Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff
Welcome back. Here’s Chris I’m Jeff, we’re the Bible guys. And we are thrilled that you decided to join us today. We’re going to lean in to a passage in the book of John, chapter six, where people disagree that Jesus is even from heaven. Yeah.

Chris
Where did this guy come from?

Jeff
Not from heaven. That’s what they thought. That’s what they thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but before we do that, I thought we would do a who’s most likely. Oh yeah.

Chris
Yeah yeah yeah. Is it you or most likely it’s fun.

Jeff
We don’t have our little picture paddles though.

Chris
Oh yeah.

Jeff
I don’t have those.

Chris
That’s all right. We’ll just do it for the for the people listening. Raise your hand. We’ll just declare it pretty faces.

Jeff
Okay? The first one is who’s most likely to pass out on a roller coaster or sling shot.

Chris
I would immediately say me.

Jeff
Is it you?

Chris
Yeah. Well, because I get motion sickness. Yeah, yeah, yeah a lot. Oh that’s right.

Jeff
I’ve been with you before.

Chris
Yeah, yeah. And a slingshot. See, I wouldn’t pass out for any other reason. Not not being scared because I could handle those things. It would terrify me. Right. But, like, I would never do it because of being scared. I would pass out only if for some reason, it was motion sickness. Yeah. Hey, by the way, so my future son in law, who’s dating Tori for the last five years, he’s now an instructor as a pilot. Oh, yeah. So he’s telling. And Tori flies with him so often that that he’s telling her. I’ll just get you your pilot’s license because I’m an instructor. So yesterday, for the very first time, he let Tori take the plane. Oh, yeah. And they flew up and Tori literally took off. Yeah. And he’s like, okay. He’s like, you’re playing my plane. You’re playing. And then. And then all of a sudden he’s like, turn! What she said was when he when he bears right or bears whatever. It’s like so smooth. But this is her first time. So she went and buried. Right. Whom. And she’s like, she’s like going into down spins and everything like this. Right. Yeah. Well immediately she throws up in the barf bag. Oh my goodness. Because she’s like me. She gets motion sickness. She made herself motion sickness. She gave herself motion sickness because she couldn’t handle the plane.

Jeff
That’s crazy. Have you ever flown a plane?

Chris
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. Me flown it. Yeah, yeah I’ve flown in one.

Jeff
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I flew a.

Chris
Plane a little too. Passenger plane. Yeah yeah yeah.

Jeff
Sitting shoulder to shoulder. And I had a hard time keeping it going straight. I kept flying sideways and stuff. It was really. It’s hard. It’s a real skill. It’s good. Okay. Who’s most likely to make the best tour guide? Oh, me. Me, I’m the best.

Chris
There’s no question.

Jeff
I read all the stuff. I know all the places.

Chris
Yeah, dude. It’s like. It’s like, look to your left. Right over there. Night and day. Number one, you know everything. Number two, you know every map, like three seconds after you look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And you retain information.

Jeff
Who’s most likely to have blown bubbles most recently.

Chris
Me.

Jeff
Really? When did you blow bubbles?

Chris
Uh, seven days ago. Okay. Not me.

Jeff
I was going to say maybe a month and a half ago. We had bubbles out in the back patio, and I was blowing with my grandson.

Chris
Oh, yeah, the.

Jeff
Excuse, it was with my grandson.

Chris
So what’s your excuse for.

Jeff
Sitting and blowing bubbles?

Chris
Yeah. So I was cleaning my garage and I came across things that I’m considering. Should I throw this away or not? And I thought, wow, this bubble thing is really old. I wonder if it still blows. Okay. So, okay, I realized I should keep this.

Jeff
Just a 52 year old guy standing in the backyard blowing bubbles. No, in my garage. In your garage? Okay, okay.

Chris
Blowing bubbles.

Jeff
That’s awesome.

Chris
That’s really funny. Yeah.

Jeff
You’re the winner on that one, then. Who’s most likely to be best? Be the best at speaking in different accents. You. Me? You think it’s going to be you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard you try accents before.

Chris
Yeah, yeah. Welcome to the podcast. Can I help you, please?

Jeff
You got that Mafia accent?

Chris
I’ve never been good at good at accents, but, yeah, maybe. Maybe a few accents are fun. I think if I worked at it, I’d be good. The problem is, I don’t really. My mind doesn’t say this is an Irish accent. This is a Scottish accent. Like, it just doesn’t do that.

Jeff
Okay, but it’s definitely you.

Chris
Okay.

Jeff
Who’s most likely to have a pair of nunchucks at home?

Chris
You. It’s definitely me.

Jeff
I don’t have a.

Chris
I have not had nunchucks. Nunchucks in a very long time. But growing up, you had.

Jeff
Did you have them? No. Oh, I had throwing stars. I didn’t have nunchucks, man.

Chris
I bet you I’ve had without exaggeration. I’m seriously going to give you a number here. Yeah? Yeah. 3030 pairs of nunchucks. I love the fact.

Jeff
You call them nunchucks too. That’s even better.

Chris
They’re nunchucks. They’re nunchucks. Hey, I will say this. Were you cool?

Jeff
Were you cool with them?

Chris
No. No, no.

Jeff
Like karate.

Chris
Kid. I could do them right now. I bet you could. I actually, no, I still remember the moves. But. But I’ll tell you this. Uh, my Uncle Danny was was really good, and he said, watch this. And so we all sat in the porch and he was going, man, I’m talking like lightning speed. He hits himself in the head, right? And he just falls over and knocks himself out in front of everybody. Yeah.

Jeff
He literally that’s why they’re called numb chucks now. Numb chucks.

Chris
He legitimately knocked himself out. It would have.

Jeff
Been awesome if his name was Uncle Charlie. Right. Numb. Chuck.

Chris
Oh, numb. Chuck. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, that would have been great. Well, my.

Chris
Brother’s name is Chuck, but he’s not the one that got knocked out.

Jeff
Didn’t knock him out. Well that’s awesome dude. So that’s super exciting. You got like, four out of five there. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, you totally stole my my bubbles thing.

Chris
Well, you know what? When you said a month and a half ago, I was shocked until you said grandkid. And I was like, oh, that’s why. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Jeff
Okay. You were shocked that I blew bubbles a month and a half ago. And. But you did bubbles seven days ago.

Chris
Okay, look at my personality. Look at my personality. There’s not a soul who knows me. That would be surprised.

Jeff
Bubbles. Bubbles. Bubbles. Like. Like like in Finding Nemo. Bubbles. Bubbles. Bubbles.

Chris
When the little treasure thing goes up.

Chris
Yep. Oh, that’s so funny.

Jeff
Okay, anyways, we should move on.

Chris
John six, verse number 41, verse 41.

Jeff
We’re going to just read 41 through 59. And the people are really, really disagreeing that Jesus is from heaven. Right? And, you know, we didn’t even mention this yesterday’s podcast, but these people just ate 20,000 people, ate a sack lunch, and it fed everybody. Yeah. And then they’re like, who are you? Moses can do those same miracles, right? So they see these incredible miracles and then they don’t care, right? They are just like, teach us how to do these tricks. When he challenges them spiritually, then they begin to reject him, which is just really astounding. So it goes. Then the people began to murmur and disagreement because he said, I’m the bread that came down from heaven. Right. And they said, isn’t this Jesus, the son of Joseph? We know his father and mother. How can he say, I came down from heaven? But Jesus replied, stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up as it is written in the scriptures. They will all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to the father and learns from him comes to me. Not that anyone has ever seen the father. Only I who was sent from from God have seen him. I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life. Yes, I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate manna in the wilderness, but they all died. Anyone who eats the bread from heaven. However, will never die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever. And this bread which I will offer. So. Which I will offer. Jeff
So the world may live is my flesh. Then the people began arguing with each other about what he meant. How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They asked. So Jesus said again, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. And I will raise that person at the last day. For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. I live because of the living father who sent me. In the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did, even though they ate the manna, but will live forever. And he said these things while he was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Yeah, well, you’ve been in synagogue in Capernaum, I have.

Chris
Yeah. So it’s incredible. Yeah. By the way, you know, yesterday’s podcast we talked about communion. Yes. And and this, this whole passage almost seems like on the surface it flies right in the face of what we talked about.

Jeff
Yeah, well, we got to unpack it.

Chris
Yeah, we got to unpack it for sure. But. But anyway. Yes, Capernaum, a small a smaller city back in that day on the northern. What is it? Northwestern side, sort of. It’s almost the northern side, but it’s a little bit toward the west of of the Sea of Galilee on the shore. And there is a really cool space where where the temple was in Capernaum. Synagogue. The synagogue. Yeah. I always say temple when I mean synagogue. Yes. And and there’s a sign that that says the synagogue, you know, in the first century. And do you remember the layers of stone? Yeah, yeah. So it was actually the dark layers, which was actually like local in Capernaum. Yeah. It was a.

Jeff
Volcanic more, more of a volcanic basalt rock.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. And that was the foundation that they laid. And then which would have been.

Jeff
The level Jesus was at. Yeah. Because all the buildings were like black where Jesus was.

Chris
And then and then later on. I forget what the what it said like four BC or four AD or 44 AD, I don’t know.

Jeff
Yeah. No, it was like in the first century or two.

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. Well what they did century, what they did was they, they built upon it, they built upon the foundation and they brought in like marble. Yeah. Like it was like marble. Yeah.

Jeff
Limestone. Maybe it was kind of like a limestone. It was light colored.

Chris
Yeah. And then. And then on top of that. And the cool part was, is that so you can saw sort of where it was remade. But then there were still standing like pillars weren’t there. Yeah, yeah. There were pillars with architectural designs and, and almost like, like half of the synagogue was sort of maybe not half, but it was still standing. Yeah.

Jeff
Well the Life Application Study Bible has a photo in it of it right there in front of you.

Chris
Yeah, it’s really, really cool.

Jeff
And you should get a life application study Bible. We don’t get paid for promoting those, but they’re fantastic. And it’s got pictures of the four walls that are still standing. The roof’s not there. So it was a famous Roman family.

Chris
Yeah, that’s so funny. I was describing it. It was right in front of.

Jeff
It’s right in front of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the family. They contributed to have this built and they brought all that in afterwards. But the one that Jesus would have taught in was right below that. And they have openings in the floor where you can see down to that, that first century, first century, same.

Chris
Piece of real estate.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, same spot.

Chris
And so it’s really funny is like when you’re there, you get to, you sort of walk into the synagogue and there’s only a few places in Israel where they know that’s where it was. Right? So, you know, like he says, you walk by the Sea of Galilee and it says, this is where he said, come, follow me. And you’re thinking, how do you know? Right?

Jeff
It could have been anywhere, could have been anywhere.

Chris
Yeah, but but you think in your mind, I know it’s close, right. Because this is the shore connected to Capernaum. Right. And and it’s not very far. It’s like it’s like a walk on the beach. Right? Really it is. And so you’re like, okay, this may not be the spot, but it’s close to the spot. And most places are like that, but then there’s certain places where you’re like, this is where Jesus was. Yeah, this is where he stood. And you just know it for a fact. And and that was pretty powerful.

Jeff
And so he’s sitting in this synagogue that’s still there. It’s the it’s the foundation below. It was where he would have been sitting. But it’s in that square footage right there. And so at this point he’s he’s using this, what do you call it, a simile or a metaphor? Simile.

Chris
Simile or metaphor. Yeah.

Jeff
Talking about his.

Chris
Blood. It’s definitely a metaphor. He doesn’t say like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He says, eat of my flesh. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Jeff
So metaphor of him saying, you know, his blood and his, his, his flesh are the bread and the wine. And he’s really kind of challenging them. But it’s because they came after him, right? Right. So we didn’t talk about it yesterday, and I referenced it at the beginning of the podcast here. We’re like, who are you, buddy? Right? Teach us to do these miracles. And he’s like, you’re only following me because you want food. And then they get mad at him. The people who wanted something from him get mad at him. And then he challenges them, talking about how he’s the bread of life. And the reality is. Real bread, not real bread. Physical bread. It eventually it decays. It only satisfies for a short little while. It can keep your physical body alive for a little while, but you need more of it. And so Jesus is using him himself, who he is and what he’s about ready to do. He’s about ready to give his body and accept the punishment of sin in his body. He’s going to pay the ransom with his blood. And he’s he’s foreshadowing what’s coming. Well, think.

Chris
About what he said. He said, whoever eats of this bread, meaning the sacrifice I’m giving my body, you will never die, right? So that’s how you know he’s talking about his sacrifice, right? Which, by the way, is exactly why he referred to the flesh and the blood.

Jeff
Yeah, because unfortunately, the guy who wrote the passage is dead.

Chris
What do you mean?

Chris
John died. John died? Yeah.

Jeff
So if if this was purely physical. This wine is my blood, right? And this bread or this bread is my flesh. Right? And whoever eats of it will never die.

Chris
Right, right. You’re saying. You’re saying everybody died? Yeah.

Jeff
John is dead, right? Right. So then if the author didn’t live up to what he wrote, then we. Why do we listen to him? Right, right. But instead, it’s all spiritual. So they think they’re having a physical conversation with Jesus. We’re talking about bread. This guy’s a nut. He says we got to eat as they questioned.

Chris
Yeah. They said they said, how can he do that?

Jeff
And he’s having a spiritual conversation with them. Right. And it’s appropriate you find the really hard spiritual conversations Jesus has typically are in synagogues or with with religious leaders. And it’s because one of the reasons is because they talked in mystery, they spoke in questions and what ifs, not always dramatic or definitive conversation. Whereas when you find Jesus on the side of the mountain and he’s he’s doing the sermon on the Mount, he’s making very, very clear statements about everyday life. Turn the other cheek. Go the extra mile. Don’t judge right. Love your enemies. That’s what he’s talking about here. That’s not what he’s doing. So when he’s talking to the public, he’s very just open about life and very clear usually. Or he’s telling stories that sometimes people weren’t clear about. Right. So if he’s telling you how to live, he was clear. If he’s telling you about the kingdom, sometimes those stories were maybe a little bit the disciples need him to be more.

Chris
Clear, hard to understand.

Jeff
But when it comes to spiritual things, Jesus is usually sitting in synagogues where he’s talking to the Pharisees, these scholars. So he actually quotes Scripture here, right?

Chris
Well, I think that’s one of the biggest things, isn’t it? Because he’s he’s talking to a specific crowd who knows something specific. Yeah. And they know the they know the Old Testament. Right. And what he’s doing is he’s leveraging that. Right. And so so they’re receiving it in ways that you and I probably aren’t receiving it. Yeah. Right. Right. So can I were you about to read one of the notes?

Jeff
No.

Chris
Go ahead. So. So anyway, it says that the manna that Moses had given their ancestors in the wilderness. See Exodus chapter 16. This bread was physical and temporal. The people ate it, and it sustained them for a day. And that was sort of the big thing, wasn’t it? Yeah. It was about like trying to grab too much and have it be a daily bread. It make them sick, which is why we pray, give us our daily bread. That’s right. And he says, but they had to get more bread every day, and their bread could not keep them from dying. Jesus, who is much greater than Moses, offers himself in the spiritual bread from heaven that satisfies completely and leads to eternal bread. So if if the if the if the truth around manna is that they depended on God daily and and they had to have daily bread in the wilderness, that was their only source of food, or else they died. Like that is what everybody is basing it on. So remember, they had just accused him and said, Moses can do these things, right? What he’s saying is no, no, no, no, no. The people who follow Moses are going to die from his bread, right?

Jeff
Because you’re only talking about physical things. Right?

Chris
But but when you follow me, the bread I give you, you’re not going to die, right? So that’s why it’s spiritual. And then let me read one more thing. It says in verse 56, this is a shocking message to eat flesh and drink blood sounded cannibalistic, cannibalistic. The idea of drinking any blood, let alone human blood, was repugnant to the religious leaders because the law had forbade it. Leviticus 1710 or 11 Jesus was not talking about literal blood. Of course. He was saying that his life had become their own and that that. But they could not accept this concept. The gospel writers, as well as the Apostle Paul, used the body and blood imagery in talking about communion. See First Corinthians 11. Right.

Jeff
So the other way that you know that Jesus is not talking about physical blood here is he’s talking about when he’s praying in the in the garden. He says, let this cup pass from me. Right. What cup? Right. Again, it’s metaphorical. Right? That’s what he’s talking.

Chris
There’s no physical cup, right?

Jeff
There’s no physical cup.

Chris
And by the way, that that cup he’s referring to means when you’re sitting around a campfire, everybody shares in one cup, right? They drink and then they pass it to you. And if you are saying, I don’t want to participate, you say, let it pass, right, right, right. So you’re saying let this cup I don’t want to partake. Yeah. Because what Jesus is saying I don’t.

Jeff
Want to do this next thing. Right, right. And count me.

Chris
Out.

Jeff
Yeah, exactly.

Chris
Time out. Yeah.

Jeff
And so, so it’s all metaphorical. But the people think these religious leaders are so caught up in this earthly mindset that they’re accusing him. They’re they’re trying to argue Moses and Jesus saying, well, let’s go beyond Moses. I came from God. So I’m talking about eternal things. I’m talking about heavenly things. I’m talking about spiritual things. And they’re like, yeah, Moses came from God too. And he did these same kind of miracles. No. Moses. Right. Moses didn’t do these miracles. My father did the miracles through them. Right? And he’s really Jesus is. This is one of those times where he’s really splitting hairs with these guys in a time that, compared to most of the time when he speaks with the with the leaders, religious leaders, he doesn’t. But in this one, I mean, he gets a little argumentative in this going, no, no, Moses didn’t do that miracle. The father did that miracle and he.

Chris
Doubles down too.

Jeff
Yeah, he sure does.

Chris
He says he says, I am the bread of heaven. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And he and he really does. He doubles down and then he says, and even goes as far as to say, I came, I came, and he said, not that anyone has ever seen the father. Only I who was sent from God has seen him. So, so, so not only are they like, hey, wait a minute, but he’s like, hey, I’m the only one, right? And I’m the only one.

Jeff
That’s right. So, so you’ve got. From John six, verse 22, all the way to John six. Verse 59 is all this? That’s a long time for John. John doesn’t write a lot of long passages of stories. He does with a lot of Jesus teaching. He writes a lot of Jesus teaching, but not a lot of the stories. This one seems to have had a huge impact on him, which you can imagine. When he first came to them, he said they were like, Hey, Jesus, where do you live? He goes, oh, come and see. And then later on he meets them. They’re out fishing with their dad, fixing nets. He goes, why don’t you come and follow me? Oh, okay. I’ll make you fishers of men. Yeah, sure. Then later on, I mean, he’d already said, you’re going to have to take up your cross. That’s kind of surprising. But now he’s like, you’re going to have to. And then he also said, you’re going to have to hate your mom and your dad. Right, right. So here’s a young guy going, wow, Jesus. Really ratcheting up these commitments. And then now he says, you’re going to eat my eat my flesh and and drink my blood. And I think that this is just a really shocking moment for because we know John was the youngest of the disciples. Right? So he’s probably a teenager, he probably a middle teenager. Not not like 19. He’s probably mid teens. And the reason why we would say that is because Peter and Jesus are the only two that paid taxes, and everybody else was 20 or under under 20, right? So for John to be the youngest of all the rest of the group, he’s probably mid teens. Jeff
This would have been a really surprising thing for him, and it probably was a little confusing. And then what you’re going to find out tomorrow when we read is that people get mad and leave him. Right. And so this was a pivotal moment because do you remember how often and I shouldn’t overtalk this because we’re talking about tomorrow. But up to this point, everywhere he went, people just want to touch his clothes. And then now, because of this conversation, people leave as soon as Jesus pivots from physical blessing, man, come meet this Jesus guy. He’s going to make all your wildest dreams come true. And he goes, yeah, so let’s talk about the spiritual side of this. And we’re like, oh, whoa, now you’re crossing a line, buddy, right? We want you to do tricks. We want you to keep making Happy Meals into dinners for 5000 people. 20,000 people keep doing that. Walk on the water, teach us some interesting stuff. But, dude, when you start claiming that you are God and that you came down from heaven and that there’s this spiritual element that gives us eternal life, you’re nuts. And the people begin to abandon him on that. And I think that this is a this is a hugely pivotal moment, I think, for John. And that’s why he takes so much time writing there.

Chris
Yeah. And I also think that. Again, you know the way Jesus thinks, the knowledge that Jesus has, you know, the more, the more we try to understand it, the weightier these moments become. Because think about it. So everybody listening in the first century knew everything there was to know about bringing their sacrifices to the temple and sacrificing them. And by the way, Leviticus gives some pretty gory details about blood. Sure. Right. So, you know, we’re talking about, like, gutting animals. So you got deer? Oh, yeah. Sure. All the time. Right. So. So you get it? I don’t do those things, so I don’t get it. However, you know, that was a daily practice for them, right? So think about everything that Jesus has set in motion. Or God the Father has set in motion that Jesus understands about the sacrifice. And then knowing that you’re coming to the earth to be the ultimate sacrifice. Right? So everything about your giving your life for the for the sins of humanity, paying the price that sin demands is, is, is, is a every detail and aspect of the Leviticus passages about sacrifice you are fulfilling. And at the same time he’s making a brand new promise, a brand new covenant, changing the system and knowing that his sacrifice is going to be, you know, symbolic, like Moses, you know, the bread and everything else. And then he gives us communion. Anyway, all of it is symbolic symbolism. I just wanted to say one one thing, because I know our time is running thin, and that is. Let’s not forget that he says this well before he gives the last Communion. That’s right. Or the first communion. Right. Which is the Last Supper, right? Yeah. So. So he’s talking this way well before. Chris
Yeah. And so think about the moment then when he’s in the upper room, think about when he tears the bread and says it. I wonder if they, the 12 understood and connected it to these kind of conversations.

Jeff
Yeah. Well, so John writes a long time about that whole experience there. Yeah. That’s what I’m saying is I think this is a pivotal moment for John that I think because you’d be repulsed by it at first and then begin to lean into it and go, either I believe this guy or I don’t. And they were believing him. So even when they didn’t totally understand it, he writes a lot about it. But then when you get to the Last Supper, he writes a lot about the Last Supper too, right? And I think he I think he ties the two together, and he understands it on a level that maybe Matthew and Mark didn’t.

Chris
Yeah. That’s great. All right. Well, that’s a good place to end. And we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.