Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Hey, welcome to The Bible Guys, everyone.

Jeff:
Here we are, Chris.

Chris:
We are Chris and Jeff again.

Jeff:
It’s good to be back, buddy.

Chris:
If you’re following in real time, two weeks ago I was out, last week Jeff was out. We had a spattering of guests, really fun, kind of a little buffet of guests. Spattering. Yes. Sounds messy. Whenever you’re not here, Jeff, everything is messy. No, it was, it was great. It was a lot of fun, but I’m sure that people who enjoy us together, enjoy the fact that you’re now back way better and I’m back.

Jeff:
No, no. Our guests did a great job. So thank you.

Chris:
Thank you to all of them.

Jeff:
They did a fantastic job.

Chris:
Yeah. In fact, it was very fun. I just listened to myself and Quinn this morning. Oh, good. Yeah.

Jeff:
Well, I, uh, I missed it and, uh, I’m looking forward to being back in the studio with you, man. Getting this thing done.

Chris:
Yes. Knocking it out. Killing it. And today we are starting off with a riveting segment of dad joke competition.

Jeff:
Oh, I hadn’t even seen that yet. Dad jokes.

Chris:
Yes. You ever looked at it?

Jeff:
I haven’t looked at any single joke. Here we go. Okay.

Chris:
Okay. So you want me to start? Here we go. Sure. Okay. Hey, you hear that the Hulk has started recycling. No, he’s really going green.

Jeff:
Oh no.

Chris:
That’s terrible.

Jeff:
No, I’m not laughing at that one. I’m not laughing either. Here’s a good one. I recently took a poll and found that 100% of the people in the tent were angry when it collapsed.

Chris:
That’s a good one. I like that one. It’s just so random. It’s so random. Of course they were 80 when it collapsed. That’s so funny. And by the way, 10 collapsing is not fun, is it?

Jeff:
No, no, it’s not.

Chris:
Excuse me. It happened a few times. Number two. Here we go. Just reading that there’s a small island off the coast of Italy with 5 million Sicilian people. That’s the biggest number I’ve ever seen. What? Let me read it again.

Jeff:
Sicilian.

Chris:
Just reading that there’s a small island off the coast of Italy with 5 million Sicilian people.

Jeff:
5 million Sicilian.

Chris:
5 million Sicilian?

Jeff:
That’s the number. 5 million Sicilian.

Chris:
Oh, wow. That is… That was a rough one.

Jeff:
That was a rough one.

Chris:
Listen, I want to go on record and say that’s the roughest I’ve ever seen.

Jeff:
That’s the roughest one.

Chris:
Because you’re supposed to assume that million Sicilian is like a number.

Jeff:
Like a big number, million Sicilian.

Chris:
Oh my goodness, that is just… Is that more than a gajillion? She might have Googled the worst jokes ever. Oh no. Something.

Jeff:
Wow, that was terrible. This one says, once my dog ate all the Scrabble tiles and for days he kept leaving little messages around the house.

Chris:
That one’s good. That one’s good. I like that.

Jeff:
That’s a good one.

Chris:
I like that one. Okay. What do you call a woman who lives at the top of a church tower?

Jeff:
I don’t know. Belle. Oh yes. Okay. If I would have thought about that for half a second longer as it was coming out of your mouth, I thought Belle. Yeah. Okay. Let me see. Every morning after I get out of the house, a bike comes out of nowhere and runs me over. It’s a vicious cycle.

Chris:
It’s a vicious cycle. Okay. All right. Yeah, I get it.

Jeff:
Okay. Okay. I like vicious cycles. Vicious cycles. Good one.

Chris:
All right. How about this one? A lumberjack went into a magic forest to cut a tree upon arrival. He started to swing at the tree when it shouted, wait, I’m a talking tree. The lumberjack grinned and you will dialogue. Die a log.

Jeff:
Oh no. No. Nope. Yeah. Not laughing. Man, your whole set is rough today.

Chris:
Yeah, it’s really rough.

Jeff:
And you will die a log.

Chris:
Yes.

Jeff:
On a talking tree. You would die a log. Okay. It’s clever. It’s clever as you read it.

Chris:
It is clever, but is it possible to reach too far? Perhaps.

Jeff:
Yes. Yes. Today I learned that if you turn a canoe over, you can wear it as a hat because it’s capsized.

Chris:
That’s a clever one. I like that one.

Jeff:
So I got a tent one and a canoe one. This is right up my alley, man.

Chris:
Yes. Okay. Here we go. I took my dog to the lake yesterday and notice he floats very well. He’s a very good boy. Good boy. Oh my goodness gracious. He’s a good buoy. He’s a good buoy. That is so terrible.

Jeff:
I think I liked your reaction better than the joke. Okay. I accidentally drank a bottle of invisible ink. Now I’m in the hospital waiting to be seen. Oh no. Okay.

Chris:
Wow. That was really just a… I liked mine.

Jeff:
Four out of five were good.

Chris:
Yeah. I like three out of four for you for three out of five, three to five. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I liked zero out of zero for me or zero out of five. I should say I can’t get the numbers right. Okay. Oh, goodness gracious. Well, Hey, that is, uh, Maybe an appropriate way to kick us off today. I don’t know. Your back. I don’t know. And a big womp womps.

Jeff:
Yes. So if you’ve been following along, we’ve been in the book of Job, which is, you know, Job lived during the time of probably Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, right in that time. And he’s going through a rough time. And I think you guys already talked about his buddies, right?

Chris:
Yeah, yeah, we did last time. So we did four episodes of Job. This is, this will be our fifth episode.

Jeff:
Yeah. So his, his three buddies show up, you know, with friends like this, who needs enemies, quite honestly. They’re just kind of going after him. And in this chapter specifically, 19, he finally says, come on, you guys have busted my chops 10 times. You’ve really, you’re hurting my feelings. You’re making me mad. By the way, I feel like now I don’t feel like you’re helping. Because they start off, oh, we just want to help you figure out what’s happening, Job. And then by now, because they just keep hammering him and hammering him, if you look at the beginning of this chapter, he says, I don’t feel like you’re helping me now. I think you’re trying to just rub it in my face. And he says, if I’ve sinned, if this is me and God, then it’s none of your business. It’s between me and God. That’s what he says at the beginning. And then he kind of blames God. Have you ever been there? In verse 6 he says, it’s God who’s wronged me.

Chris:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. We were talking about that earlier, the fact that we went through all of Joseph and Joseph seems like he had like the perfect reactions. Right. And Job seems like he has the most unbelievable reactions, but then he finally, finally comes around and shows his humanity and his thoughts.

Jeff:
Well, he’s frustrated with God. Right. Right. But then he comes into, hey, but everything’s going to be okay. And then he’s frustrated again and everything. And I feel like that’s me a lot of times, up and down, up and down.

Chris:
Sure. I think that’s everybody, isn’t it? Yeah. Good days and bad?

Jeff:
Absolutely. So the context of this chapter is he feels like he’s getting roughed up by his friends again, and he’s telling them, I think I’m convinced that this is only between me and God, it’s none of your business. But we’re just going to read a few verses today, and these are unbelievable, considering, I believe, these would be the earliest written words within the Christian and the Jewish religious writings about eternity like this.

Chris:
Because Job was written before Genesis and chronologically.

Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, right. Job would have probably been the oldest book written in the Bible. So here’s what he says. We’re just going to read Job 19, 23 through 27, and it says, Oh, that my words could be recorded. Oh, that they could be inscribed on a monument, carved with an iron chisel and filled with lead, engraved forever in the rock. But as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives and He will stand upon the earth at last. And after my body is decayed, yet in my body, I will see God. I will see him for myself. Yes, I will see him with my own eyes, and I’m overwhelmed at the thought.” Right? And then he goes on and says, why do you guys keep persecuting me? So, right. But he has this pause. So early in the chapter, he says, hey, this is between me and God. Then he’s frustrated with them for busting his chops. And then he comes back and goes, you know what? As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives. I wish that all my complaints would be written in stone and, you know, hey, somebody needs to be keeping a record of this. As we sort this out, somebody needs to be keeping a record of it. But here’s what I know, no matter what, God’s good, whether I live or die, I’m going to see him someday physically.

Chris:
Yeah. And it’s really interesting. We didn’t read it, of course, but the very next verse says, how dare you go on persecuting me? Say it’s, it’s, it’s his own fault. You should fear punishment yourselves for your attitude deserves punishment.” So he goes back to, you know, just yelling at his friends. So really, this is this haven, right? It’s this isle of refuge in the middle of this conversation. And he’s like, hey, the one thing I know, just like you said, my Redeemer lives. And how could you not think of that song? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, and, you know, by the way, that was her only hit. Yeah. It was a great song. I think it was, My Redeemer Lives. It was a really great song. I listened to that and it still plays. I mean, what it was early nineties, maybe?

Jeff:
My daughter listens to it all the time.

Chris:
It’s one of her favorite songs. Yeah. And, uh, and, and everybody waits for the fade out. Is that Natalie Grant? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Right during the fade out of the song when she says, I spoke to him this morning. And everybody’s like, yeah, that’s right. I spoke to him this morning. He lives.

Jeff:
So if you don’t know that song, look up Natalie Grant and My Redeemer Lives. It’s great. Or Jason Crabb also did it. It was really good.

Chris:
Really? Yeah. I can’t imagine it being better than Natalie’s version.

Jeff:
Well, that’s good. So anyways, I think that there’s a lot in this really for a Christian in particular, the idea that, you know, like we started off as we were just getting into this, we started off saying it’s up and down, up and down, up and down. And even in this, he’s frustrated, he’s arguing with his buddies, and then he pauses and has this really brilliant moment of, everything’s going to be okay and God is my Redeemer, right? And then he goes back to arguing with them again. And this is most of the book of Job, by the way, most of the book of Job is him going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth on this. But let’s talk about this idea of, I know that my Redeemer lives. So the idea of a Redeemer And here’s a great note, by the way, we always love the Life Application Study Bibles. Here’s a great note that starts it off. So let’s start it this way. At the heart of the book of Job comes his ringing affirmation of confidence. I know that my Redeemer lives. In ancient Israel, a Redeemer was a family member who bought a slave’s way to freedom or who took care of a widow. And remember that happened with Ruth, Ruth and Boaz. What tremendous faith Job had, especially since he was unaware of the conference between God and Satan. Job thought that God had brought all these disasters upon him, and faced with death and decay, Job still expected to see God, and he expected to do so in his body. When the book of Job was written, Israel did not have a well-developed doctrine of the resurrection. Although Job struggled with the idea that God was presently against him, he firmly believed that in the end, God would be on his side. And this belief was so strong that Job became one of the first to talk about the resurrection of the body. Isn’t that amazing? Yes. So to think about, first of all, let’s just talk about the fact that he was not privy to this private conversation between God and Satan, and he still believed God was good.

Chris:
Right.

Jeff:
With all the bad things happening in his life.

Chris:
I mean, it just seems like moments after the tragedy struck when he shaved his head, and he said, you know, naked came out of my mother’s womb, naked I’ll return. And then he says, shall we not accept the bad along with the good? Who says that? Nobody says that. Exactly. Nobody. I’m talking literally not a person that I know, uh, you know, I mean, unless they’re modeling it after him, I mean, he’s, he’s the one who had the original thought. Yeah. Right. I know we could, we can say it because Job set the bar. Right. Right. But he, but man, I mean, just unbelievable.

Jeff:
That’s phenomenal to me. And I love his response and it kind of, you’re right, it does kind of prep us to think a different way. You know, every great idea is thought first by somebody, right? Somebody has this great idea and then suddenly we all begin to aspire to it or latch onto it and believe it. I think like Thomas Jefferson, not a perfect guy, but he’s the one who told us all men are created equal.

Chris:
Right.

Jeff:
And ever since prior to that being written, it was talked about, chitchatted a little bit, but not at the core of humanity believed. And then now of sudden, he writes it and America begins to go in that direction. We haven’t perfectly executed on that process, but we aspire to an idea because in 1776, some guy wrote it.

Chris:
Right. Well, it’s not very far off from Job’s original thoughts here when he said, oh, that my words would be recorded and that they would be inscribed on a monument carved with an iron chisel filled with lead. Hey, if you’ve ever walked around Washington, D.C., you see those words inscribed there.

Jeff:
That’s exactly what I was going for. That’s exactly it. You’re right. And so what happens is people have these big ideas and they’ll chisel this idea into humanity’s mind. And we think about those things and we aspire to them. And so when I read the book of Job, I’m inspired to face my trials like him. I’m also inspired by the fact that he was up and down, up and down, up and down, but he kept landing on the right solutions. Right? And he felt like he was blaming God through this whole book. He never understands what happens, never understood what happened through the whole book. He just felt like God was hurting him on purpose and he loved God anyways, and he trusted God anyways. But these phrases here just kind of make you think, man, I want to be that guy. I want to be a guy who just stands up, takes life as it comes, and says, God is still good.

Chris:
Yeah. Right. And it’s because of Job. So do you remember when we were young and this was, you know, we were in a… No, no, I don’t remember.

Jeff:
Nope.

Chris:
Uh-oh, he’s going to come up along now. So when we were young and just entering into ministry, you know, even before the internet, which is crazy to even say out loud.

Jeff:
It’s still clay tablets.

Chris:
Yeah, I know, right? Carrier pigeons. Well, sometimes we would buy books that were helps for sermons, and there was a book that I had in youth ministry, and it was a Like illustrations in a can, you know what I mean? In other words, they’re not our personal illustrations, they’re just these anonymous illustrations. And I remember one of them talked about a slave trader. Do you know this one? No. So just humor me for a minute here, because it was so powerful, like I cried every time I spoke it or read it. But basically, this guy is walking along and he comes across, you know, a slave trader who’s selling slaves publicly. And, you know, one by one, you know, they’re getting auctioned off. And then there was this little girl, you know, and she was, you know, just this timid little thing. uh, there was other men around them and they were bidding higher and higher. And then the illustration went on to say that these men were shouting, you know, obscene things and, you know, they, they really were fighting for her. And, and, you know, it was just really descriptive and you just sort of felt the, the, the evil in that moment. And so then, uh, this man, He had a bag of gold for his trip, and he decides, instead of going, in that moment he decides he’s not going to make the journey. He’s not going to make this trade. This would have been all the money that he would have had to prepare himself. But he decides in that moment to give up where he’s going and give up his entire livelihood, and he decides to bid in this entire bag of gold. And so then he wins her. And so then basically he grabs her and starts walking up and down the street. And she’s talking to him the whole time, yelling at him and saying, you’re disgusting. And I hate you and all these different things. And, but he didn’t say a word. And he’s just walking up and down the street and he’s looking in the windows of this town and come to find out he’s looking in, you know, looking for some clerical thing. And he goes inside and she waits outside and he comes back out and she spits in his face and says, I hate you. I will never serve you. And then he hands her a piece of paper and says, you’re free. And I get emotional talking about it just because I remember the story, but it’s also just the concept. And he says, you’re free. And he says, don’t you see you’re free? And she, she says, what trick is this? And she argues back and forth. And he said, no, no, you don’t understand. He goes, I bought you to set you free. And then, and then finally, when it finally all sank in, she said, are you serious? And he unchanged her and he says, go. And then she, she starts to leave. And then he starts to go back home because he had given up his, you know, all his livelihood. And then, uh, as he started going home, come to find out, she runs back. and falls at his feet and says, where you go, I will go. I will serve you the rest of my life because you bought me to set me free.

Jeff:
Wow. Well, that’s what Jesus did, right? That’s the whole role of a Redeemer. Man, I’m just a baby, buddy. No, no, that’s a great, great story. The role of a Redeemer was, there were two kinds of Redeemers. The one was for slaves, and oftentimes it would be a family member that would go and they would work through their life and then go buy a family member’s freedom. Slavery in that day was different. You know, in America and in the West, we had Chantel slavery, where people would go and they would own a person for life. Whereas in this time, much of the slavery in the Middle East was more debt owed or a crime being paid for, right? And there was a season, there was time, 10 years, 20 years or whatever, and then you were done, you served your term. But family members could buy you out of that. that debt or somebody else could. So always, they were almost always called kinsmen redeemers. The other one would be widows, right? So like in the book of Ruth, for instance, there was no safety mechanism. They didn’t have life insurance policies and, you know, all those kinds of things. And so family would have to care for family. The problem was a lot of times a woman would be married and then taken from her family in her village and would be far, far away. Her husband would die. She’s alone and has no way to make it home. And so sometimes a good, gracious family member, often a brother or an uncle or somebody would step in and purchase the right to care for that woman, right? That person. And so it would be a kinsman redeemer. And in this instance here, this is what he’s saying. And that man then would step in and say, I’m her provider and I’m her protector. So otherwise, there’s no other option. She’s going to be working the streets, right? If she wanted to stay alive. And so the man would step in. It would cost him money. He’d have to put up not quite what we would consider a dowry, but there would be this expectation, something very similar, which would then be her life insurance policy, right? To take care of her. And he would say, I’m going to protect her. I’m going to provide for her. And this is what he’s asking for. These friends are kind of bullying on him. And he said, man, I need God to step in and protect me. He’s the only one that can provide for me. And he’s the one that can protect me. This is my redeemer, the one who buys me. And then he says, and then I know this, whether I live or die, no matter what, I’m going to see God with these eyes and I’ll be with him. So while he didn’t understand what was happening in his life, and I think a lot of times things happen in our lives, we don’t understand them. We can’t have confidence like Job that God is good and we’re going to see him with our own eyes. And he ends it with, and I’m overwhelmed at the thought, just the idea of heaven. The idea that even though we’re sinners, you know, the book of Haggai has that same story, right? Haggai was a prophet. God tells Haggai, go marry this prostitute. Haggai goes, oh, I’m a man of God, I can’t. He says, nope, God says, go do it. So he does. And then she, after he marries her, she cleans up, she changes her lifestyle. And then after time, she goes back, starts working the streets. She runs away from him and he goes and gets her and brings her back and she leaves and she runs away again. And then one day he’s walking through the streets and he sees her being sold. And the Bible says he stepped up and bid on her and he bought her and then set her free from her slavery and brought her back into the home again, having completely forgiven her and giving her another chance. And this is the idea of that redeemer that he’s talking about here. And I think in the middle of all of his stress and all of his problems, this might be one of the most beautiful things he writes or says in all of this is he’s looking forward to the fact that God will provide. Jesus paid the price for you and me.

Chris:
Yeah, well that’s what’s so great about us living on the other side of the cross. We could look at a scripture like this and knowing that Job was looking forward to the cross, right? So this is, in the Bible it says, I know that my Redeemer lives, capital R. So, in either case, God absorbs or takes away our sin. But when we look at it, we know that Jesus Christ, the price that He paid for us, was that God loved us so much that He sent His only Son into the world, and Jesus died on a cross and paid the ultimate price for our sins. And so, we have a debt that we could not pay. And, and it’s literally impossible for us to pay it. And so we need someone to take care of that debt. And so that’s why when Jesus comes in and pays the price, you know, when I was at, when I was in the youth group, we, you know, like as a kid back then, we used to sing like little choruses. And then do you ever sing this one? He goes, he paid a debt. He did not. Oh, I owed a debt. I could not pay. I needed someone to wash my sins away. Okay. So anyway, so yeah, that’s what it is. So he’s capital R, Redeemer. And yeah, it’s a beautiful thing to know that, you know, in spite of all of these things, he has paid the price for us. So, you know, whenever we talk about fairness, you know, I love Andy Stanley, how he always says, I’ve heard him say it like three times at leadership conferences. He said, fairness ended in the garden. That’s right. Fairness ended in the garden of Eden. Fairness doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist. And God is always incredibly unfair to our favor. But when it comes to, you know, thinking about the hardships that we go through, you know, our lot in life, living under a broken and messed up world, you know, we try to say, oh, this isn’t fair. And look what they have. And why do I have to go through this? And again, those are legitimate feelings. Those are legitimate things, depending on what we’re, you know, upset about. We could always go back and say, but guess what? You get heaven, and Jesus paid the price for you. He died on the cross for you, because He loves you that much. I know that my Redeemer lives. We can always, always say that in the midst of any trial. That’s it. That’s the answer.

Jeff:
Turn to God, remember He lives.

Chris:
That’s right. Hey, well listen, that is our time. So hopefully we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.