Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Hello there.

Jeff
Hello there. Yeah. It’s so good that you’ve joined us again today.

Chris
Hey hello there. Jeff.

Jeff
Hi, Chris. So. Hey, man, we’re so glad that you’re back. Joining us today. He’s Chris and I’m Jeff. We’re the Bible guys. And we have a really interesting topic. And this is a kind of an amazing moment for the disciples and for Jesus. We’re talking about the transfiguration today. Yeah. And that’s going to be super cool. And in the meantime, we have an interesting segment here that Desiree gave us where we are supposed to pick out. It says, we know that Chris loves movies and Jeff loves to read. So let’s do a draft list of our favorite fictional characters.

Chris
Which, by the way, you still do watch movies. And I do still read. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, I don’t watch as many movies as you do, but yeah, yeah. And I don’t.

Chris
Read nearly as many books as you do.

Jeff
That’s a good one. Okay, so we’re supposed to do a rock, paper, scissors, and then we’re supposed to pick our favorite characters.

Chris
Sure. And there’s no rhyme or reason to this. No, no, not at all. It’s just it’s just it’s just five fictional characters that we.

Jeff
So are you supposed to be picking five favorite movie characters? And I’m supposed to be picking five favorite book characters.

Chris
I think that’s what she’s. Is that what she’s.

Jeff
Trying to do here?

Chris
I think so.

Jeff
Okay.

Chris
So yeah, you got to go for books. I got to go for movies.

Jeff
That makes it way harder.

Chris
Yeah, well, I’ll go first then.

Jeff
Okay. You do.

Chris
It. Okay? Okay. Uh, have you ever seen the movies, Jack Reacher? Yes. Okay, so there’s the movie with Tom cruise. Uh huh, uh huh. But then there’s also, um, the series of Jack Reacher on on Amazon. The series was amazing. Did you like it? That dude, that dude was a beast, and he was so cool. Everything he did was so cool. And I just I would love to just hang around him and be his sidekick, Jack Reacher, just to make myself feel cool.

Jeff
Yeah. So that’s a little bit because that’s also from a book series too.

Chris
Oh yeah. Book into the movie.

Jeff
Oh, Clancy, a little.

Chris
Crossover idea.

Jeff
Right? Okay, that’s a good one. All right. I think my first character, fictional character I would like to be around or hang out with or meet would be Gandalf.

Chris
Okay. All right.

Jeff
All right. Yeah. From from the Lord of the rings, the Hobbit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s just a unique character. Yeah.

Chris
That’s great. So then I’m going to go back to. Because by the way, Gandalf is also a book in a movie. Yeah. So I’m going to go for just straight movie. And I’m going to say out of all of my favorite characters in the entire Star Wars franchise, none is more awesome in epic than Obi-Wan Kenobi. So I would love to be mentored by hang out with Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Jeff
Yeah, Obi-Wan Kenobi is in a lot of books in.

Chris
In his prime. Yeah, of course. But, you know, started out as a movie. Okay. It went from a script to a movie. Yeah. There you.

Jeff
Go. Okay, so Obi-Wan Kenobi, that’s a great choice, by the way. That’d be a cool one to hang out with. I think for me, Butch Cassidy.

Chris
Oh, Butch.

Jeff
Cassidy, so there’s a movie, but they start off as books too, so.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. And the.

Jeff
Sundance Kid. Yeah, yeah, that’d be cool. Which, by the way, Butch Cassidy was a real guy, so that’s. Yeah, but I’m talking about the movie fictional story side of it.

Chris
Yeah. So.

Jeff
Yeah. So Butch Cassidy probably died in South America. So all that stuff’s legit. Yes. But the fictionalized Western cowboy gun gunfighter guy. Yeah.

Chris
So I’ve always said that my very favorite movie in all the world, you know? You know what it is?

Jeff
Your favorite movie? Yeah.

Chris
Number one. Top favorite movie? No. Do you know it? I don’t think so. It’s The Count of Monte Cristo.

Jeff
Oh, yes, I knew that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jim Caviezel.

Chris
Yes, yes. I’m pretty certain I have about 5 or 6 other movies that tie for the second place among them by far. It’s not even close leap years above every other movie. The matrix number one. Right. So when it came out, it was literally mind blowing to me. Just incredible. The idea to think the concept, to think that we could be in the matrix right now. Right. We’re in some pods, all those kind of things. Right? So my fictional character would be Neil Neo, who walks in through this podcast studio flexes and the whole room goes boom, right. And then you realize we’re in the matrix, right? Yep. That’s what I’d like to do.

Jeff
Okay, my next one, I think I would like to meet Captain Nemo from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Yeah, sure.

Chris
Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
That’s such a unique, oddball kind of a character with who knows where all of his money came from and his technology came from. And he just living this crazy life. Yeah, that’d be fun.

Chris
So I know that there’s a lot of superhero talk out there, but I’m going to have to at least dip into the superhero franchise at least once. And I’m going to actually say, I know my favorite superhero, Spider-Man, but I’m going to go with Iron Man, and I’m going to go with specifically Tony Stark’s fictional Iron Man. Just because.

Jeff
Everybody needs a billionaire friend.

Chris
Everybody needs a billionaire friend. And he’s always evolving, right? Like, like, did you like, you know, one of the coolest things about Iron Man movies is when he discovers a problem, the next movie, they don’t even announce it, but. But he sort of fixes it with his next suit. Yeah, right. Which is.

Jeff
Really cool. Right, right. That’s a good one for me. So I’m going to choose. It’s a movie. But it was also a book.

Chris
This is the last one, isn’t it?

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, captain Jack Sparrow.

Chris
Oh for sure sure. Yeah, yeah. That was a book before. It was a movie.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that he’d be a he’s a pretty crazy character, especially maybe there’s no movie ever that has a better opening than him standing at the top of the beam, looking out like that. And then you don’t realize it until the very end that his boat is sinking as he steps off the top of the thing.

Chris
And it’s perfect. And it’s perfect.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. That’s great.

Chris
That’s awesome. So cool. I think we’re done. Okay. All right. Well, that was great.

Jeff
Tons of fun.

Chris
Yeah. So we’re going to dive straight into the Transfiguration, which, by the way, is something that is not really taught a lot. Yeah. Like you don’t really hear too many sermons on the Transfiguration. Yeah. Now I’ve heard it referenced, right. Yeah. Like, especially when they’re talking about Peter, James and John and things like that. But I but I, but I don’t really hear a lot of sermons based off of this event. Yeah.

Jeff
This may be so up to this point, Peter, James and John had seen some pretty amazing things.

Chris
Oh for sure.

Jeff
But for those three guys who wind up being three of the key players in the early church, on a level that none of the other apostles even approached other than Paul. Is. This is a pivotal moment. It is such a it had to have been mind blowing up to this point. They’re thinking, wow, this Jesus guy is really special. We’re pretty sure he’s the Messiah. And walking down off this mountain, they were like, what?

Chris
Right, right. Walk up this mountain. They’re like. And that settles that.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I didn’t even realize what we were talking about. They were they weren’t even on they leveled up at this moment. Right. Right right right. Yeah.

Chris
So well you know, I mean, at Jesus baptism, they heard the voice of God from heaven. Yeah. So it’s like, this is my son, whom I’m well pleased. It’s like it’s like, but but it is different. What they see, hear what they experience is a whole different deal. Well, it’s.

Jeff
Clear they can’t even really process what’s what’s happening. Right. So anyways, here you go with that introduction Matthew chapter 17 verses verses one through 13, say six days later is very specific. Six days later, Jesus took Peter and the two brothers, James and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched Jesus appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as light. Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus. Peter exclaimed, Lord, it’s wonderful for us to be here. If you want, I’ll make three shelters as memorials, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. But even as he spoke, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, this is my dearly loved son, who brings me great joy. Listen to him. The disciples were terrified and fell face down on the ground. Then Jesus came over and touched them. Get up, he said, don’t be afraid. And when they looked up, Moses and Elijah were gone, and they saw only Jesus as they went down back down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, don’t tell anyone what you’ve seen until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead. Then his disciples asked him, why do the teachers of religious law insist that Elijah must return before the Messiah comes? Jesus replied, Elijah is indeed coming first to get everything ready. But I tell you, Elijah has already come. But he wasn’t recognized and they chose to abuse him. And in the same way, they will also make the Son of Man suffer. And then the disciples realize he was talking about John the Baptist, which is I don’t know that I put that together until it said they realized it was John the Baptist. Jeff
Yeah. So then Mark says very specifically, six days later, Jesus took Peter, James and John and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched, Jesus appearance was transformed and his clothes became dazzling white, far whiter than any earthly bleach could ever make them. Then Elijah and Moses appeared and began talking with Jesus. Peter exclaimed, Rabbi, it’s wonderful for us to be here. Let’s make three shelters as memorials, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. He said this because he didn’t really know what else to say. They were all terrified. I don’t just say, I just need to say something.

Chris
I’m just talking. I don’t know why I said that.

Jeff
I think the Bible is so funny sometimes because it’s such an incidental passing statement. He said it because he really didn’t.

Chris
Know what to say. He didn’t know what to say at that moment.

Jeff
He had to say something though, right then a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, this is my dearly loved son. Listen to him. Suddenly when they looked around, Moses and Elijah were gone, and they suddenly Jesus with them. As they went back down the mountain, he told them not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. So they kept it to themselves. But they often asked each other what he meant by rising from the dead. Then they asked him, why do the teachers of religious law insist that Elijah must return before Moses comes, Messiah comes. Jesus responded, Elijah is indeed coming first to get everything ready. Yet why do the scriptures say that the Son of Man must suffer greatly and be treated with utter contempt? But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they chose to abuse him, just as the scriptures predicted. So he does not say this. John the Baptist, right? And then Luke chapter nine says, about eight days later, Jesus took Peter, John and James up on a mountain.

Chris
To be fair, he did say about about.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, roughly. The other one said six days specifically. Yes. He’s about eight days later. And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was transformed and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared and began talking with Jesus. They were glorious to see, and they were speaking about his exodus from this world, which was about to be fulfilled in Jerusalem. Peter and the others had fallen asleep, and when they woke up, they saw Jesus glory, and the two men standing with him. As Moses and Elijah were starting to leave, Peter, not even knowing what he was saying, blurted out, master, it’s wonderful for us to be here. Let’s make three shelters as memorials, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. But even as he was saying this, a cloud overshadowed them, and terror gripped them as the cloud covered them. Then a voice from the cloud said, this is my son, the chosen one. Listen to him. When the voice finished, Jesus was there alone. They didn’t tell anyone at that time what they had seen.

Chris
Hey, by the way, I wonder if because the different gospels are recorded by different events, like, not every event is recorded in every gospel, right? That’s right. So I wonder if Luke was saying about eight days later from a different type of event.

Jeff
Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Chris
Yeah, it doesn’t matter.

Jeff
Let’s see. It doesn’t matter. No. That’s a great one to point out.

Chris
We don’t have to research it. I’m just saying it allows for the different verbiage. Right. Um, so the you know, what’s so incredible about this is that, number one, the Bible tells us that that Elijah did come back as predicted in the scriptures, by the way, in the form of John the Baptist. And so John the Baptist was sort of like a person who came in the spirit of Elijah. Now he’s not talking about reincarnation, right? Right. So reincarnation is the belief that, you know, that your very soul comes back and you’re just, you know, come back as somebody else. But but actually, he’s referring to in the spirit and the power of Elijah. Right? Right, right. Yeah. Right. So because John the Baptist is John the Baptist. That’s right. Um, but at the same time, think about all the different things that Jesus had said before this. So think about it. So when he says things about like twigs and branches and olive branches and, and, you know, sheep and gates and rocks, everybody’s going, I wonder what he means, right? So they spend so much time thinking about I wonder what he really means. Right? So when Jesus says, I’m going to die and don’t tell anybody until the Son of Man has risen, three days later they’re going. Now I wonder what he really, really means. Yeah. And Jesus is Jesus is like, no, this one’s literal. Yeah, yeah, I’m talking literally. I’m literally going to be raised three days later. And but but I understand why, you know, with all the metaphors and all the symbolism. Right. You know, is he really, truly talking about his body? Right. You know, I mean, I would I would totally understand why they would be confused, although it seems pretty plain to us because we’re looking back on history. Chris
Right, right. Yeah.

Jeff
So these three see the transfigured body of Jesus, which, by the way, glowing whiter than white.

Chris
Yeah, right. Is light and brighter than any bleach can make it. Yeah, yeah. Right in his face. Shone like the sun. Hello. Yeah. Can you have you ever tried to look at the sun?

Jeff
No, I try not to.

Chris
But you look up. Oh right.

Jeff
But the. You ever see like the three M reflective tape. Yeah. That reflects it. Like I saw a jogger one time and almost his entire top was all that reflective stuff, and he lit up so bright it looked angelic as he’s running down. It was in the middle of the night, you know, my lights hit him and there’s no missing him. Right. And that’s kind of what I think, because they’re sleeping. It says they were asleep, so only one of them was it. Luke tells us that they were sleeping and they wake up. And here’s Jesus just glowing, hanging out with Moses and Elijah. They immediately recognize who Moses and Elijah are. Yeah, which is phenomenal. There were no photos and no paintings of them. So they they they immediately recognize who these guys are. They have this supernatural awareness of what’s happening. Peter doesn’t know what to say, so he just blurts out, hey, let’s, let’s, let’s build a couple little churches for you guys, right? That’s what that’s what he’s talking about.

Chris
And and Moses is really recognizable. Charlton Heston has a really distinct look. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, especially that curly beard. Yeah, that’s really funny. I’m pretty sure that was that was later.

Chris
Oh I see, I see.

Jeff
And then Jesus tells them, you know, don’t, don’t say anything to anybody. So they they talk about it clearly amongst each other is what the one Luke says. They talk about among the three of them, but they don’t say anything. One everybody else would have thought they were nuts, right? But this is kind of a hint that the only reason why you should talk about this is because of the resurrection. So if the resurrection happens, go ahead and talk about this too. Yeah. Because people would have gone, well, what now?

Chris
Have you ever asked yourself this? What was the purpose of the transfiguration? Like, did Jesus need to just like, you know, you remember how you know, if you jump in a swimming pool, you get cooled off and you’re like, no, I needed that. Yeah. It’s like, oh, I just needed to be, you know, transfigured into my former glory. Just for a minute. You know, that felt so refreshing. Yeah. Or is he is he like, hey, Moses. Elijah. What’s happening? Yeah. You know, like like like, what was the purpose of that? You know? Hey, listen, we had sorry, guys. Didn’t mean to wake you, but we had to have this meeting. Yeah. There was there was an executive meeting. I had a zoom call. Right.

Jeff
Some of the other translations say that Moses and Elijah came and ministered to Jesus. So that’s interesting. I don’t know what that means.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. Well, either way, obviously it is. It is definitely a physical and literal interaction between Moses, Elijah and Jesus, which, by the way, is further supports the idea that if they’re recognizable, that that that they have, you know, like we have bodies in heaven that will be distinguishable. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
You’ll recognize your loved ones in heaven.

Chris
Yeah. Recognizing the loved ones in heaven. So still still maintaining identities. You know, we’re not like, you know, floating clouds or surface energy. Yeah. Right. Right. And what must what must it what must it have been? What? What must. What would it have been like if, if you’re in heaven and all of a sudden you get transported to earth? Oh, yeah. That’s crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff
Right. Other than the fact that they they were on a mission, I believe, to minister to Jesus, right. Like like the angels would do. So I think that.

Chris
But must have.

Jeff
Been. Must what must it have been like. Yeah. Yeah. That’s appropriate. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, there’s a lot of times where the Bible says it was Jesus custom to go up in the mountains to pray alone. Right. So I don’t know that I believe that this is the only time. Right that this happened because so much the Bible says that when people would touch him, he would feel his energy leave him. Right. He’d feel this power. Leave, I think so you find him many times going alone, and he sends the disciples across the lake or whatever, and he goes up into the mountains, or he goes out into the desert to pray, and he’s alone. And then angels would come and minister to him. The Bible says.

Chris
Oh, yeah, and the wilderness. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
When he was in the wilderness. And so I think that this may have been a. Survival mechanism isn’t the right word, but I think you know what I’m saying, that he would dip his finger back into eternity for a minute just to kind of go, okay, you know, this mission I’m on is worth it.

Chris
I’m not certain that I’ve ever had that thought before. What you just said, which is perhaps this isn’t the first time this has happened because he would go up and pray alone. Yeah, but.

Jeff
This is the first time he took three witnesses with.

Chris
Him. Right? But that’s the first time I’ve ever had that thought, so. Wow, that’s that’s pretty crazy, right?

Jeff
So if that’s the case. I feel like there’s some some of it. He’s getting ready to go. On the worst moment any human could go into. Sure. Right. He’s. He’s heading towards Jerusalem, and he knows what’s coming. Right. And so I think that there is this. Right. Moses represents the law. Elijah represents the prophet. So all of the word of God up to that point. And then he is the word. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God, and the word was God. So he is the word. He’s. He’s fellowshipping in eternity in this, in this powerful moment that really only makes sense to him. And he said, don’t talk about that. But he takes three. And I think he took all three, because when he was done with the worst moment in his life, the worst moment in the existence. Of our creator, right in all of his existence, in the eternal existence. This is the worst moment. It’s coming, it’s coming. The Bible says he became sin for us, who knew no sin, right? That we might have the righteousness of God through him. So when his worst moment was done, he would defeat sin and death and hell and the grave. He’d rise again. That’s over now. Everything’s a free gift. But then these three guys and the others are going to begin some of the worst moments in their lives, right? It’s going to be very, very difficult. And so I think that’s why he told them to. Hang on. Don’t don’t go bragging about this right now. You remember Joseph. Joseph’s dad gives him a coat of many colors, and he’s just showing everybody. And then he goes out and he says, hey, God gave me a vision and I’m going to rule over you guys someday. Jeff
And they wanted to kill him, right? Right. And so I think he’s telling these three, listen, you had an extraordinary experience. Don’t talk about it until you see the proof of the resurrection. Then everybody’s going to need to know. And that’s why he didn’t really take Peter. He took three. The word of 2 or 3 witnesses. Right. He takes three to go. We saw it, guys, if you just would have seen it. So this resurrection, they didn’t even understand the resurrection was coming. Peter and John were confused, but they are the first two who leave the rest. Everybody else is hiding for their life and they leave and they go to sea as the resurrection. Really real, right? So they’re not sure they believed it was going to happen then when it did, I think that this is what God was doing was he is allowing them to be witnesses of Jesus touching eternity for a moment so that when the difficulties come in their life later, they’re like, there’s nothing can shake me off of this.

Chris
Yeah, well, the the symbolism of a of Elijah and Moses, we have to remember as well that that everything that Jesus said, like even yesterday on yesterday’s podcast, when he was telling, he began to tell everybody that he was going to die. We had sort of talked about how people in the crowd were probably connecting the prophet Daniel. Right. And they’re connecting the dots. Well, the entire Old Testament is a big jigsaw puzzle. And Jesus is the picture, right? Right, right, right. And so that’s a great illustration. Right. And so it’s, it’s it’s all these pieces that, that come together that point to Jesus. And so it really, truly is symbolic for Moses to be there, who again, all the commandments of the law, which, by the way, we’re we’re remember what God said, God said all the commandments of the law of Moses weren’t given to us to prove to us that we can attain them. Right? But they were proven to us to show us our need for Jesus. Right? In this case, in our case, right. Our need for God that we cannot complete them. So. So Jesus is the fulfillment of every law of Moses, right? And then every prophet, every prophet that that tried to guide Israel, the nation of Israel along the way. And not only that, but Elijah, sort of known as the as the one who has the power. Right? So he’s he’s he’s the he’s the mightiest of all the prophets. Right? So, so just symbolically, we have both the, the power and we have the fulfillment of the law, which is, you know, the jigsaw piece of the entire Old Testament and then Jesus, the fulfillment of all of it. Yeah. So the symbolism of the.

Jeff
Voice of God saying, this is the one, right? Listen to him, the.

Chris
Chosen one, right.

Jeff
The one that Moses talked about, the one that the prophets talked about. Right. That’s him and all of his glory. And then God says, listen to him, right?

Chris
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so and so think about the symbolism there. And so, so it’s it’s about, you know, this happens by no accident right before Jesus is about to enter into the Passion Week. Right. And so it’s just it’s just a beautiful thing. It’s incredible. We should probably do a series on that. Now that I’ve talked, I’ve convinced myself that this doesn’t get talked about enough. Yeah, yeah. Let’s do it. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Transfigured the transfigured. Christ man. That’s amazing. So so this power I find myself sometimes asking God, just give me a glimpse, you know? And what I’m not asking for necessarily is to see Jesus glowing over in the corner. But I want to have moments like this. Sometimes when we’re going through difficult times, I just need to know for sure God is with me, right? Or God is with us in this difficult time. And he does. He shows up in ways where it’s just unmistakable. I was just telling you about. I’m working on a hard project in the Middle East, and I was talking about different people that I feel like I need to be allies with. And while I was standing in the airport in Erbil, Iraq, a guy I prayed for in the morning calls out to me and says, yeah, Pastor Jeff.

Chris
Right.

Jeff
And I turn around and I went. I felt like that was one of those guys because I’m like, God, just just give me clarity of what I’m supposed to do next. And I really feel like I need some help. I’d love to have these couple people help me. And one of those guys that I haven’t seen in months runs into me in the airport, in Erbil, in Iraq. Yeah, yeah. And so sometimes, God. So I don’t feel like I saw a glowing Jesus over in the corner. But I believe that God confirmed the fact that he’s moving forward in this and that, and that he’s with me by bringing this guy along that I was praying for. And I think that that’s a fair thing, right? Is, is is part of the reason why he took Peter, James and John up was to let them know without any doubt that as they go forward in moving God’s kingdom forward, if facing any problem, they. Remember the moment they saw Jesus as the fulfillment of the prophets and the law, and hearing God say he is the Messiah. Listen to him. Well.

Chris
That’s our time and that’s a great place to end. So we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.