Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff
Hey, Chris. It’s good to be back in the studio with you today.

Chris
It is great to be with you, Jeff.

Jeff
Man, this is going to be an amazing episode of the Bible, guys.

Chris
Yes. And we’re talking Jesus is talking about inner purity. There you.

Jeff
Go. That’s what I was going to say. But you beat me to it.

Chris
Yeah. Okay. Well, today. Yeah.

Jeff
Okay. It’s going to be one of those days, isn’t it? Yeah. Okay. Feeling his oats today okay. So we have listeners from almost every state from a whole bunch of countries around the world, and we’re amazed that people keep coming back and listening.

Chris
Yeah, sure, sure are.

Jeff
And so what we thought is Desiree gave us this, this thing where we’re supposed to try to guess where our listeners are from and we’re going to highlight.

Chris
Well, they’re going to guess.

Jeff
They’re going to guess, yes, our listeners are going to try to guess as we highlight some of the interesting facts about the city. I want to.

Chris
Go on record and say that I have not known anything that we’re about to say. I didn’t either particular place.

Jeff
I didn’t either. I think one thing I knew, but I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what I just knew. Okay, it was a.

Chris
You want to take the first one? Yeah.

Jeff
So the first one is in 2012, it held the world’s first internet cat video festival.

Chris
And everybody’s excused for not knowing that.

Jeff
Although everybody’s secret pleasure is to watch internet cat videos.

Chris
Number two, it is home to the largest continuous skyway on Earth, which covers 60 downtown blocks. Wow.

Jeff
Now I’ve seen this.

Chris
That’s a pretty big giveaway.

Jeff
Yeah, I’ve seen it, but I wouldn’t have known it was the world’s largest.

Chris
Yeah. Wow.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. Okay. The other one is this is where scotch tape, the bundt pan, Bisquick and pop up toasters were invented. Wow. Those are really important things.

Chris
Yeah, well, they’re certainly popular. Things like half our.

Jeff
Life wouldn’t even function without those.

Chris
Things.

Jeff
Pop up toasters and scotch tape.

Chris
It was also the site of a flour rivalry between Pillsbury Company mill and the Washburn-crosby company mill.

Jeff
Oh, wow.

Chris
I don’t even know what Washburn is.

Jeff
Yeah, I know, I think they lost because that was that was the it was a rivalry, and it was the Pillsbury gang that went and just wiped.

Chris
Out those very.

Jeff
One. They went wiped out the Washburn Crosby game.

Chris
And of course we’re talking about none other than. Uh, Minneapolis, Minnesota. There you.

Jeff
Go.

Chris
Wow. And by the way, I’ve never been to Minneapolis. You haven’t? No.

Jeff
Oh, I’ve been there several times. Yeah, I’ve never been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, all the cool kids, we go there. It’s like. It’s like a secret. It’s a secret gathering. This is.

Chris
This is where the Vikings are.

Jeff
Yes. Yeah. The Minnesota Vikings.

Chris
So I have not just the.

Jeff
Vikings but you’re talking about the football team the Minnesota Vikings.

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
Okay.

Chris
Who in their right mind would ever think.

Jeff
I don’t know.

Chris
You know I don’t know. It’s it’s the last group of Vikings. Nobody thinks that. Yeah okay. So anyway I have spoken for the Vikings when they came into Detroit many times I would say probably more than any of football team. Wow. So I bet you I’ve done their chapel as a football team. 12 times. Wow. Something like that. And in fact, we even got invited, my son and I, to sit in the box of the owner. Wow. And so we were actually in the box with the owner of the Vikings. Of the Vikings. Yeah. Wow. It’s kind of cool.

Jeff
It’s a big deal. But you’d never actually been to Minneapolis, right? Yeah. That’s what I’m saying about cool kids, right? They actually go there.

Chris
I think I’m the cool kid in the story. Are you?

Jeff
Yeah. Yeah, that was a cool kid story. Yeah, I like it. Well, that’s impressive, Chris. It is. It is a big deal. Did you did the Vikings win or lose when you were sitting in the box?

Chris
Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’ve been to a lot of games.

Jeff
Okay.

Chris
So I don’t know. But I will tell you this.

Jeff
My house has deep mahogany paneling and I own a lot of leather books.

Chris
Is it? And I have a smoking jacket. Hey, hey, listen, listen, listen, I will tell you a quick story, though, okay? It is true. So ten years ago, I had. I had told a story at one of the Minnesota Vikings chapels, and I told this my, my, it’s my CarMax story. It’s my angel story. It’s like one of the it’s the best story I have. And the guy, the, the actual owner came up to me and said, this is one of the most incredible stories I’ve ever heard. Let me get your name and number, blah, blah, blah. And I gave it to him. And then I had planned a trip a ten years ago for my 20 year wedding anniversary to renew my vows in Maui, Hawaii. Yeah. And we were actually heading there.

Jeff
As to Maui as opposed to Maui, you know. Idaho.

Chris
Yes. Yeah.

Jeff
It’s the Maui and Hawaii. Yes.

Chris
Okay. Correct. And then whatever. And then what ended up happening was I get a phone call from the Minnesota Vikings owner who says that he is going to be on a deep sea fishing trip, that that takes like three days with five of the NFL league owners. Wow. And he named all the teams and these are the owners now. These are the big shots like the multi-billionaire Jerry Jones. Yeah. Those kind of yeah yeah. And he said, I want you to come on this fishing trip, and I want you to be our chaplain for this three day cruise, and I want you to share the same story that you told at the at the Minnesota Vikings chapel. And at the time, here’s what I should have said. What I should have said is, okay, I will fly from Maui over to LA and go on this three day trip for you, because I’m going to be in Maui for ten days. And I should have said yes, or at least somehow rode on a dinghy. Something, right? I should have made it happen then. I then want to open up connections in the NFL or something, right? But instead I said, oh man, I said, I can’t do it because I’m heading to Maui. I said, but if there’s any way that you can call me back, I’d love to do it another time. And he’s said, okay, thanks a lot. And he hung up and I never heard from him again. Yep. So I blew my opportunity.

Jeff
So it was a three day tour. Do you think they’re like Gilligan’s Island kind of situation?

Chris
Nobody knows what you’re talking about. Anybody 50 and over, right?

Jeff
No. I was just wondering if they had, like, some kind of a crash in there, lost somewhere. And that’s why you haven’t heard from them? I’m saying I.

Chris
Still know every word of that beginning of the song, by the way. But anyway, the bottom line is, is it’s one of my regrets. I bet you they would have, like, connected me and I would have, like, been in the NFL.

Jeff
Oh, absolutely. You probably would have been a star running back or something.

Chris
No, I’m just saying.

Jeff
I’m just saying. How old were you?

Chris
Like, that sort of opens the door.

Jeff
So it’s ten years ago as a communicator, you’d have been like 40. Sure. You probably would have had a second career in the NFL. Yeah, I would imagine.

Chris
Well, they Wilson was invited for these big conferences for the NFL players and such. Yeah. Yeah. And oh you’re.

Jeff
Talking about speaking. Yeah. Of course. Oh I thought you were talking about.

Chris
Playing as a communicator.

Jeff
Coaching. Maybe coaching. You’d be like on the sideline dude calling.

Chris
Anyway. Anyway, I didn’t go and he never called me and that was that.

Jeff
So. Well, if you’re listening today, Mr. Owner of the Vikings, Chris is still pining for coming to speak at one of those events. You said you’d call him back about. Okay, well, that was very enlightening. Thank you. Yes. Super exciting. That is our big story about Minneapolis. Yes. My one story in Minneapolis is we were at a convention center, and they were passing out candy to all the places. And I went and got over 150 pieces of candy because we went through like four times. That’s my wow, that’s my story. Here we go. We are in Matthew chapter 15. Chris gave me the big eyes. Let me know. It’s time to keep going and quit telling my own stories because he took up all the time with his story. Matthew 15 one through 20 says, Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. And they asked him, why do your disciples disobey our age old tradition? For they ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat. Jesus replied, and why do you by your traditions violate the direct commandments of God? For instance, God says, honor your father and mother, and anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father and mother must be put to death. But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, sorry, I can’t help you, for I vowed to give God what I would have given to you in this way. You say they don’t need to honor their parents, and so you cancel the Word of God for the sake of your own tradition, you hypocrites. Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Jeff
Their worship is a farce, for they teach man made ideas as commands from God. Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear, listen. He said. Try to understand it’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you. You are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth. Then the disciples came to him and asked, do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said? Jesus replied, every plant not planted by my heavenly father will be uprooted, so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch. Then Peter said to Jesus, explain to us the parable that says, people aren’t defiled by what they eat. Don’t you understand yet? Jesus asked, anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart. That’s what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you. Mark chapter seven, verse one says, one day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus, and they noticed that some of his disciples failed to follow the Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating. The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they’ve poured water over their cupped hands, as required by their ancient traditions. Similarly, they don’t eat anything from the market until they immerse their hands in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to, such as their ceremonial washing of cups, pitchers, and kettles. So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, why don’t your disciples follow our age old tradition? Jeff
They eat without first performing the hand washing ceremony. Jesus replied, you hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man made ideas as commands from God. For you ignore. Ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition. And then he said, you skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God. Honor your father and mother, and anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death. But you say it’s all right for people to say to their parents, sorry, I can’t help you, for I vowed to give to God what I would have given to you. And in this way you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the Word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others. And Jesus called to the crowd to come near. All of you, listen, he said, and try to understand it’s not what goes into your body that defiles you. You are defiled by what comes from your heart. And then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowd. And his disciples asked him, what do you mean by the parable he had just used? Don’t you understand either? He asked. Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes. And then he added, it is what comes from inside that defiles you. Jeff
For from within, out of a person’s heart come evil thoughts sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these vile things come from within and they are what defile you. So there you go.

Chris
Yeah, those are two pretty similar passages, aren’t they?

Jeff
Yeah. So except the list of all the things that defile from the inside is way longer with Mark. Yeah. That’s right. When did Mark all of a sudden get all wordy?

Chris
Right. Come on. Mark.

Jeff
Yeah. Hey, don’t add more of these bad things on the list there, dude. Because normally, he’s really to the point.

Chris
Yeah. So, um, so because you and I grew up in a tradition where there was a legalism, a lot more rules, a lot more rules and things, and, you know, the extremes. I’m not talking about just people who are sort of like, you know, murmuring kind of people. I’m talking about like, crazy rules. Right? And, and I’ve always in college, the thing that we would say at, at our college that we went to is actually we would quote this verse. So that’s whenever I see this verse, I actually think of nothing but that tradition, which is verse number eight and nine.

Jeff
Let’s define that for just a minute. Just, just very quickly when you say crazy rules because it’s hard to understand. Yeah, yeah. So we’re back in the 80s. One of the schools I went to, it was a sin for men. To wear pleated pants.

Chris
Is a sin.

Jeff
You know. You know, where there’s like two pleats below your belt.

Chris
They really say, yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. It was a sin to wear a pink shirt for a man to wear. Like a pink shirt.

Chris
Sin. Yeah.

Jeff
It was a sin for a man to use hairspray.

Chris
Okay, now you want to know what got Chris mad today? So. Because my because my college never said sin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They just said these are our rules.

Jeff
Yeah, well, rules are rules. You know, if you’re agreeing to go to a place, obey the rules. But it was surprising to me to.

Chris
There’s two very big difference between saying this is what we want you to do versus God thinks badly of you. Yes. Wearing a pink.

Jeff
Shirt. That’s what I’m saying. So. So for me, when we talk about weird rules like that, they. It was a.

Chris
Sin. I’m gonna have a hard time getting over that. I’m not even kidding. So, dude.

Jeff
I can take you with a list of, like, 150 of those kinds of things.

Chris
Okay? Right. Well, I only want to. I only want to think about that. Yeah.

Jeff
So. So the other side of it is if we decided to go to a school that had strict rules, well, nobody made us go to that school. We could have gone to a different school.

Chris
Yeah, you had to sign.

Jeff
Right. But it was one of those things where, where when they start, when they shift from saying, hey, we have strict rules. The military has strict rules. They shave your head, you’re not allowed to have long hair, all those kinds of things. Right? So the military has strict rules, but you signed up for it. So obey the rules, right. But when it comes to saying it’s a sin and displeases God, that’s what the Pharisees were doing, right? As they were taking man made rules and saying, it’s a sin and it displeases God if you break one of our rules. Right.

Chris
And I love the way that Andy Stanley described it. He talked about guardrails and he said, think about what a guardrail is. A guardrail is like the thing if you’re driving on a high cliffy area, it’s the thing that’s on the side of the road. But you know, you have the road, then you have the paints on the line, and then you have the shoulder, and then you have a guardrail, and then you have like more of land, and then you have the cliff. Right. And the Pharisees would set up guardrails and they would say, hey, we’re going to create a rule so that you don’t get so close to breaking God’s rules. Right? And so it’s like, because and so it was all listed as good intentions, right? So it’s like it’s like, hey, we’re going to use our judgment, which is a dictatorship is what it is. Right? But what they’re saying is they’re saying, hey, we’re going to create these rules. And if you if you obey the rules that we create or you disobey the rules we created, it’s the same as if you break in or broken the commands of God. Right? Right. But anyway. But the but the verse that I was trying to point out was it says they teach man made ideas as commandments from God. So I was just I was planning on giving you nothing even close to what you gave. That’s really serious. I was going to give you a lighthearted example when, when when my college said, you can’t go to a movie. And I was like, what? You know, and and again, I signed up for it. Right. But I still complain the whole time. And I went into the dean of men and I said, why, why, why can’t I go see The Little Mermaid? Chris
1989 The Little Mermaid came out. It was right down the street and they said, well, how do we know what movie you’re going to go see? When you walk in through the doors, you can go see that. Or and then he picked like some crazy rated X title or whatever. And he goes, how do we know? And I said, well that’s I go, you can’t control anybody’s life. I said, where do you shop for your groceries? And he said, I go to Winn-Dixie. And I said, shame on you. And he goes, what do you mean? I go, well, they have a liquor section when you walk in. How do we know that what you’re putting in your brown bag is a gallon of milk or a gallon of booze, right? I go when you go. When you go into a gas station, do you walk in, tell me you don’t walk in, do they? Put the stuff in the bag and he goes, that’s not the same thing. I go, that’s exactly the same thing. Yeah, it’s literally exactly the same thing.

Jeff
But setting up, setting up personal standards in your life is a good.

Chris
Is a good practice.

Jeff
Or even organizationally. Yes. Right. So you got a whole bunch of teenagers who are coming to college and they’re trying to be strict and, you know, they’re trying to be strict. That’s an issue. Setting up standards in your own life, I think, can be a good thing. It’s when you start. To say it’s a sin for somebody else to to break your personal standard, right? Right where God didn’t say it.

Chris
That’s really it.

Jeff
So that’s where Jesus is kind of going after them, going, dude, the things that God clearly says, you find ways around it. And then thing God doesn’t clearly say then now you’re trying to make people obey the rules you’re making about a thing that’s not clearly said, because the Bible does talk about being clean and being careful about how we eat and what we eat, right? That the Bible does say that in the law he did have that. The interesting thing here is the accusation from these guys is not that that, you know, the Pharisees are not saying that the disciples hands were physically dirty, right? That wasn’t what they were saying. Oh my goodness, they’re eating with dirty hands because Jews were not supposed to eat with dirty hands, right?

Chris
They’re not claiming germs, right?

Jeff
It was that they were saying they didn’t go through the ritual. Right? Right. The ritual of sprinkling their hands with a little bit of water before they eat. And so the accusation, at least in either of these two passages, neither Matthew nor Mark are claiming that the Pharisees are saying, oh my gosh, those guys just got done, you know, digging in the manure. And now they came in and ate. That’s not what they’re saying. Or they just came out of the workshop and, you know, they’ve been changing oil and they didn’t wash their hands.

Chris
What you’re saying is really important, right? Because because there’s a practicality to washing your hands. Absolutely. And then there’s the there’s the follower ritual. Right. Kind of reasoning. Right. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. And so what they’re complaining about is the ritual itself, not about eating with dirty hands. They’re not claiming that their hands were filthy. They’re just saying you didn’t go through the ritual of they would sprinkle both hands a couple of times and then they would they’d sprinkle the pots and the pans that they were using. They had this whole ceremony for all that.

Chris
And you know what? I grew up in a tradition, you know, we were non-practicing, you know, people kind of bouncing in and out of church. As a young kid, I used to follow all sorts of sort of religion traditions without understanding a single one of them. Right, right. And and you know, what it reminds me of is the story about the, the lady who cut off the ends of her ham. Oh, yeah. You remember that one?

Jeff
Yep yep yep yep.

Chris
So the lady cuts off the ends of her ham and her daughter says, why? Why do you cut off the big, huge portions of your ham and throw it away? Well, I don’t know. My mom did it. And so she asked her mom and says, why did you end up cutting off the ends of the ham and throwing those away? Yeah, that’s the.

Jeff
Secret to the amazing ham, right? That’s what she’s thinking.

Chris
Yeah, yeah. And she says, well, I don’t know. I just did it because my mom did it. And then her grandma was still alive and she’s, you know, great grandma. And she says, great grandma. Why did why did you cut off the ends of the ham and throw it away? And she says, oh, because my pan was too small. Yeah, right. Exactly. So it’s like it’s like, oh, we don’t even know why we do the things we do, right, right, right. Yeah. And and so sometimes I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s okay to question and it’s just and just say, hey, is this from God’s Word? Which is why you and I have heard both of you I’ve heard obviously myself say this, but I’ve heard you say this. Yeah, yeah. Like it’s okay to question a pastor. Absolutely. Right. So or anybody. Yeah, right. Any Christian, any uncle, any boss, any any organization. Right. And it’s not I’m not saying rebel. I’m saying let us decide for ourselves. Is this what God says?

Jeff
Yeah. So Paul says in in the book of acts, Luke says that the Bereans, the Christians in Berea were more noble than all the others because every day they would search the scriptures to find out if what Paul was saying was true. Right. So it’s fair to go to say, where’s that in the Bible, right? Right. And then to ask, is that consistent? Because they’re searching the scriptures. They’re not just looking for where is that one sentence in the Bible they’re trying to figure out? Is that consistent with what the Bible teaches? Because you can take one sentence. You ever hear the, you know, the joke about the the guy who was just looking for he’s just miserable trying to figure out what to do. And he opens up the Bible and he said, God, I’m just going to open up and tell me what to do. He opens up the Bible and it says, And Judas went out and hanged himself anyway. No, no, no, that’s not the one. That’s not the one. They flipped the Bible open and he lands in the book of Psalms and it says, go and do thou likewise. Right. So you can make the Bible say anything. One sentence can be a horribly. You can apply it in a horrible way. Right? So the Bible has to be consistent with the Bible. The Bible is its own best commentary. And so the Bereans, what they would do is they’d hear Paul preach and they would be intrigued by his preaching, but they just wouldn’t take it at face value. They’d go back and go, okay, where’s that in the Bible? And then is that consistent with what the rest of the Bible says? And sometimes what the Pharisees would do at that time.

Chris
They were researching the Old Testament books of the law. Right.

Jeff
And so because what he was doing was he was trying to say, Jesus is the Messiah, right? And so they were comparing those two things. But that principle of the fact that they were more noble than all the other, all the other groups that Paul went to teach was because they were exploring whether or not what he was saying was true. I think there’s a lot to that. So in this setting, personal standards is fine, right? Trying to impose, you know, telling people it’s a sin to not follow your personal standard would be is wrong. But Jesus says you’re supposed to follow the specific rules that God puts in place, right? That’s really it. Can I read one note? It says Mark chapter seven. We love the notes for the life. Vacation Bible. Verse eight and nine says, Jesus wasn’t against all tradition, but he was against those who made their traditions more important than God’s Word. Good traditions shine. Good traditions shine a spotlight on God’s Word. Move us to obedient service, and help our hearts to sing. They explain and reinforce the teachings of God. God’s words should always be the focus, and tradition is just a means of bringing that word to life. Celebrate your traditions with the prayer that Christ would be exalted. Change your traditions if they become more important than God’s Word. Isn’t that a great a great note?

Chris
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, because because I really think that. Well, our time is about up, but I, but I really find it very interesting how the example that Jesus used was sort of like, disguised an incredible nobility. He’s like, oh yeah. He goes, you’re really dishonoring your parents. And what you do is you’re like, nope. I decided to give it to God. I mean, what can trump that? What can Trump giving something to God? Right, right. And yet somehow Jesus uses it and says, yeah, that’s a good thing. Giving you God’s a good thing. But you understand that it conflicts and you’re just sort of you’re just sort of it’s all about the heart.

Jeff
He knew that they.

Chris
Were justifying.

Jeff
Justifying and saying, oh, I intend to give this to God. Right. And so I’m not going to take care of my parents. So he was going after the heart the whole time. Yeah.

Chris
That’s awesome. Yeah. All right. Well that is a great place to end. And we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.