Transcription

Chris
So, Jeff, what movie line is this? With my last breath, I stab at thee. I don’t know, it’s it’s it’s the wrath of Khan. It’s the wrath of Khan. It’s all about revenge, dude. Jeff
That’s a good movie.

Chris
Yeah, revenge. That’s. That’s the most famous Star Trek of all times. Okay. Do you remember when Kirk said, come on?

Jeff
Yep. That was. And that thing crawling anyways. Okay, so he’s Chris and I’m Jason. We’re we’re the Bible guys. That caught me off guard. I started laughing.

Chris
Okay. That’s funny. Okay, so guess what? We have the segments that you always say that people like.

Jeff
This is the pinnacle of everybody’s week. I mean, they just they can’t wait till Friday.

Chris
No, that is so not true.

Jeff
It’s true. None of that is true. It is true. It is.

Chris
True. Yeah. So it’s what makes.

Jeff
So many what makes card and letter and email saying that they love this segment.

Chris
What made Chris mad this week? Well, it only took me a second to realize that something happened this week. Uh, and, and.

Jeff
I love the fact that only took you a second. Yeah.

Chris
And, well, I realized immediately because, uh. And again, remember, I don’t just get mad for me.

Jeff
No, you do it on behalf of all the people.

Chris
All the little.

Jeff
People, all the little.

Chris
People out there, all the voices of the world.

Jeff
You’re so good to us, Chris.

Chris
Yes, I just I and by the way, that actually is true. Oh, I’m.

Jeff
Sure it is.

Chris
I joke, but it actually is true. Like like if I have a bad waiter, for instance, or server. I’m not just mad at my experience, I’m mad that that person exists for everybody, for everybody.

Jeff
That everybody’s going to have that bad.

Chris
Yes, yes, I’m mad for the company. Wow, I really do. I have like this.

Jeff
Your heart is pure as the driven snow. Uh.

Chris
It’s driven snow.

Jeff
It’s just. So, Chris, I think we should all aspire to be.

Chris
Here’s what happened this week. That made me mad. Okay, um, I was actually driving, uh, on the road, and I went to Ohio to go to the, uh, Hall of Fame game. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And on the way back, my son had to drive a different car. So I was by myself, and I. And I found myself driving, and I get off the turnpike, and I had to use the restroom, and it was one of those, like, right now kind of things. And so I was like, oh, I need I need to pull off. Now normally I go to McDonald’s. Oh, I that’s my preference because for about ten years I always used gas stations for restrooms. Don’t do that. And then and then I stopped and I said no, no, no McDonald’s is better. And it was life changing, by the way. Yeah. If anybody if anyone ever listeners still pulls off and uses gas stations, I’m telling you, it’ll change your life. Use McDonald’s to use McDonald’s.

Jeff
Yeah, that was one of the goals. We used to be trained down that that that was one of our goals was to develop a reputation. We had the cleanest restrooms.

Chris
Who’s we?

Jeff
When I worked at McDonald’s. Well, you.

Chris
Didn’t say that.

Jeff
Well.

Chris
Okay.

Jeff
I just thought, take a look at me. Anybody who’s watching online, they know I have a lifetime of experience in McDonald’s.

Chris
So the point is, I pull off at this gas station. Hey, do you have a restroom? Yes, I do, and I walked in, and I’m telling you, I had to use the restroom badly, and I had to use what they had there. And I’m telling you, I was so upset because here’s here’s the challenge. If you own a business, just clean the restroom. Yeah. Just clean it. Yeah. Right. I mean, by the way, even even this podcast studio, it’s like you’re walking down and you’re using the restroom. I’m thankful that it’s clean, right? Because it’s like every business that, you know, provides a restroom for the public. You just have to have it clean. Right. And this situation was really bad.

Jeff
Yeah. If you’re allowing if you’re a business owner and you’re allowing your restrooms to be dirty, it’s because you’re not thinking about your customers.

Chris
Well, think about this. A restroom already is a place that nobody wants to be, right? A public restroom, right? Right, right. And so it’s like already, even if it’s clean, even even if McDonald’s restrooms, which are generally very clean usually.

Jeff
Yeah.

Chris
Uh, I do not want to be there. Yeah. Right. And when I have to use it extensively, I don’t want to use it extensively. Yeah, right. But I’m telling you, this situation was so bad. I don’t want to get into detail, but I was so angry. I was so angry. I’m thinking to myself, there’s only one toilet, right? I don’t have another choice. Right? Right. Uh, you know, sometimes if you go even in, like, uh, the rest stops, which are better on the, on the turnpike, sometimes there’s like eight stalls. You have to you have to, like, choose the fourth stall. Yeah. You’re like, not this one, not this one, not this one. Right. This one. Right.

Jeff
So not to be overly gross, but what kind of human destroys bathroom stalls? Yes. And doesn’t clean up after themselves.

Chris
I’m angry for the world.

Jeff
Me too. I’m going to join you on that one. What made Chris and Jeff mad this week? Oh, I that’s a first. I am with you on this one, Chris. Wow. Makes me mad. What kind of human does that? Yeah.

Chris
So so but but more importantly, uh, so yes. Don’t be a person that destroys stalls. But also, if you’re a person who owns a business, please just keep them clean. That’s right. That’d be.

Jeff
Great. So there’s a legend. I don’t know if it’s true, but I’ve read The legend of Jack Welch. He used to be the CEO of, uh, um, GE, back when GE used to own, like, 50 different companies. Yeah. And he walked in to one of the, uh, one of the company headquarters, and he used the restroom in the lobby, and it was pretty messy. There was paper on the floor and all that stuff was pretty messy. And the lobby. And then he got in the elevator, went up to the executive suite up at the top. The C suite went in and asked the the administrative assistant, hey, where’s the restroom? She sent him the restroom. He’s spotless clean. So then he walked into the boardroom and he said, uh, it waited till everybody got in there. And he said, uh, who who’s responsible for the restroom in the lobby? And somebody said, somebody speaks up and goes, oh, uh, was there a problem in the restroom? He said, it was trashed. And the president of that division says, oh, and he names the person that was in charge of the restrooms. And Jack said, no, you’re the president. You’re responsible and fired that guy. Wow. Fired a president of a corporation because the restrooms. Because he said it was somebody else’s responsibility to make sure that restroom is clean. Wow. Is that cool? I hope that legend is true.

Chris
No doubt.

Jeff
Is that so cool? Right. Because what he’s saying is you don’t let little people, the little people take care of these things. The most important thing is that every guest who walks in this property realizes that we prepared for them.

Chris
I went from being mad this week to having a very strong sense of happiness and pride that I hope that is true. I have hope, I have hope for the world. Yeah.

Jeff
There needs to be more of that where the executives take responsibility for the care of their guests. Yes, their.

Chris
Customers hope for the world.

Jeff
All right. Man, well, hey, so we’re in this one together. We’re going to just share it. We’re going to walk around and be outraged on behalf of all the other people. Yes, yes. So there’s thousands of you today, and we just want you to know we have your back, and we are outraged that you are forced to use less than stellar facilities. Okay. Was that enough, do you feel?

Chris
I think so, we covered that one. It’s time to move on.

Jeff
Okay, so now Jesus is continuing this idea. Remember, he keeps saying, you’ve heard that it says in Scripture that the law says, right. So he’s continuing this idea in Matthew chapter five verse 38. And we’re going to read through, I forgot where we’re reading through.

Chris
But he says through verse.

Jeff
48, yeah. He says, you have heard that the law says the punishment must match the injury. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say, do not resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek. Also, if you’re sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat too. If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. Give to those who ask and do not turn away from those who want to borrow. You’ve heard that the law says, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. In that way, you’ll be acting as true children of your father in heaven, for he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you only love those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you’re kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect. And then do we read the Luke chapter 612? Yeah, Luke.

Chris
627 through 36, which.

Jeff
Says, but to you who are willing to listen, I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse you for pray for those who hurt you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek. Also, if someone demands your coat, offer your shirt. Also give to anyone who asks and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get back. Get them back. Do to others as you would like them do to you. If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do only good to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much. And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return. Love your enemies, do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High. For he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. You must be compassionate, just as your father is compassionate.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Maybe some of my least favorite teachings Jesus has. Yeah. That’s funny. If I if I could just get an eraser and erase this, these passages right here probably might be my least favorite.

Chris
Um, two summers ago, we did a series. Uh, do you remember this called where have I heard that before?

Jeff
I wasn’t listening.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, you taught them. I remember you preached them. Yeah, I remember, uh, yeah. So where have I heard that before? And it was a brilliant suggestion, uh, by one of our former youth pastors. And he actually, uh, came up with this idea. And the idea is, is that we hear famous lines in culture all the time. But oftentimes many people don’t know that they come from the Bible. Yep. So when somebody says, uh, hey, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, that’s known as the Golden rule, right? Yeah. That comes from the Bible.

Jeff
Yeah, that’s Jesus right here. Luke. Luke chapter.

Chris

31. And then when somebody says go the extra mile.

Jeff
That’s right.

Chris
Here we just read it. Yep. Right. And then there’s a third one. Yeah. Turn the turn the other cheek. Yep. And it comes from right here. Yep. And so and by the way uh, our series was multiple weeks. And so, uh, like the truth shall set you free. Uh, that was, that was another, uh, one in the Bible elsewhere. Um, uh, money is the root of all evil, right? That’s what people say, right? But it was actually the love of money, right. And so we basically took all these sayings that people are familiar with and we sort of said, hey, whether you know it or not, that comes from the Bible, right? What struck me about this passage is that three of them, three of them are used in our culture today all the time. Turn the other cheek, go the extra mile. And the golden rule. Do to others what you’d have them do to you. Right. And they’re all right here. Yeah. It’s amazing.

Jeff
It’s so he’s continuing this idea of, well, you know, the law. The rule is, you know, what was the first one, uh, love your enemy or. Love your neighbor. Hate your enemy? Yeah. Um, uh, what was the other one? A tooth for a tooth. An eye for eye for an eye.

Chris
A tooth for revenge.

Jeff
Yeah. So we’ve heard that phrase, too, and I. Yeah.

Chris
That’s right. Eye for an eye.

Jeff
Tooth for a tooth. Yeah. So that that’s a Bible phrase.

Chris
People say an eye for an eye. Yeah. Usually.

Jeff
Um, yeah. Tooth for a tooth. You get popped in the mouth, you take their tooth out. Right, right. That’s what that is. So, um, and the idea in the law was that the punishment should match the crime. So that was a civil law. Remember when we talked the other day about there was the ceremonial laws, the civil laws and the moral laws, so that I that idea of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, um, was a civil law thing that the judges, those people who were set up to enforce the law, should always make sure that the punishment for a crime should match the crime itself.

Chris
Exodus 21. Leviticus 24. Deuteronomy 19. Yeah, that’s where that comes from. Yep.

Jeff
And so it’s a civil law thing. But what people were doing is they were taking the civil law principle and applying it to their everyday life with with the people in the neighborhood. Right, right. And so Jesus is not forbidding the government from executing civil law in a way that matches the punishment. What he’s saying is you and your life, you’re not the judge. So then instead of trying to get revenge, turn the other cheek. Um, he’s not saying you shouldn’t protect yourself. He’s not saying those things. Um, uh, and I do believe that he’s talking here mostly about moral issues and and faith things because he’s already talked about being persecuted. Right. So it’d be those kinds of things. But he’s not saying there’s many places in the Bible talks about self-defense. You’re allowed to defend yourself. But there are many things somebody you know. Uh, recently there’s been a lot of YouTube videos and TikTok videos of somebody says something, somebody says something back. It starts to escalate. Somebody throws a punch, the next guy throws a punch back. All of a sudden it’s a brawl, right? All these people fighting. Well, do you know how not to have a brawl start when somebody throws a punch, walk away. Right, right. That’s how. So do you have a right to defend yourself? Sure. If you have the ability to diffuse a situation by taking it and walking away, then you diffuse it and then you avoid a lot more bad. That’s going to happen because when you throw the second punch, it’s just going to get worse and worse and worse. That’s what happens, right? So Jesus is talking, you know, uh, turn the other cheek when when somebody expects something from you. Jeff
He talks about suing or, you know, being sued or being demanded to go and carry a load. Do do even more. Go over and above what somebody is demanding from you. And, uh, those things, I’m like, yeah, Jesus, I like those things. The one I don’t like is when he says. You’ve heard. It’s okay to love those who love you and hate those who hate you. And by the way, that’s in the Bible, the book of Psalms, Psalm 139. Yeah. Psalm 140. Both of those have passages where David, King David is like, I hate my enemies, and I’m so glad you do too. And so they’ve taken that, you know. Then they, the Pharisees, began to apply that and say, okay, we just love the ones who love us, but we hate the people who are different from us, who hate us. Right? And Jesus is saying no. And so when you combine Matthew and Luke, Jesus says, love your enemies. Yeah. And that’s a good Christian. I’m sure you and I both love all our enemies, don’t we? We just. We love all. Yes you do. Of course you do. You’re a good Christian. Yeah. We love all of our enemies.

Chris
I only say I love you because Christ commanded me to.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. So? So as good Christians, we. We can claim we love all of our enemies. Yeah. It’s just unprovable. Then he says, pray for your enemies. Right. So I can I can claim I’m praying for my enemies. You don’t know for sure if I’m praying, but I can claim that. But then he says, do good to your enemies. And uh oh yeah, that’s measurable, right? So I can claim I love them, but am I praying for them? Not just that God to bring judgment on them, but God would prosper them, benefit them, um, capture their attention and bring them to Jesus. Uh, am I doing good for them? Then he says, actually lend to them whether they can repay you or not. Uh, make sure that you are going above and beyond to demonstrate God’s love, because he says God lets his sun shine on everybody, the ones who love him and the ones who hate him. God lets it rain on everybody. The ones who love him, the ones who hate him. And you’re supposed to be like God. And I read that passage and I’m like, Jesus, there’s a lot of other things I’d rather have you talk about than loving my enemies.

Chris
Yeah. No doubt. And by the way, when the rubber meets the road and you attach the word enemy to a name, it changes everything. Yeah, sure. Because it goes from a concept to a personal situation. Sure. And when you say love. Lindsay. Oh, right. That. Lindsay, do you have a problem with Lindsay? I love Mrs. Marsh, my 10th grade teacher. Right. It’s like, uh. It’s like you really, truly put a name to it. It’s like, oh, not him, not her. Right. It’s so hard. That is really, really tough. Yeah. And yet, um, you know, Jesus talks about this. And by the way, that’s a brand new thought, right? It was Jesus.

Jeff
Nobody had contemplated.

Chris
Introducing a brand new thought. Yeah. You know, and then he says later on, this is how everybody will know you’re my disciples if you love one another. Right? And love, of course, is an action word. It’s not a it’s not just a feeling. It’s, it’s a, it’s actually a verb. Yeah. And so to love is just like you said, it’s measurable. It’s to do and uh, yeah, that’s that’s pretty crazy.

Jeff
And then by the way, remember this entire passage? Jesus. From the very beginning when he’s given the Beatitudes. Blessed are you. Right? What he’s saying is he’s telling his followers, this is how I expect my followers to live. He’s not just throwing out these grand concepts, and none of us can live up to this. He’s putting out there saying, this is how the people in my kingdom are going to live. If you’re really going to be my follower, you need to love your enemies more tomorrow than you did yesterday, right? You need to be growing in all of these these areas of your life. And I would say it’s one of my big challenges. And, you know, it doesn’t mean necessarily that you have gone out and chosen some enemies. I have I have some people in my life that I know that they are the most peaceful people and they don’t have. If you ask them, who are your enemies, they’d be like, I don’t think I have any enemies, right? So it’s possible for you to not choose enemies, but it’s possible for that same person to have somebody else think of them as an enemy, right? Right. So it doesn’t always mean that I’ve decided Chris Zorbaugh is my enemy. I might think, hey, you know what? I really don’t care what Chris Sarbaugh thinks. I’m just going to live my life. It’s fine. I don’t consider him an enemy. I just ignore him. But Chris is. Arbor could decide he’s my enemy, right? And even in that context, then, he’s not saying that I should just ignore Chris Arbor. I should love you. I should pray for you. I should do good to you. Right? And that’s so. Even if it’s somebody else’s decided they’re my enemy, right? Jeff
I should look out, be praying for them and doing good to them.

Chris
Which is even worse, right? It’s it’s worse.

Jeff
He’s just piling it on, man. Right. It’s it’s not worse. It’s harder.

Chris
Right? Right. Yeah. Well, that’s what I meant.

Jeff
But can you imagine if the world was this way, if if the world lived these three passages, just the Christians. If instead of throwing the second punch, we just walk away? Um. Now, if you have to throw the second punch to neutralize the threat, that’s a different thing. The Bible says you’re allowed to protect yourself, but if this is just going to be a slap fest. Right, right. Uh, just a couple sassy people. If if Christians would just walk away. How much better would that be if if a if a boss demands, hey, I need you to to work an extra hour and you go, no, I’m going to stay and finish the project, how much better would the world be if we just went further? How much better would the world be if instead of us choosing to maintain our our enemies kind of relationships instead, that we begin to work towards loving them and praying for them? It’s hard. A long terme, I’ve discovered. It’s my life long terme. When I start praying for somebody, it’s hard for me to continue hating them. Mm. It’s really hard. Um, and and that doesn’t mean that I have to always give access to the people who hurt me. Right. It’s fair to have boundaries, but, um. And I don’t have to let you keep coming to hurt me. But I could be praying for you. And I could be praying that God, you know, blesses you and that he captures your heart and your attention, that he blesses your family. I can do all those kinds of I’m not talking to you specifically. Now, you notice yesterday I was looking right at you this time. Now I’m looking over there just talking.

Chris
In general, I see.

Jeff
I see so that you need to read.

Chris
Body even though that we’re talking with.

Jeff
Each other. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Chris
Body language.

Jeff
So so ultimately it does come down to just what. And this is why verse 31 in Luke chapter six is so important. And we call it the Golden rule. Do you want the definition of how to how to manage all these other things? It’s really, really hard unless you just think of it, treat people the way you’d want to be treated. That’s it.

Chris
Yeah. And and by the way, uh, the idea of having revenge on somebody, you know, there’s another part of the scripture where, uh, it’s, uh. God says vengeance is mine. Says the Lord. Right? Yeah. So the idea that, like, uh, you need to pay somebody back, you know, it’s interesting because when we get angry at somebody, it creates a debt debtor relationship, which is why we have English language to substantiate that. We say, you owe me an apology, or you owe me an explanation, or you owe me something. Right. And so it’s and so it’s like there’s a debt. There’s a deficit. Right. And it needs to be paid. And if you don’t pay it, then I develop a lifestyle and habit of running around being angry at somebody because there’s still a deficit in my life. Yeah. And somebody has to pay it. Right. And so when we think of revenge, revenge is there’s a debt that needs to be paid. So this person needs to satisfy this whatever this offense by, by, you know, either suffering or paying. Right. And um, what’s interesting is that God is saying, let go of that, let go and let revenge. Let me take care of it. So instead of me acting upon that debt debtor relationship, that’s what forgiveness is. So forgiveness by according to Webster, even Webster says forgiveness is actually releasing of a debt. Yes, that’s what it says. And so it’s like so in other words, here’s here’s what that means. It means that I can sit all alone in a room and say, I have decided in my heart that that person does not owe me anything anymore. Right? Right. They don’t owe me anything anymore. And I’m and I’m okay with it because I’m just going to give it to God and all the anger and everything else and all that stuff that’s missing. Chris
Uh, they no longer have to satisfy that. I’m just going to let God heal it and take it from me. Yeah. And so when you forgive somebody, it’s really that’s that’s really the heart of revving up.

Jeff
Your right to to be the judge and the executioner. Yeah. You’re giving up your right saying, no, I’m not going to be the one that exacts revenge. I’ll let God manage it.

Chris
Yeah. No, I’m sure that there are special extenuating circumstances that involve certain things that, you know, would cause, you know, somebody to retaliate legally or, well, crimes.

Jeff
Crimes should be people should be held accountable for crimes biblically. Yeah. So these are personal things. These are neighbor things. Yeah. These are on the sidewalk things. These aren’t crimes. Right? Right. Because the Bible is really clear about crimes. And so he’s not saying turn the other cheek because when somebody commits a crime against you, he’s saying turn the other cheek. When somebody smacks you in a conversation or an argument. Right. That’s a different thing. Yeah, right.

Chris
So anyway, all that to say, you know, when it comes to revenge, the idea of saying, okay, God, this person doesn’t owe me anymore and I’m going to let you take the revenge because you say revenge is yours. Uh, that’s a big deal. Yeah.

Jeff
So and then to summarize the whole thing or to come to the end of it, um, Jesus says, uh, uh, for he, God is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked to him. And so he says, you must be compassionate, just as your father is compassionate. You know, you’ve raised some teenagers. I’ve raised some teenagers. Yeah. Some of my proudest times as a dad of a teenager is when I kind of leave it to my teenager to make the right decision. I’ll say, well, you know what the right decision is.

Jeff
And then they go I don’t want to make the right decision. Right. And then later on, I go back and ask my daughter, so what’d you decide? I went ahead and did the right thing. And then, man, I am so proud of her when she chooses the right thing. Yes. Right. Yes. And so he says, just be compassionate. Just as your father’s compassion. You want to make God proud today. Choose to turn the other cheek. When you don’t want to. Choose to pray for that enemy, when you don’t want to choose to be compassionate, when you don’t want to be compassionate, and God’s going to be like, yes, that’s right. That’s what he’s doing. Again, it’s all about the relationship. This whole thing is about God’s relationship with you and your relationship with him. It’s not about these rules. It’s about what’s going on in your heart. And so that’s why he says, hey, so start acting like God would act when you’re compassionate. And God’s going to be so proud, just like you’re proud when your teenager did the right thing, when they didn’t want to. God will be proud of you.

Chris
That’s awesome. Well, that is a great place to end and hopefully we’ll see you on Monday on The Bible Guys.