Grand Tetons would be my favorite place on the planet. Huh? Jenny Lake. I love Jenny Lake in the grand Tetons. So that’s what I would do.

Chris:
I was thinking of the Washington Monument, that’s what I was trying to say.

Jeff:
Washington Monument? Yeah, that’s a landmark. Lincoln, yeah? Great. Okay, so that’s it for me.

Chris:
By the way, let me just, let me squeeze in here a 30-second story.

Jeff:
Uh, I was, I would expect nothing less.

Chris:
Okay. I’m, I’m at Disney and I’m standing in front of the castle. We just happened to be walking by on the way to the ride. And they had one of those little plays, you know, those impromptu plays where Mickey comes running out of the castle and things. And, uh, they were doing frozen in the middle of this like medley or whatever. All of a sudden it’s Elsa and Anna and, uh, Elsa is up there and, uh, and, and they had apparently jackhammered, uh, the cement below and somehow installed maybe even overnight, some sort of a machine. So then, so then she, when she says, let it go, she, she releases snow. And apparently there’s, there’s a built in like a snow machine. No, it’s not a snow machine because the snow came from her hand, but it’s like a wind, a gust of wind.

Jeff:
Like a big fan.

Chris:
Yeah. And so she, so her cue, yes, is to, is to let the snow go directly over what is built into the cement now and it shoots up. And so when she lets the snow go, it leaves her hand and goes at a 45 degree angle upward. Then she runs over to the other side and lets snow go and it goes upward the other way, right? Right. And then there’s, uh, then she runs over to this other thing and then this fog comes out of the ground. So they had built this for this, this Elsa segment. And as I was sitting there with my daughter, Tori, I actually, uh, looked and as I was watching this, I cried.

Jeff:
I believe you.

Chris:
I was legitimately like a tear came down my eye. I can, I can envision it clearly. But do you know why?

Jeff:
Because it was beautiful and magical. And your little girl was witnessing it. It was a dream come true for you.

Chris:
My little girl was in her 20s. Well, still. But that’s not why I cried. I cried because I thought to myself, this is actually in a lot of ways what I do for a living. Like I, uh, I’m an arts creator, right. Who, who create art for the purpose of capturing people’s attention. Uh, now in this, in this case, they just did it because of wonder and magic and all that stuff. Right. Money, right. Money, money. Let’s be honest. Okay. Wonder magic for the purpose of money.

Jeff:
Yeah. And then it’s not about wonder and magic. It’s about the $315 ticket. But for me,

Chris:
I, you know, we do it. Uh, we create services on Sunday mornings and, and, and other things. In fact, tomorrow I’m leaving.

Jeff:
And you can look at our budget. We can prove it’s not for money at heritage.

Chris:
That’s correct. But tomorrow I’m leaving to fly the Dominican Republic. And eventually I’ll get to the place where I’m going to film something. And we’re going to try to create a piece of art through B roll and, and all these different kinds of things. And we’re going to create this thing and make no mistake of it. It is art, right? for the purpose of telling a compelling story, and then we’re going to present this global ministry to Heritage in July. And so I’m sitting here thinking all of this as I’m watching Elsa and Anna, but Elsa is basically throwing snow into the air and all the kids around me are going, And I’m going like, this is so unbelievable that they’re going out of their way to do so much work just for the benefit of this. And I thought to myself, this is what we are called to do in churches, to capture people’s attention, to do that much work, to make sure that they, why? For one reason, so that the gospel is clearly seen. It’s clearly heard.

Jeff:
So what Disney does requires all of us. So I did a message one time about this, the difference between drama and movies and what we do. We’re both telling a story, but a movie requires mutually agreed upon suspended disbelief, right? So that whole thing, that’s not real snow. She didn’t make that snow just suddenly appear in her hand and fly out, right? The whole thing was manufactured. You don’t know, Jeff. It was all manufactured. You don’t know. And it was manufactured for two reasons, to give people warm fuzzies, right? To make dads tear up so that they’ll spend $300 on a ticket and buy $9 Cokes and spend $400 on souvenirs, right? That’s why they do it. They do it for warm fuzzies so that you’ll spend a bunch of money. as opposed to what you’re doing, going to make this documentary kind of thing in Dominican Republic, is to help change lives. There’s a huge difference between those two things. Making you smile in your life is nice, and I think that’s important.

Chris:
Yeah, the end goal is radically different.

Jeff:
But the end goal is radically different. There’s so much more depth to the work that you’re supposed to be doing. Oh, yeah.

Chris:
It’s the difference between wasting your life, honestly. Yeah. And I mean, I would be. By the way, I don’t think anybody who works for Disney is wasting their lives. I’m not saying that. I’m saying based on the call that God has placed on my life, if I decided to just chuck it all and go create snow, I would be wasting my life, I think.

Jeff:
That’s a picture of Grant T. Dunn’s.

Chris:
Oh wow. Holy Christmas.

Jeff:
That’s awesome. I love it.

Chris:
All right, well let’s jump into Genesis chapter 18 verses number 1 through 15. Yeah.

Jeff:
So it says, the Lord appeared again to Abraham near the oak grove belonging to Mamre. One day Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent during the hottest part of the day. He looked up and noticed three men standing nearby. And when he saw them, he ran to meet them and welcome them, bowing low to the ground. My Lord, he said, if it pleases you, stop here for a while, rest in the shade of this tree while water is brought to wash your feet. And since you’ve honored your servant with this visit, let me prepare some food to refresh you before you continue on your journey. All right, they said, do as you’ve said. So Abraham ran back to the tent and said to Sarah, hurry up, get three large measures of your best flour and knead it into dough and make some bread. And then Abraham ran out to the herd and chose a tender calf and gave it to his servant who quickly prepared it. And when the Lord, when the food was ready, Abraham took some yogurt and milk and the roasted meat and he served it to the men. As they ate, Abraham waited on them in the shade of the trees. Where is Sarah, your wife? The visitors asked. She’s inside the tent, Abraham replied. Then one of them said, I will return to you about this time next year, and your wife Sarah will have a son. Sarah was listening to this conversation from the tent, and Abraham and Sarah were both very old by this time. Sarah was long past the age of having children, so she laughed silently to herself and said, How could a worn-out woman like me enjoy such pleasure, especially when my master, my husband, is also so old? Then the Lord said to Abraham, why did Sarah laugh? Why did she say, can an old woman like me have a baby? Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return about this time next year and Sarah will have a son. Sarah was afraid, so she denied it saying, I didn’t laugh. But the Lord said, no, you did laugh.

Chris:
That’s it.

Jeff:
Is that it? Is that where we end?

Chris:
That’s it. Yeah. We’re supposed to read one through 15.

Jeff:
One through 15.

Chris:
Um, so, uh, geez, we, I guess we got to summarize the rest of the story. Right. So she basically, uh, was pregnant and then had a son named Isaac. Right. So, uh, so yeah. Where’s the actual rest of the birth of Isaac is tomorrow.

Jeff:
It’s tomorrow. Okay. So you just ruined it. I think they were waiting. Our listeners were waiting with a baited breath to find out what happens next.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, you know, uh, number one, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting how these three men, um, you know, are, are these, are these three angels, by the way?

Jeff:
Yes.

Chris:
Yeah. So it doesn’t say that does it?

Jeff:
Yes.

Chris:
Does it say they’re angels in disguise?

Jeff:
Yeah. Then the men got up from their meal and looked out towards Sodom and two of them are the angels that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

Chris:
Oh, you’re talking about later on.

Jeff:
It’s the same story.

Chris:
We already read that.

Jeff:
No, that’s literally the next verse.

Chris:
Oh, right. All I’m saying is it doesn’t say it so far. We didn’t read that today.

Jeff:
Oh, yeah. We didn’t read it today. It’s the next verse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so these are angels. Right. And so, and as a matter of fact, this is considered one of the Christophanies, one of the appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament. Some people believe that this moment was a Jesus moment.

Chris:
Yes. And so the point I was trying to make is that, uh, that at this point they don’t know that they’re angels.

Jeff:
That’s correct. That’s correct.

Chris:
And so, uh, and, and by the way, we’re not even told as readers that they’re the angels at this point. That’s correct. So, so, um, you know, it is one thing to doubt, uh, God’s word, but then it’s another thing to, uh, have somebody say, Hey, uh, at this time, here’s what I think is going to happen. And you’re thinking to yourself, well, you’re crazy. You’re just a traveler. right? You’re just the man, right? You’re just some guy. Like, how do you even know us? And why would you ever say that? But yet at the same time, there’s a really good point in here because she was not just doubting what the crazy guy said, right? She was actually reasoning how it’s impossible. Right? And so it’s, it’s interesting how, uh, the angel says, why would she laugh? Because is anything too hard for the Lord? And sometimes we need to check ourselves because I believe that sometimes we think that way and we think, well, there’s no way that’s going to happen. And then we just realize, you know, is that too hard for the Lord? Didn’t we just have this happen where one of our staff members told us a story and he says, you know, he had this unbelievable story about a house being sold, you know, everything. And then as he’s telling the story, he makes this comment and says, it was such a God thing. He goes, I don’t know why it should surprise me, but sometimes it still does.

Jeff:
It does.

Chris:
Right. Right. So when God shows up and he does something that’s beyond coincidence and defies odds, we think to ourselves, man, I’m so surprised. And yet, you know, we, we, we should not be surprised. And so anyway, I think there’s a little bit of credit we need to give to Sarah, a little bit of grace, because she was really doubting the word of some three crazy travelers, perhaps.

Jeff:
Well, they’re 25 years since the promise began, the first promise. Right. Yeah, I’ve heard this before. Right. Right. It just seems silly. So you get that. Now, I do think it’s interesting, if we move back just a little bit, here’s Abraham and Lot in there. Abraham, I mean, and he’s enthusiastically serving these three travelers. And that was, and still is, a major measurement of a person’s character and kindness of the goodness of who they are, the quality of the man in the Middle East is often measured by their hospitality and generosity. And so here’s a traveler, life was very difficult and still is very difficult, often in many of the places in the Middle East, and travel can be very difficult. And so these strangers, they’re strangers to Abraham, he doesn’t recognize them. And he chooses not only to help him out. Hey, here’s a tuna sandwich. He’s like, Hey, Sarah, make some bread. Hey, servant, go and butcher that, that animal. And Hey, here’s some of my best yogurt and some of my best. Right. And he brings out this great meal, roasted meat and milk. And I mean, he spared no expense for these guys. He didn’t know.

Chris:
Yeah. Isn’t it always, isn’t it interesting as well, that when you go to Israel today, chances are you’re going to get lamb with yogurt.

Jeff:
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris:
Yeah. Like in tzatziki sauce on a gyro. Yeah.

Jeff:
That’s yogurt. Yeah. Yeah. With spices. That’s right.

Chris:
So it is, it is pretty interesting how it’s like, wow, check it out. Food is not a change.

Jeff:
Now you’re not a Middle Eastern food guy, like a Mediterranean food guy. Except for gyros.

Chris:
Gyros are the only thing that I like. Yeah.

Jeff:
I love it. So I love, I do a lot of work in Middle East anyways, right? So I always look forward to the good meals.

Chris:
I am among the minority for sure.

Jeff:
The last time I was in Iraq, last year, we went to meet with a Sheikh and we sat down in his home. And a Sheikh is? He’s a leader of a tribe. So this Sheikh was a family leader of 10,000 people from near Mosul. And so we go to his home and sit on the floor with his son. So his oldest son and his next oldest son. So I think he had, I forgot what they told us, like 10 children. But his oldest son sat with us for the meal. His next oldest son served the meal. And they brought out, so there was me and Chad and the friend that we were traveling with and our guide this leader, this Sheikh and his two sons. So there were what, seven, six of us. And they brought out enough food for 15 people, 20 people. I’m not joking. It was unbelievable how much food, but what was amazing was that Sheikh had had to lead his people, all 10,000 of his people to run away from ISIS. They actually stood and fought ISIS and won as ISIS was coming into Mosul. and they had to flee. He was offered a peace deal with ISIS and he said, no, right? You guys are monsters and you don’t represent my religion and fought them and then wound up, they were living in a refugee camp. So here’s the shake, he’s literally wearing a Rolex watch and he’s living in a refugee camp in a little tiny hut. And he has nothing except that watch. They have nothing. They lost everything when they moved. But he put out enough food for 10 of us, 15 of us, and was extraordinarily generous. And I’ve had that happen over and over and over again, not always with shakes, but with people who don’t really have much. But when a traveler comes that they’ve never met, just turn themselves inside out to provide for. And that’s a big part of that culture. It really shows the measure of a man. How hospitable are you? How generous and kind are you to people you don’t know?

Chris:
Well, I mean, we visited a village in Kenya and they had never even seen a white man before, according to my friend. And they had like two chickens and they insisted that we take one of their chickens. Yeah. And, and we were like, well, we don’t want it because in, in, in the leader of, you know, the ring leader that I was traveling with said, we have much, you have little, we would not dare take your chicken. And then the translator said, if you don’t take their chicken, It’s offensive. It’s offensive because you offend them. So you have to take the chicken. And we were like, Oh my goodness. So we had an 11 hour drive home. So guess who held the chicken for 11 hours?

Jeff:
You actually took the chicken? We had to. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So I had at one time, again, with the Pocats, same people you’re talking about.

Chris:
Did you miss the fact that I held the chicken as it is like flapping its wings, like every five seconds trying to get away and holding the chicken for 11 hours? Oh my goodness. And then that evening we ate them.

Jeff:
I was going to say, there’s a way to not have to have to hold a flopping chicken. I know.

Chris:
Yeah. That’s what I said. I said, just duct tape the thing’s head or something.

Jeff:
So, well, 10 seconds. Anyways, I had them, they gave me a goat. So we were at this place, and were you with me? I was not with you when anybody gave you a goat.

Chris:
Okay.

Jeff:
Um, anyways, they give me a goat and I was same thing. I was going to try to decline it in this village. And the translator said, Oh, you can’t decline the goat. And so I brought the, the, the chief and I said, thank you so much. You’ve honored me beyond comprehension. I’ve never had anybody give me a goat before. Thank you so much for your generosity. Here’s what I would like to do. Um, I have to fly on a plane home and they won’t let me bring, bring the goat. So could I, hire somebody to butcher the goat and we’ll have a party right now.” And he went, That’s a great idea. Everybody cheers. They go, they butcher the goat. They have a great big party, celebrate all that kind of stuff. So I gave the goat back to the village, you know, is what I did. And they loved it. Cause I can’t fit a goat in my suitcase. My wife would be a little mad.

Chris:
Right, right. We’re leaving all your clothes.

Jeff:
There’s something to be said about the level and the quality of a husband and wife who say, Hey, these strangers show up. and we’re going to give the best of what we have to them. And then, you know, they go on and they later find out, oh, hey, these are messengers from God, because this is where the story of Sodom and Gomorrah come from. And Abraham advocates for Sodom because Lot is living in Sodom and his family. He advocates and asks God to hold off destroying the city if he can just find 10 righteous people. And then those angels or two of those angels go down. And that’s that’s who goes and rescues Abraham or Lot and his family. You gave it away. Well, we’re not reading that part of the story. Believe it or not, I know it’s not in there. We jump all the way to Isaac’s birth tomorrow. So we’re not even telling Sodom and Gomorrah.

Chris:
Unless we call an audible.

Jeff:
You want to call an audible right now? I kind of do. Tune in tomorrow and find out. Are we going to tell Isaac the birth of Isaac or Sodom and Gomorrah?

Chris:
Yeah. What is it going to be? Yeah. Well, hey, that looks like our time. And so it looks like we have a decision to make and you’ll find out tomorrow what the decision is on the Bible guys.