Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Hey, everybody. It is me. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Hey, everybody. Thank you for tuning in and welcome to The Bible Guys.

Jeff:
We are so glad that you’re here. I’m Jeff, and this is… I am Chris Zarbaugh. Chris Zarbaugh. And we are super excited about today because we have one of our favorite games, and this is the guess the word game. Yeah. So this would be like, what’s the board game like you’d play at home? Taboo. Taboo. Kind of like taboo. So there’s a word I’m trying to get Chris to say, and then there’s a bunch of words I’m not allowed to say. Right. And here on this one, Desiree is getting really aggressive because she said, I can’t use the italicized words or I lose a thousand points. It doesn’t say how many points you get for guessing. Right. She’s only just punishing me. Right. There’s only punishment for me. There’s no reward for you. That’s right. Just punishment.

Chris:
So it’s all zero unless you screw up.

Jeff:
Right. Then I go to the negative. That’s what happens.

Chris:
Hey, by the way, if you happen to be watching this instead of listening, we’re going to put the words on the bottom of the screen that Jeff is not allowed to say just for fun.

Jeff:
Right. And now the very first one, you accidentally opened up my file instead of yours.

Chris:
Which I never do.

Jeff:
Well, I should say hardly ever do. He was trying to sneak. He was trying to, he heard that there was a thousand points on the line for these for me.

Chris:
And you’re trying to just… No, what I actually did in between the segments, I said, Jeff, I said, you’re going to guess the word. And he goes, no, you’re guessing the word. I said, no, you’re guessing the word. And then I realized I’d opened up the wrong file.

Jeff:
Wrong file. So, the first one was supposed to be speed. Speed. And I wasn’t allowed to say fast, slow, velocity, limit, or quick. What would you have said? Movie with Sandra Bullock. Yes!

Chris:
That’s what I was going to say to you! That’s what I was looking at the word.

Jeff:
I would have said bus. Bus movie with Sandra Bullock is what I was going to say.

Chris:
Yes, yes. And I would have said… And Keanu Reeves?

Jeff:
Is that Keanu? Keanu Reeves, yeah.

Chris:
And I would have said speed for sure. And you know me, because that’s my language. And by the way, that is the word that I looked at. I didn’t look at any of the other words. So here we go.

Jeff:
Here’s the second one that I’m not allowed to say. There’s five words I’m not allowed to say. Yes, go ahead. I’m waiting. Largest flightless creature. Ostrich. Ostrich, that’s correct. I’m not allowed to say sand, bird, feather, egg, or emu. Oh, wow. So yeah, those were hard.

Chris:
Well, largest flightless creature was a great description.

Jeff:
There you go.

Chris:
Because that’s obviously the ostrich.

Jeff:
Have you ever seen an ostrich in the wild?

Chris:
Yes. No, no, not in the wild. Oh, yeah. Now have I seen them in like in a safari? I don’t think so.

Jeff:
I’ve seen them in Nakuru. I’ve seen them in the zoo. Yeah. Okay. Anyways. All right. Here’s a tough one. One eye, one leg.

Chris:
When I was a pirate.

Jeff:
There you go. Okay. I could have said Jack Sparrow. That’s what I should have said. Right. Um, oh man, this is a tough one. I was allowed to say ship, patch, treasure, sword, or parrot. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that, that was tough. Okay. Um, you could have said arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr They always play this song as a, it’s from the late seventies, kind of a disco song as a, there you go. So what’s the first word? Oh, celebrate. Celebrate. That’s right. That was hard. Rejoice, birthday, party, occasion, or holiday.

Chris:
How about the fact that I guessed it from there?

Jeff:
You got it. There you go. That’s right.

Chris:
I was literally thinking there was like a 2% chance it was going to be that song. But you said they always play that song. And I thought, what song from the 70s do people adopt and play?

Jeff:
It’s either Celebrate or YMCA. Those are the two. Right.

Chris:
Yeah. Wow. That is crazy that you said it that way.

Jeff:
And then the last one is the only person allowed to speak the truth to the King. What? He’s funny. A prophet? He juggles. Oh, the jester. There you go. So a jester was the only person in the King’s court that was allowed to speak truth. So the jester, that’s the whole purpose of the jester.

Chris:
The jester was to make people laugh.

Jeff:
The jester used comedy to speak the truth to the King, to let the Emperor know he has no clothes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so he had complete immunity as opposed to everybody else in the court. You go tell the King, he’s got something between his teeth. There’s a chance you’re going to get killed. So only the jester could speak the truth to the King.

Chris:
I had no idea.

Jeff:
No, zero idea. Yeah.

Chris:
I thought the court jester was to entertain the king. Yeah, partly. I am blown away right now. You didn’t know that? No.

Jeff:
Okay. Yeah. So anyways, I wasn’t allowed to say court, joker, fool, clown, or jokes. Yeah. Yeah. So that was a tough one. Well, good job. Wow. Look at that. You learned something today.

Chris:
Yeah, no doubt. Okay. I don’t recognize that as an effective method.

Jeff:
Well, they don’t have them anymore. So there’s that.

Chris:
Well, like I, like go tell the King bad news and make it funny.

Jeff:
It wasn’t always funny.

Chris:
Well, you said through comedy.

Jeff:
Sometimes. Yeah. That’s one of the things that they did.

Chris:
So maybe perhaps he would just say, Hey, by the way, you have something between your teeth. Wow. I would think that’d be an opportunity for something funny. Wow.

Jeff:
I absolutely did not know any of that. Not always was it funny, although satire was a big part of it. Sometimes it was a roast, oftentimes of the other politicians. There’s a lot of intellectual engagement. They tended to be intellectually engaging, so there would be big thoughts, big ideas, and then, you know, you and I, we horse around a little bit, but there’s always a bite to the conversation, right? There’s always substance to it. That was a part of that for them, and then they could speak the truth to the king when nobody else could. Son of a gun.

Chris:
Yeah, so well, there you go, you know, we’re kind of like jesters in all the movies and all the movies that I’ve seen With jesters, uh-huh. That was never a part of it.

Jeff:
Uh, well movies are totally true Uh, it’s exactly movies are historically accurate on every level stop

Chris:
Would you not agree though?

Jeff:
The only place that’s more accurate than the movies would be, you know, the internet.

Chris:
Oh my gosh. Listen, there are movies that go out of their way to be painstakingly historically accurate. Sure. And down to like the armor, like Saving Private Ryan. Do you ever see a backstory on that? Down to I mean just just down to they wanted to create that movie to where anybody who experienced World War two and you know, the Omaha Beach storm invasion would have said that is precisely how it was so I saw On that movie specifically.

Jeff:
I saw a veteran say the only thing is I can’t smell it. That’s what he said

Chris:
Wow. So he said, Oh, that gave me shivers. Um, but the point is, is that, so there are movies where I’ve seen it, where they have the fool, they have the jester and he was more like a fool. He was more like, um, but, but never have I seen anybody in that role of a jester speaking truth. You know what the only, the only one.

Jeff:
Hey, Siri, who’s the only person can speak the truth to the King? It’s often said that the jester is the only one who can speak truth to the king.

Chris:
So there we go. You know, the only movie I can think of is History of the World Part One with Mel Brooks.

Jeff:
There’s some accuracy.

Chris:
Yeah, it was a comedy but Dom DeLuise was Caesar and he came in to entertain and he actually he spoke a lot of truth and he got him in trouble with the king because he told a joke that was But the whole feeling in the room got, you know, the happy feeling got sucked away and then they said seize him and he had to run from the king, from Caesar.

Jeff:
So, hey, I’m glad we sorted that out. That must have been a riveting three or four minutes right there as you were sorting that out. And then the proof you used of the accuracy in movies is… History of the World, Part 1. History of the World, Part 1 by Mel Brooks. Anyways, let’s see if we can salvage this today. So, Deuteronomy chapter 7. Thank you, Desiree, by the way, for that. That was a fun one. Deuteronomy is where we’ve been. And remember, Deuteronomy is kind of a summary of all the things that God had taught the people of Israel on Mount Sinai and afterwards. Now Moses is coming to the end of his ministry and end of his leadership. So he’s reminding them of all that God had done before. A lot of the young people have died. A lot of the old people, I mean, have died up to this point because remember, they were going to wander for 40 years and all the people who refused to go into the land, the promised land before were dying. And so Moses is coming back. He’s one of the few long timers left, him and Joshua and Caleb. And so he’s reminding them, these are the things God promised. And so In Deuteronomy chapter seven, we’re continuing because we read all of six yesterday. It says, when the Lord, your God brings you into the land, you are about to enter and occupy. He will clear away many nations ahead of you. The Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are greater and more numerous than you. When the Lord your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them, make no treaties with them, and show them no mercy. You must not intermarry with them. Do not let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters, for they will lead your children away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the Lord will burn against you. He will quickly destroy you. This is what you must do. You must break down their pagan altars and shatter their sacred pillars, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols, for you are a holy people. who belong to the Lord your God. Of all the people on the earth, the Lord your God has chosen you to be his own special treasure. The Lord did not set his heart on you and chose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you are the smallest of all nations. Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves you, and he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the Lord rescued you with such a strong hand from your slavery and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt. Understand, therefore, that the Lord your God is indeed God. He is the faithful God who keeps his covenant for a thousand generations and lavishes his unfailing love on those who love and obey his commands. But he does not hesitate to punish and destroy those who reject him. Therefore, you must obey all these commands, decrees, and regulations I’m giving you today. He goes on, he says, if you listen to these regulations and faithfully obey them, the Lord your God will keep his covenant of unfailing love with you. Most of God’s promises are if-then promises, right?

Chris:
Yeah. In the Old Testament, especially. Because a lot of times, in my opinion, I think that God had a lot of immediate consequences executed against disobedience that I think that Jesus Christ’s sacrifice satisfies today. I think that the, like, for instance, the idea that, you know, somebody would disobey God and die on the spot. I don’t think that, although he did it in the New Testament, didn’t he? Yes, he did. He did in the New Testament. A couple times. Yeah. When, during the, before the Bible was completed. Yeah, it seems like to me that the wrath of God if and thens are still there. I’ve preached the whole thing on this. I have a whole message where I break these down, actually. So I called it labor and delivery. And so I actually called it that and I showed the film on my wife’s first giving birth experience, but not what you’re thinking, just like me, like filming her going to the hospital and things like that. But the idea that we would labor and then be delivered, right? So it’s just that, but it’s the idea of if and then promises. But it seems like to me in the Old Testament, the consequence of sin that was immediately executed as a form of punishment I don’t believe that God still punishes us in the exact same way. And the reason why, for instance, let me give you a hypothetical, see if you agree with this. I remember when I was first dating my wife, Liz, and we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and I was supposed to tithe, right? And I was supposed to give $90, and it was like a big buildup of these funds that I had, or something like this. And I was supposed to tithe, and I didn’t. And I said, oh, I’m just going to have to kick the can down the field, and I’m going to have to save up and give it next time, with the entire intention of still giving, right? So, but, but yet I’m just kicking the can down the field, not honoring God with my very first, first fruits kind of a thing. So what ends up happening is we’re driving down the road and then a rock flies up, hits my windshield and cracks it in a very massive way. Well, then it ends up that I have to replace it. And the bill for that windshield back then was exactly $90. So my wife makes a comment, which is, which brings up a theological conversation. And my wife says, and this is what she says. She goes, well, looks like you got punished for not tithing. And she goes, God got his $90 out of you one way or the other. And I said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. You really believe that? And she says, yes. And now she no longer believes that. And I believe that God does not punish us for our sin in that manner through disobedience. I think that there are forms of punishment that may come, number one, as a consequence for our sins, meaning, you know, if you cheat on your wife, there’s a consequence for your marriage, that kind of thing, right? So there’s, you know, there’s sexual diseases.

Jeff:
So the big sins versus the little sins?

Chris:
No, no, no. I mean, there’s practical things too, right? I mean, there’s, there’s, uh, in other words, there’s earthly consequences. That’s what I’m trying to say. There’s, there’s earthly natural consequences, right? If you’re, if you’re angry all the time, you’re going to lose a bunch of friends. Right? That kind of thing. So I believe there’s earthly consequences. But it seems to me that God’s warnings of punishing against sins, direct disobedience, I don’t think that God works that way. I think that Jesus Christ… But the Hebrew says He does. Well, but— The book of Hebrews literally says— But how does that play out in our lives?

Jeff:
If he doesn’t rebuke you and reprove you, then King James says you’re a bastard and not a son. Yes, but— So God’s active punishment for sin is affirmed in Hebrews.

Chris:
Yes, but this is a good debate. Because at the same time, it talks about the consequence and the payment for all of our sins is taken care of.

Jeff:
Yeah, that’s eternity. That has nothing to do with day-to-day behavior. So he’s still going to, that’s why it says he’s talking about, he’s talking about, you’re not a son if God doesn’t rebuke you.

Chris:
Well, I mean, I know that Romans talks about how he gives us up to a reprobate mind and how, how he… Not Christians.

Jeff:
So I’m talking, so you understand Hebrews is only written to Christians.

Chris:
Okay. So you’re talking about… And so God will spank you.

Jeff:
You’re talking about Christians who sin. It literally says God will spank you. That’s what it says.

Chris:
Yeah. I think that God spanks us in different ways. Yeah.

Jeff:
So where I think that Liz there, there was some truth to what Liz said about the $90. I don’t think it was a punishment for not tithing for $90. So the other side of tithing in Malachi is he says, test me in this. See if I don’t open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing on you. That’s where we stop. But he says, and I’ll hold back the devourer for your sake. Right? So it didn’t have to have been a, an active, I’m going to take 90 bucks out of you as much as it is. I’m not going to protect you from that rock today. Right. That, that, that could be the other side of that, that there is, there are consequences. So you’re walking around without God’s favor. You’re walking around without God’s protection when you’re choosing to walk in disobedience. I think a lot of times on your day to day.

Chris:
See, this is a, this is a good debate because, so I, I have, I have been taught and believe, and I, and let me see if you agree with the statement. So, so God’s, God’s, um, God’s view on sin is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Or yesterday, today, and forever.

Jeff:
Yeah, God is the same.

Chris:
God is the same, that’s right. So in other words, God feels the same way about every sin in the Old Testament as he does in the New Testament. That’s correct. Right? The only difference is, in the Old Testament, he would execute his wrath on people for their sin, and therefore their sin had to be treated differently. They had to, you know, pay for their sins through sacrifices and all these different kinds of things. Because sin has been, every sin has been paid for and is forgiven. It’s not, I’m not sure that I believe that it’s only for just salvation. Jesus’s death, burial and resurrection, because what I’ve always been taught and believe still is that even though that God feels the same way about all of our sin, even after we accept Christ, God’s reaction to our sin is the thing that changes because, because of Jesus Christ.

Jeff:
Yeah. So again, you, I think you’re, you’re, you’re conflating a day-to-day living, the blessing of God, the favor of God on your everyday life. You’re conflating that with salvific grace. There’s two different, two different, you just, you just used two words.

Chris:
I did not understand.

Jeff:
Conflating is mixing up. Salvific is salvation grace, right? Okay. Okay. So, so, I surmised the conflating. So mixing up those two ideas is where it gets confusing. So God does bring justice. And so I would use justice rather than wrath. But he does tell us both in the New Testament and the Old Testament, both to fear God. For sure. Right? So what’s that fear about? Right? So the fear is there are consequences to my everyday behaviors. I’m not going to hell for sinning, but buddy, it’s going to hurt. Life is going to hurt if I choose to live like pagans. If I choose to live his way, life’s not going to hurt as bad. Life still hurts because we’re still sinners and we still live in a broken world, but not as bad. And so God says, I’ll hold back the devourer for your sake. I’m going to pour out my favor on you. And God’s promises, if then promises in the Old Testament are the same as in the New Testament. He continues to give us this, hey, there are consequences to your behavior kind of idea. It’s not heaven and hell, right? That’s resolved. but man, life is going to hurt a lot more when I choose not to live his way. And he tells us that in Hebrews and Paul affirms it with regard to God’s anger and wrath in the book of Romans.

Chris:
But, but so if, if, if, if I’m to believe that God is the same, Um, then, then basically I’m to read this in the Old Testament where he says, if you do not do this, then what does he say? Uh, uh, he says he’s going to punish me for not obeying him.

Jeff:
Yes. So, so, so, so I believe that’s the whole idea of the book of Hebrews when it says he, he literally, it says he punishes you. He spanks you. Yeah. As a Christian. Right. But, but again, that, that,

Chris:
there’s semantics on what does it mean for him to punish you?

Jeff:
Well, he’s not talking about hell because Jesus already solved that.

Chris:
No, I know that. But what I’m saying is, is there’s a big difference between God’s going to get you versus like, he’s going to get you. Like you didn’t do this. Therefore you’re on a, you’re on a zap list. Right. Versus yeah, perhaps you don’t have as much favor or blessings in your life.

Jeff:
Yeah, so I think that you’re looking at the idea that there are a couple of times in the Old Testament, Korah, for instance, where the ground opens up and swallows him, right? And these things, as opposed to God’s long suffering, the fact that God is patient, even in the Old Testament, God is patient. The Canaanites had existed for a thousand years. Yeah. Right. And now he’s saying I’m done with them. Right. So you don’t think he let them live for 40 more years after he brought consequences on them for, for sinning.

Chris:
It’s not all immediate, but it’s also Old Testament stuff. So let me, let me, let me see what you do with this comment. Okay. He says, then the anger of the Lord will burn against you. If you don’t obey what I’m saying to you and he will quickly destroy you. Yes. So in other words, like, I’m going to ask you not to marry these people. So let’s just say they do marry these people. I’m going to destroy you. According to what you’re saying is you’re saying that’s us as Christians. So God gives us commandments. God says, you know, love me, do this, tithe, obey me. And if you don’t do that, then I will quickly destroy you.

Jeff:
I think that the principle translates to Christians. He’s not writing to Christians here. No, he is. He is. No, he’s writing to Israelites. So they weren’t under Christ yet. They were looking forward to Christ. So in the New Testament, God reaffirms these things. And he reaffirms the fact that he does punish and then he punishes with a heavy hand. And that if he doesn’t punish you on occasion for your sin, then you’re not really a son.

Chris:
But how can you qualify that punishment? So why can’t punishment?

Jeff:
I think when you’re being punished, I think you know you’re being punished.

Chris:
I’ve always viewed punishment in the form of misery, in the form of internal struggle, emptiness.

Jeff:
Right? This is coming from a kid who didn’t get punished for going to jail. So you just think there is no punishment in life. That’s not true. That is not true. Right? Your mom took you out to breakfast. That is not true. So I think that the consequence for our sin… That’s one of the funniest things you’ve ever said. I think that having a healthy, this is why even in the New Testament he tells us to fear God. is because even though I’m not going to go to hell now, Jesus differentiates. Jesus says, hey, don’t just fear the person who can kill your body, fear the person who can kill your soul, right? Send you to hell. So Jesus is differentiating between everyday life consequences for our life and punishment from God and hell. So he separates the two. Paul drives that separation deeper. The difference between everyday life consequences, the punishment will come for our sin versus And we see it in Ananias and Sapphira, we see it in others, right? We see that immediate judgment from God, and then he’s establishing in the very first few chapters of Christianity, I haven’t changed. And then finally the author of Hebrews goes, dude, you’re on your way to heaven because you have a high priest who’s paid the price for you. Right? He’s the King who is the high priest who paid the price for you. But that doesn’t mean you’re free from having the judgment of God yet, mind you. And so you should continue to fear God.

Chris:
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, other than the application of punishment of sin.

Jeff:
Because I think all of our listeners that have ever been punished by God know that they were punished by God.

Chris:
No, no, I have been punished by God. I feel it. But what I’m saying is it’s not out to get to usurp you. And it’s certainly not if you disobey, I’m going to destroy you. And so God’s punishment, his reaction towards sin is completely changed. How do we know this? Because Jesus said in John 1 17, he says, Moses came to bring you the law, but meaning that’s not the case with Jesus, but I’ve come to bring you truth and grace.

Jeff:
And to fulfill the law, Jesus also says.

Chris:
Well, that’s not in that statement, but yes. Right. He comes to fulfill the law, but fulfillment of the law. Fulfillment is completion. Right. Fulfillment of the law means, you know, to fulfill the sacrifices. He’s talking about, he’s the fulfillment of everything that isn’t done, but now that it’s done,

Jeff:
So over the last couple of days, we read the 10 commandments. Let’s just look at those 10. The fact that Jesus fulfilled the law for adultery, he fulfilled the law for murder does not mean he takes us off the hook for adultery.

Chris:
I know, but think about what you’re saying. Fulfilling the law means I’m trying, trying, trying to do, do, do, do, do, but we can’t do enough. That’s obedience.

Jeff:
We can’t obey the law. We can obey the laws of God, otherwise he wouldn’t have told us to. But I’m talking about— But we don’t because we’re sinners. I know. But it’s a choice. It’s not a compulsion.

Chris:
This is a great debate, by the way. Yeah. But what I’m saying is the fulfillment of the law means you no longer have to strive. You no longer have to strive— Not for salvation. Not for salvation.

Jeff:
But for holiness, you do. I would say that there’s— Oh, he tells us all the time to work at it. Sure. In the New Testament.

Chris:
But again, we’re saying the same things.

Jeff:
So we have to strive for holiness, even though we don’t have to strive for salvation.

Chris:
The ingredient in this debate is… And blessing comes from holiness. The ingredient in this debate is punishment. That’s the only thing that matters.

Jeff:
Well, I would say that you’re focusing on the wrong thing. His promises are… Well, it’s theology. Right. So his promises are blessing. There’s a flip side to every blessing. If-thens. Every blessing has a consequence.

Chris:
Again, I’m not disagreeing with a single comment you’re saying. It’s just that your interpretation of punishment and consequences for sin, I think, differs from mine.

Jeff:
So I’m not the one focusing on punishment. You are. All of the last three days, I’ve focused on the promises, the blessings.

Chris:
Well, I believe that punishment happens. To ignore it doesn’t mean, I’m just saying, if you want to talk about your view about it, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t, you’re saying focus. What I’m saying is what’s your view on it, which means you have to focus if you’re going to talk about the view. I’m not saying live my life focusing on it. I’m just saying in this debate, you have to have a view on it.

Jeff:
Here’s what I would suggest. Here’s what I suggest. When you sleep at night, you should have Chris’s view. When you live during the day, you should have mine. Go to bed at night, knowing that you’re at peace with God. Wake up in the morning, working to not go against God’s commands.

Chris:
And by the way, that’s a fair way to live. Yes. And under my view, those are still the same things.

Jeff:
I don’t know what your motivation is under your view to do the right thing. God threatens us with consequences of our sin. And that’s why he says, fear me. Yeah. Right. And then he says, you’re not my child. If I don’t discipline you regularly.

Chris:
I view it as fearful of missing out on the blessings of God. And I view it as God invites us to serve him because we want to, which is a much stronger motivation than we have to.

Jeff:
So, so in the old Testament, don’t you wish that you had a church full of people who wanted to obey God?

Chris:
And that is the challenge, which is why Paul says, shall we still continue to sin like grace abound?

Jeff:
That’s superior, but he still has a baseline. And the baseline is there’s consequences. I understand, but again… Now he’s good and graceful. Peter tells us that God is not slack concerning his promises, but he’s patient. So it’s the same guy. God was patient in the Old Testament too.

Chris:
I agree. The only difference between what you and I are saying is the punishment side of things.

Jeff:
So the principles that guide us… Well, I’m just reading all the verses in the Bible and you’re just choosing which ones you want to listen to. That’s not true at all. That’s not true at all. We’ve got a lot of bonus material here today.

Chris:
I believe every verse and every concept. The only difference is, I don’t believe that God… I just don’t see the God of the Old Testament being different from the God of the New Testament. I believe that God himself is the same. I believe that God’s reaction to us is completely different.

Jeff:
I think that only salvation is the difference.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s going to be agreed to disagree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff:
That’s great. Look at that man, three and a half extra minutes.

Chris:
Well, this is the longest we’ve ever gone by far. All right. This is a great debate. Okay. We will see you next time on The Bible Guys.