Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Hey. Good morning. And if indeed you’re listening in the morning.

Jeff
Yeah, you do that all the time. Morning. You’re just assuming.

Chris
I wonder if there’s a way to tell when people listen.

Jeff
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is there? Yeah. About half the people listen, uh, between, like, 6 a.m. and 10 a.m.. Uh, half the people listen, like, 7 to 9.

Chris
Oh, son of a gun. Either before work or after work.

Jeff
Pretty much. Yeah. 7 to 10. Something like that at night.

Chris
Or if you stay home and get ready. Yeah. So hey, I’m Chris, this is Geoff. We are the Bible guys. And today we’re going to.

Jeff
Do the best we can.

Chris
Today we’re going to do the best we can. Jeff’s fighting a cough.

Jeff
That’s right.

Chris
Still, he might have to, uh, cough a few times for, like.

Jeff
The 10th year. Yeah, yeah, it’s just a post-nasal drip. I’m not sick or anything. I feel okay.

Chris
Yeah, when you’re saying that, because nobody really can catch Covid if you had Covid. No, I know, except for me. But I’m the only one.

Jeff
What’ll happen is we’ll get, you know, 30 recipes for ways to fix it.

Chris
Right?

Jeff
Right right right right, right. But it’s almost gone.

Chris
My grandma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Used to put it down. Just mix.

Jeff
This elixir.

Chris
Yeah. Elixir. Uh, well, today we’re going to start off with a segment of Mailbags Mailbags. There you go. So, uh, so. Sandy. Ah. Sandy. Ah. Said I enjoyed you guys debating whether a hot dog is a sandwich.

Jeff
It’s the deeper things that really have moved me.

Chris
I enjoy you guys debating whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich or not. And I know Chris is a huge movie buff, so I would love to hear you two debate whether books or movies are better.

Jeff
Oh, wow. So so that’s interesting because I’m a book buff, so yeah, it’s yeah, I’ve read I know I’ve read more books than I’ve watched movies.

Chris
Oh for sure. I mean, based on your stories. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah. Well, I grew up without a TV and we didn’t go to the movies when I was a kid, right, right. So I got started really, really late.

Chris
Yeah, right. And you got started on books really, really early. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, um, so here’s, here’s what I know for a fact. I agree that books are better. Almost always.

Jeff
Oh, well, there you go.

Chris
Right.

Jeff
So then it’s soft. There you go, Sandy.

Chris
So. And you agree I’m assuming too. Yes, yes, yes. So, uh, books can accomplish things that movies can’t. Right. And also uh, books uh, aren’t uh, limited to 90 minutes or so. Right? I mean, sometimes directors will push the boundaries, right. Uh, but Jackson.

Jeff
Jackson pushed it out on, uh, was it Lord of the rings series? Right. He got out to, like, 2.5 hours.

Chris
Yeah. Godfather. Titanic. Yeah. Uh, but but these are these are few and far between. So I think for the most part, um, movies have to, uh, be a slave to the almighty dollar in profit.

Jeff
The commercial side of it.

Chris
Yeah, the commercial side.

Jeff
Producers are requiring tickets to be sold, and nobody buys four hour movies. With that.

Chris
Being said, uh, I first watched my favorite movie, The Count of Monte Cristo. Uh huh, uh, and and it was a movie made in the year 2000 with Jim Caviezel. Yeah. And it’s it’s it’s my favorite movie of all time. Okay, okay. Because it has everything in it, by the way. And then I like I liked it so much and still do that I read the novel and you’re talking about a thousand pages. Yeah, it’s a long book. It’s a long book. Yeah. And then.

Jeff
This 700 and something, I think.

Chris
Yeah. And I think I’ve even mentioned this before, once or twice on here, just in quick reference. But since it’s the debate, I’ll just say this, uh, the book was better. The movie was actually better than the book in this in this case. Oh, really? Do you think so? Yeah. No, I know, so I know so because the book was written a long, long time ago. So that’s probably it, right? So you know how, like, you know, when you’re trying to connect with something that was written 300 years ago or whatever it is? Uh, it maybe it just doesn’t translate where maybe, perhaps somebody in 1850 could have read it and been like, wow, wow, uh, you know, so I loved it.

Jeff
I have a copy of the yeah, yeah, Monte Cristo on my on my shelf. Yeah, I think I still prefer the book.

Chris
I thought it was there was parts of it that were quite literally ridiculous. I think you.

Jeff
Have a little bit of a man crush on Jim Caviezel, though.

Chris
Too. Oh, is that it? Is that your answer to everything? Yeah, yeah, I have a man crush on whoever I’m a fan of.

Jeff
Yeah, because when you were reading Dumas’s version of it, you’re like, I just can’t see Jim in this one. No, dude, because it was written for Jim.

Chris
What a poor assumption. What a poor assumption on your part. No, I thought that the I thought that the only thing that they did, uh, poorly was they could have developed, uh, the man who, um, who was like a father figure to Jim Caviezel. They could have developed him more. Um, there was a whole storyline about his fleet of ships that was lost. Yeah. You just.

Jeff
Can’t do that in a 90 minute movie.

Chris
Yeah, yeah. So that part, I was like, oh, what a shame that we missed that, right? Uh, but everything else about him going to the island and there’s goats everywhere, and he plays like a Sinbad. He’s like, my name is Sinbad. That whole thing can just. It can just go away, all right? I’m like. I’m like that. Did that, did the movie.

Jeff
I just read a list the other day.

Chris
No justice.

Jeff
Whatsoever. So I love leather bound books. Yeah, yeah. And there’s, there’s two companies that make really, really, really, really good ones. One, Easton still makes great like 100. Their $100, $150 a piece. Yeah, he’s amazing, but they’re, uh. And then there was another company, Franklin Library, that used to do it. They don’t make them anymore, but both of them have lists of the hundred, 100 greatest books ever written. Mhm. Um, the hundred most loved books ever written and the hundred books that changed the world. Right. So they have these three.

Chris
Oh, wow. That’s. Those are three great lists, by the way. Yeah.

Jeff
And so there’s a lot of overlap. There’s probably I’d say 30 or 40% overlap between the three. Sure. Three lists. Um, and The Count of Monte Cristo is on all three of those. Those lists. Son of a gun. So then, uh, it led. Then I went down this rabbit trail. This is so weird. This was, like, literally two days ago. Mhm. Um, I start going down this rabbit trail and, uh, Oxford, uh, has a list of the 100 greatest books ever written. Monte Cristo is on it. Right. You just go to. So, you know, I’m sure that your critique of The Count of Monte Cristo carries way more weight than because they didn’t say it’s one of the 100 greatest books ever. It would be the greatest book ever if he’d left out the goat part. Right. Little asterisk next to it. So? So. Hey, that’s so good. Ah. That’s funny, that’s so good. But yeah. Yeah. So it is interesting. So the, the we’re arguing about the Count of Monte Cristo. Now the question though, and I thought it was great was movies or books. And even you would say a book can just do so much more than a movie can do. Yes, yes. For me it would be the difference between entertainment and amusement. Right. So so a book. Yeah, it would be typically entertainment. A movie is typically amusement.

Chris
Well, and that’s kind of semantical I think a little.

Jeff
Well, no, amusement means amuse. It means is not is no to me. Right. Versus entertainment being. It’s engaging your mind, engaging your emotions.

Chris
Yeah. I think movies.

Jeff
Moving you in a place. Yeah.

Chris
Movies do that 90% of the time.

Jeff
Yeah. That’s a ridiculous. No no no no. So what I’m saying is the majority of the time, for me personally, for me personally, I watch a movie to turn my brain off.

Chris
Oh, okay.

Jeff
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.

Chris
All right. Well, you should live.

Jeff
With that, I watch it. Yeah. I’m sorry. That’s semantics. What are you talking about? Yeah. So. So, um. Yeah. So for me, I guess I’ll watch a movie or I’ll watch something to turn my brain off, because I’ve been going all day long. It’s all mental. And if I don’t turn my brain off, I don’t go to sleep. But if I can. If I can turn my brain off, that’s me too. If I turn my brain off, it’s usually watching some dumb movie that I may not even remember all of the issues or all the things tomorrow. Whereas I think for you, you are you consuming that movie. You’re consuming that story.

Chris
Yeah, I’m engrossed in it.

Jeff
Yeah. You’re, you’re you’re taking it in and feeling it. And for me, I’m like, yeah, I think there was, I don’t know, some cannibal took a guy’s leg off or something. I’m not I’m, I don’t even remember what that story was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. So it’s more movies are amusement for me. Books are more entertainment for me.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess every time we throw out a statement like that, it’s always based on our opinions. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So so. Yeah, I forgive me. Forgive me there, but.

Jeff
I was harassing.

Chris
You. But the the bottom line is, is, uh. Yeah, I, I, I just think that, by the way, uh, we’re not going to do a segment on what makes Chris mad, but do you ever love a movie so much? And then you want somebody to watch it, and then you’re totally into this phenomenal scene. You look over and they’re on their phone.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Chris
And that is just like, oh, you have or the other way.

Jeff
What really makes my daughter mad, which she listens to our podcasts all the time. So. Hi, Jenna. Uh, what makes my daughter mad all the time is she wants me to watch a TikTok. That’s hysterically funny to her. Yeah, and I’m like, I. You don’t laugh. It’s not funny. It’s so funny. And it makes her so mad. So I’m sorry. Jenna. Okay, well, hey, we went long on that on that thing, but it’s because we only have six verses we’re reading today.

Chris
Is that why? Yeah, we just traded Bible.

Jeff
So, so so we have to go back and remind our, our, our listeners that have been hanging on the edge of the cliff all weekend. Yeah, because we had a two part cliffhanger that now is coming to the third part. Yes. Where it actually may or may not happen.

Chris
Unless you’re binge listening. Yeah, yeah. In which it was two seconds ago.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. So so Jesus gets called by Mary and Martha. Do you remember this was this was, uh, on Thursday, um, uh, two episodes ago. Uh, Jesus gets called by Mary. Martha. Hey. Hurry up. You’re one of your best friends. Lazarus is dying, and Jesus waits several days and doesn’t go. And then he tells his disciples, don’t worry. Lazarus is dead. Uh, he’s he’s asleep. And they’re like, what? And then they go. And then Mary and Martha are like, Jesus, if only you’d been here, he wouldn’t have died, right? And then Jesus wept. Yes. So here we are. John 11, John chapter 11, verse 38 through 44. Jesus was still angry as he arrived at the tomb. A cave with a stone was rolled across its entrance. Roll the stone aside, Jesus told them. But Martha, the dead man’s sister, protested, Lord, he’s been dead for four days. The smell will be terrible. Jesus responded, didn’t I tell you that you would see God’s glory if you believe? And so they rolled the stone aside. And then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, father, thank you for hearing me. You always hear me, but I said it out loud, for the sake of all these people standing here so that they will believe you sent me. Then Jesus shouted, Lazarus, come out! And the dead man came out, his hands and feet bound in graves clothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, unwrap him and let him go.

Chris
Yeah. That’s great. And obviously this is the greatest miracle. Yeah, that Jesus has ever done. He obviously raised a girl from the dead. Yeah. Uh, you know, and she had just passed away. Right. Uh, this this man has been dead, wrapped up and buried. Yeah, yeah, for four days.

Jeff
So in the King James. So, you know, I grew up in the King James in the King James. She said, Lord, he stinketh he stinketh. It’s so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s that’s it, man. He stinketh. Yeah. Four days is long enough.

Chris
Yeah. And, uh, and so there’s, you know, you and I have taught this over the years and, uh, and it’s, it’s amazing to me how, uh, this is symbolic a lot of times for us. Right. So like, for instance, did you ever preach or teach where it says, like, the grave clothes represents, like our old ways, right. Yeah. Yeah, right. You know, we’re like, we’re we’re bound up. Yeah. We’re dead. We’re dead in sin. And then we’re alive in Christ. And so notice how, uh, the symbolism is, is that Jesus asks the people to help him. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so when you, when you first come to come to know Christ and you become alive in Christ, it’s best to have people help you, to be around you, to help you walk in this new life in Christ. And so and then also the it says, hey, take his grave clothes off. It’s shedding the old person. It’s taking off the old sins in our lives. The old habits, the old mindset. Right. And then and then we just. And then we come forth out of a dark place into the light. Yeah. Right. So, you know, a sealed tomb was very dark, right? And then can you imagine, you know, just being bound up in the dark for four.

Jeff
Dude comes out looking like a mummy, right? Right. How scary would that be? Because these people had only ever seen dead people wrapped up that way. Yeah. Dead not moving. Yeah, but, you know, you’re always afraid that that that body’s going to move. You know what I mean? Yeah. All of a sudden here he comes walking out.

Chris
You’ve seen it and you’ve seen the mummies in Egypt.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, he’s completely wrapped up like a mummy. And, uh, not that they mummified him, but he was wrapped up that way. His body was wrapped up.

Chris
He’s wrapped up.

Jeff
And, uh, again, King James says loose him and set him free. Right. And that’s, um, being set free is pretty amazing from these old grave clothes.

Chris
Did you ever hear that Jimmy Fallon song wrap me up?

Jeff
I don’t think so. Chris
No, okay. Hey, uh, by the way, uh, I saw a, uh. I promised this on Thursday.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, we. Yeah. This thing and I shut you down.

Chris
Yeah, well, because. Because we weren’t there yet.

Jeff
Yeah, because you were about ready to tip your hand. Because our listeners didn’t know. Was. What was Jesus going to do, right? Right, right. But now we know Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead.

Chris
So, John, Chris, famous comedian, he has this thing about Lazarus that’s so funny. He says, you know, he goes, it’s so funny that this story because like, Jesus comes out looking like the hero, you know, family’s family is sad now. Family’s happy again. We read it and say, oh, isn’t that wonderful? Wow. He goes, so yeah, he says, it’s all wonderful for everybody except for Lazarus. He says, Lazarus. He goes, read the story. He’s been dead four days and he’s in heaven. Yeah. He’s like sitting around his mansion, you know, decorating his mansion. He’s like, man, this is great. I used to have a bum knee, but now that’s all better, you know? And he’s shooting. He’s shooting basketball with Abraham, and he’s just up in heaven just thinking, this is wonderful. And four days goes by and all of a sudden there’s a knock and he’s. And he goes, uh, Lazarus. And he’s like, yeah. And he goes, uh, okay. Uh uh, we don’t normally do this. He goes, but, uh, yeah, I’m so sorry. We got to send you back to the Middle East where there’s no air conditioning. And I was like, what?

Jeff
Oh, no.

Chris
So he leaves Heaven and has to go back, right? Yeah so it’s hilarious to think about that perspective.

Jeff
But he’s he’s in Paradise.

Chris
Right? Right. Right back in. Right. Come on. Jesus. Right, right. Everything’s perfect. So?

Jeff
So the one that should have been mad was Lazarus, right?

Chris
Right.

Jeff
Because remember the last verse from Friday or from yesterday? Whatever he said. But some said, this man healed a blind man. Couldn’t he have kept Lazarus from dying? Hmm. Right. Hey, Jesus could have kept Lazarus from going to heaven. Yes, but instead he let him go. Let him taste. Yeah. And then yanked him back.

Chris
Which is worse.

Jeff
That’s way worse.

Chris
Yeah, so could you imagine? Can you imagine? Uh, you know, there’s everybody’s happy. Oh, the Lazarus is alive. They’re crying with joy. They unwrap him and he goes, come on. just like what did you do? I can’t believe I’m back. Yeah, Yeah. That’s hilarious.

Jeff
Uh. That’s funny.

Chris
Um, so, uh, later on, we see that obviously Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, right? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, and it’s not going to be very long before we have to start another series. Yeah, because we’ve been in this series where it covers the 250 events of Jesus, uh, both chronologically in order, and then also in parallel, which means, uh, you know, if more than one gospel records it, right? We we we look at all the Gospels. But lately, in the last few weeks, we’ve only sort of been in Luke, and then now we’re sort of only in John. John. Yeah.

Jeff
It’ll be gone for a while.

Chris
John and Luke, uh, record things that that are only in that version of the gospel. So this is, uh, so it’s important to know that that only John records the story of Lazarus. Yeah. Uh, which is weird.

Jeff
It seems like this is a big one. Matthew. Right. Seems like he would have written this one down, but he didn’t. Yeah, right. It’s just it’s what the Holy Spirit was trying to accomplish through each of the authors. Right. And John really highlighted the deity of Christ. Right. And so that was a big part of that. But anyways.

Chris
Yeah. And then later on, I’m not sure maybe you can answer this, but I don’t know this answer, but I but I know somewhere in the Gospels where it says that when they were in Jerusalem at the Passover feast, it said the crowds were great and many were there because they had heard about the miracle of Lazarus. Now, I’m certain that John says that. Yeah, maybe, uh, probably. That’s probable. Yeah. Uh, but I wonder if the other gospels mentioned that as well.

Jeff
We’ll find out.

Chris
We will find out. Don’t don’t don’t don’t.

Jeff
Yeah. There’s another cliffhanger.

Chris
Yeah. There it is.

Jeff
Yeah. So we’re getting better at these cliffhangers.

Chris
Tune in.

Jeff
Don’t miss it, man.

Chris
Yeah. I think that, um, uh, but all that to say, uh, Jesus is, uh, basically whole. It seems as if he’s holding nothing back at this point. Right? Right, right. He’s made claims to be the messiah. Uh, you know, he’s he’s he often says that he’s doing miracles for the purpose of showing that that he is the Messiah. So he’s going around and he’s and he’s healing. Remember when it says, uh, why was this man born blind? Yeah. Uh, you know, remember that one? Yep, yep. Uh, you know, was it because of his sins or his parents sins, which, by the way, both are really bad assumptions. Yeah, right. And then. And then, uh, Jesus says neither. It’s because he was born blind so that the Son of Man may be glorified. In other words, he was he was born blind, this particular man, for this particular moment. Right? In order to show that I am who I say I am. Right.

Jeff
And that was the same thing for this resurrection. Yeah. Moment where Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Right. He said that.

Chris
And, well, we know that because he stayed behind on purpose. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
And then he, he he told them, this is for the glory of the Son of Man. Yeah. So then I think it’s another callback. So that was one callback from the previous two episodes. But another callback was, uh, from exactly the previous episode. Where? It said that, uh uh, Jesus saw her weeping. He saw the other people wailing with her in a deep anger welled up within him. Remember that? He just got so mad. Yeah. And then, um, he weeps. John 1135 Then Jesus wept. And then the very first verse today, 38 says, Jesus was still angry as he arrived at the tomb. Right. And so dealing with that anger and trying to wrap our head around why, you know, why was Jesus angry? And, um, there’s a really great note here in the Life Application Study Bible and it says, uh, Jesus was angry when he approached the tomb of Lazarus. Why was he angry? And it says to. See also John 1133. Uh, there are two main possibilities. Jesus was angry that Mary and the others at the tomb were weeping and wailing excessively, uh, like those who have no hope for a future resurrection. In contrast to Martha’s response of faith or two, Jesus was angry about the power of sin and death in the world. The fact that Jesus wept himself and was still angry when he arrived. The tomb is a good indication that the second explanation is correct. Jesus was angry about the devastating effects of sin and death in the world, and he felt the loss keenly at the tomb of his friend Lazarus. This wasn’t the way God designed life to be, but we can find hope in the fact that that Christ has overcome death and live in the light of that.

Jeff
Right? So either he was mad at them for crying, right? Or he was mad at at at death itself. And I think that this is really important because sometimes when we’re grieving, we lose a loved one. Uh, something turns out differently than we thought it was going to turn out. We’re grieving sometimes. Um, I’ve had times when I felt like, you know, maybe. Maybe it was just a lack of faith that was making me grieve or whatever, uh, or, uh, and then maybe I’m displeasing God. And so sometimes I think some Christians just push grief down, try to hide it, try not to deal with it because they think it’s being a bad Christian to publicly or openly grieve. And if that was the case, then that’s why Jesus was mad, was because, hey, you don’t have any faith. But I don’t believe that was it. I don’t think Jesus. That’s why Jesus cried. Jesus cried over this. So Jesus grief demonstrates the fact that his anger was not at the fact that people were grieving. His anger was he hates sin and death that much. And this is, as far as we know, the first time one of his dear friends died.

Chris
Right?

Jeff
Right. So this is a very human response. It’s the only one recorded.

Chris
For sure.

Jeff
Yeah. So you don’t have to carry you know, I think you probably had Joseph probably has died as his stepdad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, because he doesn’t talk about mentioned, you know, through through the rest of the gospels after, uh, after Jesus was 12. Right? Right. Um, so.

Chris
And not like that. But then, you know, he he sort of assigns, uh, his mother to John. To John at the cross. Yeah. The cross. Yeah.

Jeff
So, so I think this is the first time that we see, at least in the Gospels, this is the first time that we see one of Jesus’s friends that died, and he’s overcome with grief. He cries, but he’s also angry. He hates what sin does. He hates death. It was never supposed to be this way. And you remember he’s the creator, right? So John one tells us in the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God, and nothing was created without the word. And we know in Genesis one it says, God spoke and everything came into existence. Right? And so Jesus is the creator, and he he knew that was never supposed to end in death. And I’ve been in funerals before and stand and look at the body. Not to be overly morbid, but people say, oh, they look so natural. And in my mind I’m like, they look dead, right? They don’t look natural, right? It’s a repulsive thing. And so lots of people won’t go up to the casket. Right? Lots of people or or it’s just a quick glance. And it’s because death is repulsive to us. Because deep inside of us, we know it was never supposed to end this way. I think that’s why Jesus was angry. So I love the emotion of this. But then Jesus doesn’t just stand around a wallow in his emotion. He does something about it.

Chris
Yeah, which is.

Jeff
He says Lazarus, come out.

Chris
Because he can.

Jeff
And which means he can do it in our life. So we’re the ones grieving Mary and Martha. We’re Mary and Martha and all the friends. We’re not Jesus, but he steps in and he solves the problem for them. And so, you know, I don’t know that I can expect that every friend that I lose will be raised from the dead in that moment. Right. But I do have confidence that we can grieve, but not as those who have no hope. We will see our friends again someday because Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

Chris
Yeah. That’s great. And by the way, when you made a comment earlier and said he’s either mad at the women for, for, uh, you know, being sad or grieving, uh, and some people might actually, it might trigger somebody. And I feel like I want to just wrap this up by saying, let’s come back to that for a minute, because people hear, well, Jesus can’t be mad at somebody. That’s sin, right? Uh, right. But it’s not, is it? No. So it actually talks about in the Bible that it is possible to be angry and not sin. Right. It’s just.

Jeff
Angry and sin not it says.

Chris
Yeah. Right. Right. And and there’s and there’s often times, uh, a few times where there’s a righteous indignation where, where Jesus himself is the holy side of Jesus is angry at sin. Right, right. And so we’re allowed to do that. Uh, the difference being when that anger leads to other things. Right? So we justify that sometimes and say, well, I’m allowed to be angry. And then we then we continue to treat people like a piece of garbage. Right? Right. Because look, Jesus was angry. That’s not what the Bible is talking about, right? He had a righteous indignation toward sin in this case. And had he had he been angry about their faith, that would have been justified. Reasonable, too. Yeah, but but but it wouldn’t have been. It wouldn’t have transferred into. Right. Uh, poor behavior. So. Well, hey, that’s that’s a great, uh, look at this, uh, wrapping up that story. And so we will pick up next time and see you then hopefully at The Bible Guys.