Transcription

Chris
Jeff. I want a divorce. Uh oh. A divorce from sugar of my diet.

Jeff
Oh, I thought you were saying does. Liz.

Chris
No, no, I.

Jeff
I want.

Chris
To divorce myself from, you know, unhealthy food.

Jeff
Oh, you want to end your relationship with bad food? Yes, I do not. I want.

Chris
A divorce.

Jeff
I do not. Well, that’s partly what we’re talking about today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he’s Chris and I’m Jeff and we’re the Bible guys. Okay. Chris.

Chris
Yes. Here we go. We have a segment today called Who’s Most Likely.

Jeff
Oh I have my.

Chris
We’re going to use the Jeff and Chris paddles for those listening online. Uh don’t worry about it. We just have paddles with our faces on them and we’re going to hold them up and vote yes. Yes. So the question is this is who’s most likely to do these things? Uh, and then we’re just supposed to hold it up and guess. Okay. And you know, the you know what the secret of this is, is, is, uh, uh, first instinct. First instinct. Just just just quickly.

Jeff
First two seconds. Yes.

Chris
Okay. Ready?

Jeff
Yes.

Chris
Who’s most likely to go in a submarine? Me? You.

Jeff
Jeff? Yes.

Chris
You good.

Jeff
That’s who you voted for, too. Yep. Okay.

Chris
And why?

Jeff
Um, because anything that seems a little dangerous, I want to try.

Chris
Yeah. And and I am, uh, deathly claustrophobic. Oh. Are you. And I’m not sure how I would react knowing that I was in the depths of the ocean in a tiny tube.

Jeff
I would totally do it in a heartbeat.

Chris
Yeah. Okay. All right, here we go. Who’s most likely to speak multiple different languages?

Jeff
I don’t know, I’m terrible at languages. I would.

Chris
Say me. You.

Jeff
Is it you? Yeah. Yeah.

Chris
Okay. I speak pig Latin. Do you really? Yeah.

Jeff
Wow.

Chris
You’d think they at the UK only.

Jeff
Oh, wow. Your mom must be so proud. Yes.

Chris
You know what I said? No. You think you could learn?

Jeff
Oh, yeah.

Chris
Do you remember the office? Where? Where? Uh, Pam hated Pig Latin, and Andy wanted to ask her out, so Jim’s like. Oh, just ask her out in pig Latin. Yeah, it’s really funny.

Jeff
So I know my name in pig Latin for oyster Bay.

Chris
Oh, wow. Good job. Good, good. Gay object. Yeah. Great. All right, here we go. So, uh, who’s most likely. Oh. Excuse me. I’m sorry. That’s the one I just read. Who’s most likely to take up photography as a hobby?

Jeff
Oh, boy. I take a lot of pictures. But you, uh.

Chris
We both voted ourselves. We both voted ourselves.

Jeff
Yeah, let’s let’s look at our Instagram pages.

Chris
Yeah, well, I mean, uh. Oh, I see, because it’s not interest. You’re saying, like, actual habits because I don’t take a lot of photos, but I’ve always thought that I’d like to. You take.

Jeff
Good photos.

Chris
I do take good photos, but I just don’t take them often.

Jeff
All right. My Instagram is Jeff Forster, 71.

Chris
Oh, look at you. Yeah, yeah, mine is mine. Mine is Zarbs 777.

Jeff
Yeah, I’m telling you, man, it’s it’s pretty cool. I have some great ones, but I’m not going to show it to you now okay?

Chris
Okay. Number four, there’s only two more. Who’s most likely to win a game of pick up basketball? You. That’s me. Yep. That’s me. And I really don’t love basketball, but I’m not bad. Are you a good shot? I’m decent. Yeah.

Jeff
You beat me in the last pickup game that we played. Yeah, that’s why I said that. Yes. I just don’t have a shot.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m a decent shot.

Jeff
I could dunk when I was in high school. Could you really? Yeah, I could dunk a volleyball and I could palm a girl’s basketball and dunk that. But I had to bounce the a men’s basketball off the off the backboard in order to dunk it.

Chris
I could dunk a donut. Yeah yeah. Today.

Jeff
But I can’t dunk it anymore. Right right.

Chris
Right. Yeah for sure.

Jeff
I have like an anchor now that holds me to the ground. I can’t fly like I used to. That’s funny. That’s back in the old days.

Chris
The last one who’s most likely to eat a hot dog with ketchup and mustard. Only Jeff
Not me.

Chris
Not me either.

Jeff
Yeah. Desiree.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Let’s just vote for Desiree.

Chris
Vote? Desiree? That’s so funny.

Jeff
That’s right.

Chris
That’s so great. Yeah, yeah. You’re like. You’re like, I’m not even voting for that.

Jeff
Yeah, it’s not me at all. And, uh, no.

Chris
If I’m at a if I’m at a ballpark. I recently went down to the, uh, Hall of Fame, like last week. Oh, uh, and we actually saw the Browns play the Jets and the. And the preseason game.

Jeff
The Football Hall of Fame.

Chris
Yep. And we got a hot dog. Okay. And, uh, and I said, do you have any relish? They’re like, oh, we’re out of relish. Do you have any onions? Do we have any onions? So all I had was mustard and ketchup.

Jeff
Sure.

Chris
Yeah, so I did, but but I didn’t like it.

Jeff
Yeah. I mean I’ll do it if, if that’s what we have, that’s what I’ll do. Um, I love, like, get a good, uh, sausage at a ballpark. Yeah. With onions and and peppers. Oh, yeah. You know, like like the grilled onions and peppers. And then just one line of mustard like that. That’s just one. Love it. Love it. Sounds great. Yep.

Chris
Okay.

Jeff
I’m hungry. Yeah.

Chris
So, Matthew, chapter five we are talking about today, uh, three topics, right?

Jeff
Lust, divorce and vows. Yeah. Yes. So our listeners are so glad that they tuned into this one.

Chris
Well, Jesus said it, so we got to talk about it.

Jeff
Okay? Okay, kids. So, uh, Jeff and Chris are done with their game. It’s time to turn the podcast off.

Chris
Yeah.

Chris
This will be this will be G rated, G rated.

Jeff
PG rated probably. Yeah. So, uh, Matthew, chapter five, we’re continuing. This is a part of the the sermon on the Mount Matthew chapter five, six and seven. And uh, he says this. He says, you have heard that the commandment says you must not commit adultery. But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust. Has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye, even your good eye, causes you as opposed to your bad eye, your good eye, even your good eye causes you to lust gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into the into hell. And if your hand, even your stronger hand, causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. Okay, well that’s tough.

Chris
Yeah, that’s a that’s a heck of a visual.

Jeff
Not very secret sensitive.

Chris
Right?

Jeff
Matthew, chapter 531 says, you have heard the law that says a man can divorce his wife for by merely giving her a written notice of divorce. But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery. You have also heard that our ancestors were told, you must not break your vows. You must carry out the vows you make to the Lord. But I say, do not make any vows. Do not say by heaven, because heaven is God’s throne. Do not say by the earth, because the earth is his footstool. And do not say by Jerusalem. For Jerusalem is the city of the great King. Do not even say by my head, for you can’t turn one hair white or black. Just say a simple yes, I will or no, I won’t. Anything beyond this is from the evil one.

Chris
Mhm. Jeff
There you go.

Chris
Okay.

Jeff
Well he covered some miles on that one. I think you should just take all these topics and I’ll just nod in agreement.

Chris
Well the bottom line is this should be three podcasts. Yes it should as opposed to one podcast.

Jeff
But since it’s a devotional instead of a, a Bible study. Yeah, we’re just kind of surface talk.

Chris
Yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah. So so, uh, so first of all, we’re just wanting to continue the idea that when Jesus was saying, uh, you know, you’ve heard that, you know, committing adultery is a sin and, and, and, you know, you’re going to have judgment. But I’m telling you that even if you lust after a woman in your own heart, you commit adultery. Uh, and by the way, I remember in my conservative days when I was going to a very conservative church, I remember, uh, remember the swimsuit?

Jeff
Uh, shouldn’t you say fundamentalist? Sure. Instead of conservative? Sure.

Chris
Fundamentalist. Yeah. Uh. Uh, when I was, when I was, you know, the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, I remember walking into the grocery store and, you know, back then there was no internet, so it’s like magazines or nothing. And it’s like, oh, there’s the swimsuit issue. And I remember glancing at the cover, and then I was with my youth pastor and he goes, you just committed adultery. And I was like, I just looked at the cover, didn’t run over and pick it up or anything, you know, but it was just one of those things where it’s like you can hear it at face value and, and understand, like, wow, like that apparently stands out above all the other sins, you know, because it’s equivalent to adultery. And what Jesus was really saying was he was saying, don’t think you’re righteous just because you don’t commit adultery. Uh, because you’re not above anybody else. Uh, but let me change that. Uh. I’m not. I didn’t say that the right way. It’s the idea that righteousness.

Jeff
Where’s he going with this?

Chris
Righteousness can get you to heaven, right? That’s that idea that Jesus is bucking right.

Jeff
The belief that you can you can behave in a way that will get you to heaven. Right.

Chris
And what he’s saying is, if you break one area of the law, you break the whole law. That’s right. That’s what.

Chris
He’s saying. So, so, so don’t.

Chris
Think you’re more righteous just because you don’t commit adultery. Because. Because when you lust, you break the law just the same, right? Right.

Jeff
So yesterday we talked about, you know, we tend to differentiate between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law and Jesus saying both the letter and the spirit were being measured by. Right. So do you remember a couple of days ago, maybe it was a week or two ago. We talked about when you read Paul’s writings, you had oh, it was when we answered that question, remember about. Yeah. Something pastor. Yeah. And when you read Paul’s writings, you have to read the whole passage because he’ll start off with an idea. Then he kind of talks about all the ideas, and then he summarizes the idea. This is a middle eastern thought process. It’s what Jesus is doing here. So Jesus starts off talking about, um, uh, being salt and light, and then he pivots into kind of he’s talking about the Pharisees a little bit in the law. And then he goes, I didn’t come to abolish it. I came to fulfill it. And then he goes, you’ve heard?

Chris
Yep.

Jeff
You’ve heard this right. You’ve heard that your ancestors said, don’t do this, or you’ve heard that the law says this. So he talks about anger. He talks about lust, he talks about divorce. He talks about vows in a minute. Tomorrow he’s going to talk about revenge. He’s going to talk about loving your enemies. All of these things. What he’s doing is he’s still building the argument that it’s not possible to fulfill the law. And then what he does is he chooses five of the big law ideas and says, you think you fulfill the law just by not doing the bad thing, right? Right. You think you fulfill the law by just not committing adultery. But. Lustful thought is in that same vein. It’s in that same idea. It’s in that same concept. And so, um, it’s it’s not just the letter of the law, it’s the spirit of the law. And he, he builds the same argument five times. So basically these five things are the same. They’re the same argument. He’s not trying to introduce some new teaching. Right, right. What he’s trying to say is you think that okay. Um, do you ever hear the story? Here’s the best illustration I can think of this. You ever hear the story about the little boy who’s jumping on the couch and his mom says, you sit down, and he’s like, I don’t want to sit down. He just keeps jumping. And she said, you sit down right now or you’re going to get a spanking. So he sits down, folds his arms. He’s all grumpy, and he says, I might be sitting down on the inside, but on the outside I’m still jumping on this couch. I might be sitting down on the outside, but on the inside I’m jumping. Jeff
So jumping on the couch. So was that obedience? No, he wasn’t obeying. He obeyed physically, but he wasn’t obeying, you know, mentally or in his heart.

Chris
Right? He’s rebelling in his heart.

Jeff
He’s right. So rebellion is still sin, right? And that would be the issue. And so he’s what he’s trying to say is it’s not just outward behavior. God’s paying attention to God’s paying attention to the heart. He’s paying attention to what’s on the inside. So in this passage, in the notes here, and I mentioned this to you earlier, um, Jesus emphasized that if the act is wrong, then so is the intention. That’s that’s really it, right? It’s the intent of it. So noticing a beautiful woman for a man, uh, is not a sin, right? It’s it’s. What is the intent? If the intent is if I could, I would. Well, now you’ve crossed the line into the lust. And this essentially at the same level as, as, you know, committing adultery, that would be it. So it’s intent? No. Um, who is it? Benjamin Franklin said, uh uh, I can’t prevent a bird from landing on my head, but I can prevent him from building a nest in my hair. Do you ever hear him say that?

Chris
Right? Yeah.

Jeff
Well, you probably didn’t hear him say that. But you’ve ever heard that he had said that it’s the same kind of idea. Uh, things pop up. They. They come in front of us in our lives, and that’s not the issue. It’s. How do we dwell on it? It’s. Is it? If we could, we would kind of an idea. Um, and this is what Jesus is trying to say. It’s really all about the heart and what’s on the inside. It’s the intent as well as the behavior itself.

Chris
Yeah. That’s great. Yeah.

Chris
And then he goes on, you know, talking about divorce and, and, uh, you know, uh, you know, man can divorce his wife by merely a written. But but it was really trying to say there’s a difference. You’re still violating the law. Divorce is wound up in that, by the way. That is a whole can of worms, isn’t it? Sure. Uh, you know, there’s all all sorts of.

Jeff
Pervasive in our culture.

Chris
Yeah, there’s all sorts of.

Jeff
Back then, too.

Chris
Yes, uh, theories and everything else. Uh, and then then we talked about, uh, vows. Right. Uh, you you must not break your vows. And then he says, hey, listen, you want to talk about breaking vows? He uses the simplest, uh, you know, example. Have you ever, uh, seen somebody that says, uh, no, I didn’t do it. And then they’ll say, I promise I didn’t do it. Listen, I swear to God, I swear to God I’ve never done it. And what he’s saying is, he’s saying, no, listen, you break vows all the time. Yeah. He’s like, just let your yes be. Yes. Let your no be. No. And that’s it. Right? Right. So so so a vow like I commit to defend the Queen for the rest of my life. You know, that’s a pretty big vow, right? Or to watch the Holy Grail until Indiana Jones comes hundreds of years later. Like, these are big vows that, you know, that span lifetimes. And he’s saying no in the same way. It’s the same example, right? We make little vows all the time.

Jeff
And so if you’re yes really is yes. And you’re no really is no. Right. And you’re famous for that, that you’re a man of your word. You keep your word. You don’t need to say, I swear to God or woman.

Chris
Of your word. Yeah.

Jeff
You don’t need to say, well, I’m talking to you.

Chris
Right.

Jeff
So however you identify, I guess.

Chris
Chris, um, but.

Jeff
I was talking to you specifically. I made I made eye contact when I said it.

Chris
I was. So.

Chris
So you’re always looking at me, but you don’t necessarily have to address me. You can talk about people of the world we were having.

Jeff
I thought we were having a conversation.

Jeff
Okay. That’s fine. Listeners were listening.

Chris
Mind that it could have been taken both ways.

Jeff
And clearly it was Chris
I can’t I can’t believe you just said that.

Chris
So funny.

Jeff
So so these days, I guess so, yeah. Uh, anyways, if if you’re a person of your word and you’re famous for being a person of your word. Me yes. You specifically.

Chris
Yes.

Jeff
Um. And you’re famous for that, then there is never a need for, I swear to God, right? Never need.

Chris
Correct.

Jeff
Because, uh, so the issue here is if you have to swear on God or if you have to swear on, on the Bible, or if you have to swear on, then what that means is that your character has not been proven to be trustworthy. Right. And so now you’re trying to bring some other authority and and how about this? How about we just develop a reputation that when we say yes, it’s yes. And when we say no, it’s no. And this has been a big part of the American way, you know, for hundreds of years, the idea that a man could sell property with a handshake, um, you know, that was the idea that was the ideal for generations. And now, man alive. You can’t sell anything without 35. Initial here, initial here. Sign here, sign here. You’re swearing away your children. You know, your firstborn. All this stuff. Everything is turned into these big long contracts. It’s because America has stopped being people of their word. Right. And so in this one, if you were a person of your word, you’d never have to use invoke God’s name to prove that you were really okay this time. I really am telling the truth. I swear to God, as opposed to right? I just always tell the truth. I’m going to do it. I’m a man of my word. I’m a woman of my word. Uh, whatever. And, uh, I think that if we did that. And that’s what I think the challenge Jesus is trying to do there just always be honest. You don’t you don’t have to be, you know, using God’s name to to prove that you’re really going to be extra honest this time.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
And there’s no such thing as being extra honest.

Chris
Yes. And by the way, uh, again, just like Jeff said, uh, he’s taking the sort of the five big ideas that are connected to the five big, you know, do not commit adultery, you know, do not lie, do not write, uh, you know, do not, uh, you know, do not kill, you know, all these things, right? Uh, the Ten Commandments, it’s literally told to us in the New Testament that the Ten Commandments were not given so that we might, uh, fulfill them and obtain heaven. They were given to show us that we need God. That’s right. We were. So in other words, literally, it tells us the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to show us that we cannot fulfill them, that that was it, that to show us how sinful we are.

Jeff
Otherwise we ten all the commandments. Yeah.

Chris
613 yeah, the whole thing. But what I’m saying is, is because.

Jeff
It is possible for you not to kill people today.

Chris
Yes, it is possible for it.

Jeff
So it’s possible for you to keep every one of the commandments, but every one of the Ten Commandments. It’s possible. But practically speaking, we’re all sinners and none of us do it perfectly.

Chris
So we have this, uh, thing that I do. I do this thing, and I haven’t done it in so long. I’ve been talking, like, probably like five years where I’ve never done it since I’ve been at heritage, for sure. But you ask people to stand up and you say, okay, I’m going to read through the Ten Commandments, and then I’m going to have you sit down when you feel like you’ve violated one of them.

Jeff
Oh, no.

Chris
Okay. And actually, it’s pretty, pretty funny. Like people are pretty willing to do it. Like, okay, number one, you shall have no other gods before me. And it’s like only usually it’s only like 5% of the room that sits down. Yeah, right. Because they take it literal, like like they’re like, I don’t worship a statue. Right, right. And so it’s like, you know, then then you go down the line and, you know, honor your father and mother. Then you get, you know, you get a few, you know, a few come down. And then when you, when you get to adultery is like, uh oh, we just well, just about.

Jeff
Everybody should sit down and remember the Sabbath.

Chris
Right?

Jeff
That’s when I’d sit down. I’d be looking for the one I could sit down on.

Chris
Right? Right. Jeff
I’m sitting down on that one.

Jeff
The Sabbath.

Chris
Well, no other gods before me, you know, it depends on what you place as a god.

Jeff
Where your priorities. Right?

Chris
Yeah, yeah. So I think everybody violates the first commandment. Everybody. Right. So anyway, uh, but it is kind of funny to watch people, uh, you know, respond to that. And if there’s anybody standing by the end of the 10th one, then it’s like, come on. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Jeff
So there’s a note. You know, we love promoting the Life Application Study Bible. There’s a note in here. It says six Ways to Think Like Jesus. And this is the best summary of this whole concept. All of these ideas. So a lot of people want to dig in on the specifics. And I don’t think that he’s trying to give us specifics. More often than not, we avoid the extreme sins like murder, but we regularly commit the types of sins with which Jesus was most concerned. The stuff inside, right? He’s concerned on what’s on the inside. In these six examples, our real struggle with sin is exposed. Jesus pointed out what kind of lives would be required of his followers. Right? So remember, on the front end, hey, you need to be humble. You need to be a person who’s hungry for God. You need to be willing to face persecution. That’s what he’s telling his followers. You need to be like that. Then you need to be light. You need to be salt. He’s telling them, this is what I want from you. And then he he’s telling them, listen, if you think it’s just the letter of the law, I need you to be more concerned about the intent. I need you to be concerned about what’s inside, not just what’s on the outside. So he says murder, which he’s telling us it’s not enough just to avoid killing. He’s saying instead, avoid anger and hatred. That’s what my kingdom looks like. If my followers should look like that instead of sacrifices, you know, uh, he’s offer regular gifts and have right relationship with God instead of adultery. It’s not enough just to avoid, you know, uh, being intimate with somebody who’s not your spouse. Jeff
Instead, keep your hearts from lusting and being, uh, and instead choose to be faithful instead of divorce being just simply. It’s not enough to be legally married, but to live out your marriage commitments. That’s what he’s saying here. So Jesus is inviting them to another level of living, trying to explain to them what his kingdom and his his followers are going to be like. Not just rule keepers, but people whose hearts are pursuing God. That’s that. That idea. Being hungry and thirsty for God. Yeah. If you’re hungry and thirsty for God, you’re not going to ask, so what is the rule? What’s the you’re not going to ask that. You’re going to begin to say, how do I make sure my heart doesn’t even desire that? How do I stay away from those things? Right. And so that’s what he’s doing.

Chris
It reminds me of every relationship.

Chris
But can you imagine if, uh. Oh. Excuse me. It was, uh.

Chris
That was brilliant. That was unfortunate.

Jeff
Well, you’re boring yourself now. Usually it’s me boring you.

Jeff
So I can’t believe I’m talking about this. Why am I still talking? Yeah.

Chris
I just started talking. So, uh. So it’s a. Well. Holy cow, now I forgot what I was gonna say. Oh, I was gonna say it’s like any relationship. Can you imagine if your wife, for instance, said, uh, make sure you do these ten things, you know, to make me happy, and you didn’t have any heart behind it. Right? Right, right. Like like you were home, but you didn’t really want to be home, right? Right. Yeah. You know, it’s like. It’s like, can you imagine just going through the motions with, with with bad intent and your heart wasn’t there? Uh, then that’s why Jesus is saying it’s not about the rules. It’s about the relationship. Right? It’s about wanting to serve God. It’s about. It’s about loving God. You know, uh, you know, yesterday we talked about you had said like, you know, uh, knowing God, obeying God, eventually getting to love God, uh, you know, and that’s probably true. And we do need to obey God regardless of what of of of how we feel for certain. Yeah, but I think the most healthy way to obey God is out of love. So, you know, it’s just so much easier that way, right? Not because we have to, but because we want to.

Jeff
Well, that’s more sustainable.

Chris
Yes. So which is why it’s healthier.

Jeff
So I think, you know, this is true with regard to intimacy in general in marriage or whatever. Uh, uh, not to be overly explicit, but nobody wants their spouse or their partner to just go through the perfunctory motion. Right. Yeah. You want to be wanted, right? You want it to be a heart thing, right? A connection there. And that’s what God wants God. God wants the relationship. But there are times and it’s not inappropriate. Uh, even psychologists will say sometimes you just get started and then you find yourself getting into it, right? Right. And it’s the same thing. Sometimes you just obey. Just obey even when you don’t feel like it. And next thing you know, you just are being drawn more closer and closer and closer to God. Right. And there is something about that. So obey always. But what God’s desire is that your heart would would follow. And there is once you get started, sometimes then, then your heart and your desire for God follows. And so which came first? I’m not sure that you can know. Right? It’s kind of this perpetually evolving thing, but God wants your heart more than he just wants your perfunctory obedience. He wants both. Yeah, right. That’s right. But he wants your heart.

Chris
Well, that’s really great. That’s a great place to end. Good. So, uh, hey, we will see you next time hopefully on The Bible Guys.