Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris
Greetings and salutations.

Jeff
You’re so weird, Chris.

Chris
How about that for a greeting?

Jeff
Okay. He’s Chris, and I’m Jeff. We’re the Bible guys, and we’re going to use some big Bible words today. Apparently. Yeah, apparently. Wow.

Chris
That’s cool. Well, Jesus is healing a demon possessed boy. It’s pretty intense.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah. That is. And this description is very graphic. It’s really something. Yes. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

Chris
So today’s segment is a stump.

Jeff
The pastor I love these these are great people have such great questions. Which really means they’re reading the Bible. Yeah.

Chris
And they’re thinking and they’re and they’re and they’re curious. Yep. Which by the way, is what the disciples were. They’re the ones that went to Jesus and said, I want to know more.

Jeff
That’s right. Right. That’s right. Paul talks about or in Luke mentions in the book of acts that the Bereans were more noble than all the others because they kept investigating the scriptures. Right? That’s right. So that’s.

Chris
Great. So here’s the stump, the pastor question, and it is written to us by Diane F.

Jeff
Hi, Diane.

Chris
Yes. And so here’s what she says. She asks this, why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalene not to touch him when he appeared to her after the resurrection? He said, because he had not yet returned to the father, does that mean he didn’t allow anyone to touch him the whole 40 days until he ascended to heaven? Any idea why? Question mark. It’s a great question.

Jeff
Yeah. Great question. Yeah, well, it was right after breakfast, and maybe he was afraid of getting something on his robes.

Chris
Gee whiz, you don’t think so? That’s what you’re going to go.

Jeff
With, you know, I don’t know. Yeah. No, I have some some thoughts on it. I think you do too.

Chris
Let’s read the passage. How about that? Yeah. Okay. So it’s actually John 20. And this is right when Mary was crying. And I’ll just start in 15, it said, Jesus said to her, woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for? Because she thought he was the gardener. She said to him, sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and and I will take him. And then Jesus said to her, Mary. And she turned and said to him in Aramaic, Rabboni, which means teacher. Then here’s where Jesus replies. It says, Jesus replied, do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to my father. Go tell my brothers, and go to my brothers, and tell them I am ascending to my father, and to your father, and to my God, and to your God. Mary Magdalene came and informed the disciples, I have seen the Lord, and she told them what Jesus had said to her. Yeah, so there it is.

Jeff
So very astute. I mean, that’s something that’s interesting to find, because it’s not in all of the gospels that’s only mentioned in John. Matthew and Mark record the the encounter, but doesn’t record the idea that he said, don’t touch me.

Chris
Yeah, I like actually side note I like John because he includes all sorts of details. Yeah, I like John too. Yeah, I like John. John’s okay.

Jeff
That’s good. Sounds okay. Matthew. Mark.

Chris
But John well he survived the boiling of oil.

Jeff
Yeah. There you go. He’s my hero. Yeah. No they’re all great.

Chris
But. So. Yeah. What’s your take on this? I’m very curious.

Jeff
Yeah. So I think he’s trying to tell her. I think he just walked out of the tomb. I think this is. He just stepped out into the garden. I don’t know, maybe stretching when she walks in so she.

Chris
Doesn’t see because the angels were still there.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he’s just resurrected, and I believe what he’s doing. It’s just it’s a practical matter. I think sometimes people want to read spiritual things into it. I’m not sure that’s I don’t think that’s what Diane’s doing, but he’s. It’s just practical. Listen, I’ve got something I need to do, and you have something you need to do. And then I believe because of the phrase he says, don’t cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my father. Go and tell them I am ascending to my father.

Chris
Right. He’s saying.

Jeff
I’m going right.

Chris
Now. Yeah. And by the way, let’s start with that word. Touch me because it says some versions say don’t touch me, right? And some versions say, don’t hang on to me or cling to me and then cling to me, right? And so and so what he’s really saying is, okay, let me tell you how this is going to go, okay. I still have yet to ascend to my father. Yeah. And and you still have yet to do what I want you to do. Right? Which is go tell my disciples. Yeah.

Jeff
So the word can be translated. I remember studying this, and I don’t have it in front of me now, but I remember learning this. The word can be translated generically. Touch, yes, but the nuanced meaning is hang on to. There’s a difference between just touch and hang on to. Right. But there have been some over the 2000 years of Christianity that have said, don’t touch me. As if as a woman, she was unclean and shouldn’t touch the resurrected Jesus.

Chris
Because that was a very big part of the ceremonial cultural back then.

Jeff
Certainly. But this word, the word that’s translated sometimes as touch, is perhaps better translated because of the nuances of the word as don’t hang on to me. So I believe it’s just a practicality I haven’t yet gone back to. I’m going to. And then we know after this, he walks through the door and invites Thomas. Go ahead and touch me. Right, right. Touch my hands. Plunge your hand into the hole of my side. Right. So he’s inviting to be touched then. So some let me let me go back to that. So some religious leaders over 2000 years have implied the woman touching him was unclean. But it was okay for Thomas. Right. And I just think that’s a faulty view. Well, right.

Chris
Not to mention Mary Magdalene had touched Jesus entire ministry.

Jeff
Sure. But after the resurrection, now he’s particularly holy or something is what they’d say. I think that’s a silly view. I believe it’s practically. He walked out of the tomb, intended to go straight to his father first. Father. I finished the job and then he was coming back to go visit his disciples because he walks through the wall and he invites him to touch him. I think it was that he was going right then. So where Diane’s question was, was he going to wait the full 40 days? Nobody could touch him? No, no, because he invited them to touch him. It was just that in that moment, his intent was to go resurrected Jesus straight to the father, then to the disciples. So he sent he said, I have a job to do, and you have a job to do. I’ll see you in Galilee, right? That’s that’s what he’s well.

Chris
It’s every movie moment where where something significant happens. And then somebody looks at the other person and says this phrase. So what happens now? Yeah. Yeah. Right. It’s that moment, right. So she’s clinging to him. She’s she’s crying. Right. She’s she’s she’s so thrilled. Right. You know, and she doesn’t know what to do. And let’s just stay together.

Jeff
Let’s never let this moment end well.

Chris
Right. Or just or just let’s hang in gratitude or, you know, I just want to continue to be with you. And what Jesus is saying is, hey, listen, there’s a there’s a plan that needs to take place here. There’s an agenda. I know exactly how this is going to go. Right, right. And just let you know I’m on my way to ascend to the father. In fact, what I want you to do now at this point is go back and tell them what I’ve just told you, and then that’s your job, right? That’s your job. And and so she does. And and then he ascends to the father. And then, of course, imagine the message. The message is, I saw Jesus, he resurrected. And then he was telling me that he’s going to ascend to the father. And then they’re like, what? You know, like, why didn’t he come back with you? Right? Right. Why didn’t he come with you? Right? Right. Because he told me to tell you he had. He’s got to go do that first. He’s got to go do that first. Right? Right. And that’s where Thomas is like, come on. That’s pretty convenient. Yeah, I’m not doubting.

Jeff
Oh, yeah, you saw Jesus, right? And yeah I bet. Yeah. I think that really is it is that he was letting her know what he was going to do before he came to visit the disciples. Yeah. To add credibility to her announcement. And even then, like you said, Thomas didn’t believe. But later on, he does show up and he does walk through the through the doors, through the walls. And so then all of a sudden, they all had to go be looking back at Mary Maitland going, right, right, right.

Chris
And by the way, one last thing before, because we’re sort of over our time, do not touch me means don’t come near me. Do not cling to me. Don’t continue to cling to me. Implies she already was. Stop touching me. Yeah that’s right. Right. That’s right. So in other words, like you’re allowed to touch me. Yeah, yeah, but we have to end this soon, right? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Jeff
That’s. Well, I’ve had that. We were coming into a place where I was supposed to speak one time, in a country that I hadn’t been to in a while. I had some dear friends that just minutes before I was supposed to walk on stage there, there. And they come rushing in, they start hugging me. And, you know, in a lot of cultures, the hellos and goodbyes are very long, right? You’ve been a part of that. It takes a long time. Kiss on both cheeks and then, oh, I’m so happy we kissed on both cheeks again. And then they’re hugging you and patting you and they’re just. They’re giving you so much of their love and their joy that you’re there, and it just takes a lot of time. And I really believe that’s what’s happening here, is that she is just ecstatic, and she’s ready to come in and just let him know how much she loves him and how devastated she was that he died. But how glad she is that he’s resurrected all these things and he’s like, hey, hang on, run back to them. Let me hurry up and get to the father, and then I’ll come and visit you guys. That’s what he’s doing.

Chris
Yeah. And any, any belief or teaching that implies that there’s something spiritual or supernatural to it. Number one is only a guess. And I would even say it’s inconsistent. Yeah. It’s you know.

Jeff
It’s inconsistent with his relationship with the other women in the, in the, in the group and inconsistent with the fact that just a few pages later, he invites Thomas to touch him. Right, right, right, right. Yeah.

Chris
So let’s move on.

Jeff
To also one other thing. Matthew 17. Some people claim that the resurrected Jesus was only a spiritual resurrection, right? And that is also a false doctrine. Womp womp. Right. This is a physical resurrection. Yes. And so they would use this as a, as a proof that he was just spiritual. But later on Jesus invites Thomas to touch him. And Jesus is cooking breakfast right on the Sea of Galilee, right? Right with them. This is a physical resurrection. But anyways, that that would be the other side of it. Okay. Very good question, Diane. And you took up nine nine minutes. That might be our longest answer so far, is that is one of them. I was.

Chris
Trying to shut you up almost.

Jeff
Ten minutes. No, that was great. I love it so I will never shut up.

Chris
Here we go. We know.

Jeff
Well, if I shut up, you start talking, and that’s the problem.

Chris
Oh, that’s good, that’s good, that’s good, that’s good. I like it, I like it.

Jeff
Okay. So we’re in Matthew chapter 11. I never know what you’re going to say. Matthew chapter 17 rather. And this shows up in Matthew 17, Mark nine and Luke nine. And so it says at the foot of the mountain, remember, Jesus was up on the Mount of Transfiguration. A large crowd was waiting for them. A man came and knelt before Jesus and said, Lord, have mercy on my son. He has seizures and suffers terribly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. So I brought him to your disciples, but they couldn’t heal him. Jesus said, you’re faithless, you faithless and corrupt people. How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me. Then Jesus rebuked the demon and the boy, and it left him. From that moment the boy was well. Afterward, the disciples asked Jesus privately, why couldn’t we cast out that demon? You don’t have enough faith, Jesus told them. I tell you the truth, if you had faith even as small as a mustard seed, you could say to this mountain, move from here to there and it would move. Nothing would be impossible. Wow. Mark chapter nine, verse 14. Jesus. It says when they return to the other disciples, they saw a large crowd surrounding them, and some teachers of religious law were arguing with them. When the crowd saw Jesus, they were overwhelmed with awe and they ran to greet him. What is this all? What is all this arguing about? Jesus asked. One of the men in the crowd spoke up and said, teacher, I brought my son so you could heal him. He’s possessed by an evil spirit that won’t let him talk. And whenever the spirit seizes him, it throws him violently to the ground. Jeff
And then he foams at the mouth and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. And so I asked your disciples to cast out the evil spirit, but they couldn’t do it. Jesus said to them, you faithless people, how long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring the boy to me. So they brought the boy. But when the evil spirit saw Jesus, it threw the child into a violent convulsion. And he fell to the ground, writhing and foaming at the mouth. How long has this been happening? Jesus asked the boy’s father. He replied, since he was a little boy, the spirit often throws him into the fire, into water, trying to kill him. Have mercy on us and help us if you can. What do you mean, if I can? Jesus asked. Anything is possible for a person, believes. The father instantly cried out, I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief. When Jesus saw that the crowd of onlookers was growing, he rebuked the evil spirit. Listen, you spirit, that makes this boy unable to hear and speak. He said, I command you to come out of this child and never enter him again. Then the spirit screamed and threw the boy into another violent convulsion and left him. The boy appeared to be dead. A murmur ran through the crowd as the people said, he’s dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, helped him to his feet, and he stood up. Afterwards, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked, why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit? Jesus replied, this kind can be cast out only by prayer. In Luke 937 through 43. It says. The next day, after they had come down the mountain, a large crowd met Jesus. Jeff
A man in the crowd called out to him, teacher, I beg you to look at my son. My only child. An evil spirit keeps seizing him and making him scream, and it throws him into convulsions so that he foams at the mouth. It batters him and hardly ever leaves him alone. I begged your disciples to cast out the spirit, but they couldn’t do it. Jesus said, you faithless and corrupt people. How long must I be with you and put up with you? Then he said to the man, bring your son here. As the boy came forward, the demon knocked him to the ground and threw him into violent convulsion. And Jesus rebuked the evil spirit and healed the boy. Then he gave him back to his father. All gripped the people as awe gripped the people as they saw this majestic display of God’s power.

Chris
Oh yeah, those are some serious stories. Those are no jokes. Yeah, and we’ve talked about this before, but, you know, because you travel around the world, there are so many places outside of, you know, the United States of America where demon possession is a daily thing, especially.

Jeff
In the areas where there’s a lot of demonic worship or demonic mixture. You know, there are a number of religions around the world that mix demonism. Like in Cuba, for instance, Santeria mixes Catholicism and voodoo.

Chris
Yeah. So crazy. Yeah. It was so crazy to witness over there.

Jeff
I was just with a pastor recently and he was talking about in Algeria, they mix Islam and Demonism together. And so the jinn, that’s where we get the phrase genie from the jinn would be the spirits. And it’s just it’s a thing where they really dabble in dark magic a lot. And so there’s a lot of demonism there. And he mentioned that there’s a lot of demon possession, obviously, in the Hindu world where they know, they admit they’re worshipping demons. There’s a lot of demon possession as well. So yeah, I’ve seen it a lot.

Chris
Yeah. So I want to read a note here in Matthew 1720 from the Life Application Study Bible. It says Jesus wasn’t condemning the disciples for substandard faith. He was trying to show how important faith would be in their future ministry. Right? If you are facing a problem that seems as big and immovable, excuse me as a mountain, turn your eyes from the mountain and look to Christ for more faith. Only then will you be able to overcome the obstacles that may stand in your way. Jeez, that’s just comforting to see it from that perspective. Yeah, I think that that’s probably most likely true. Yeah. The spirit there wasn’t him. You know, there’s no indication of him rebuking. What he’s trying to do is coach them along. Right. Encourage them.

Jeff
If you read this, you faithless and corrupt people. Right. As opposed to you faithless and corrupt people. Right? So if he’s coming down, going. And if you’re reading it with him being angry, right then yeah. But if you read it with him going, yeah, you guys just don’t get it yet, do you? There’s a big difference between those two things.

Chris
Yeah. And not to mention we’re not given the insight for everybody in the crowd that he’s speaking to. There may have been people who weren’t the disciples who were there, who perhaps were.

Jeff
Well, it mentions in Mark it says that the the Pharisees and teachers of the religious law were arguing with the disciples. Right. So neither the religious leaders nor the disciples could cast out this demon, right, right, right. So he could have been calling them corrupt, faithless leaders. Right? And then turning to the disciples and said, if you guys just had the faith like a mustard seed, right, right. This this could be two different people that he’s talking.

Chris
To here, you know, by the way, another sermon altogether, a little side sermon inside that sermon is this is that so many times when we try to do is we read it at face value. We don’t try to open our minds to what it must have been like to be there. For instance, like if we were to just read that and say he yelled at the disciples. Exactly. And in our minds, we are not open to anything else because we see it at face value and say, see, Jesus is indignant and he’s yelling. And so therefore Jesus is angry with us whenever we don’t have enough faith right to do the miracles in our lives. And when we when we attach those things, you know, we have to be open to praying about God. Give us your insight. Give us your wisdom. You know, let’s dig a little bit deeper. Let’s consider all the context. And not only that, but let’s measure this example versus all the other examples of how you interact when you perform miracles and coach people about faith. Right? Because, you know, why would this be any different? Right? Right. I think it’s important.

Jeff
So we also have to remember that for the Pharisees and the religious leaders and most of the Jewish people, faith wasn’t really a thing. It was just obedience to law.

Chris
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Right. That’s exactly.

Jeff
So when we as Christians.

Chris
It was do or.

Jeff
People who are religious and we talk about in our culture, faith, faith, faith, it’s just how you believe, right? Is for them, faith wasn’t a thing. It wasn’t a thing. Right, either.

Chris
It’s it’s really hard to remember that. Yeah.

Jeff
Yeah. And so when he calls them faithless, that’s not a cut down. It would be. It would be a cut down. Now, I can’t.

Chris
Believe you just said the word cut down.

Jeff
Yeah, yeah, but you know what I’m saying. He’s not coming after them.

Chris
I just had a flashback. Acid washed jean jackets.

Jeff
And then. And then when he calls them corrupt, obviously they’re all sinners, right? So I don’t know that they would have heard it the way that we read it. Right. It’s shocking to us. But the way that, you know, Jesus is not angry in those statements is because of in Mark chapter nine, which, by the way, Mark says the most about this, which is rare in Mark chapter nine, which, by the way, Mark is probably writing Peter’s memories of this, right? That’s what history tells us. So Peter, having just walked off the Mount of Transfiguration, not Matthew, not Luke, Peter, this would have been a really in the front of his mind experience. So he gives way more detail on this. So this father comes and he describes the violent convulsions and the writhing and the foaming at the mouth. And sometimes it throws him in the fire, in the water. You can only imagine the concern of this father. His whole job, all day, every day, is keeping this kid alive. Yeah, all day, every day. You can just anybody who has had a special needs child or somebody that’s struggling on this kind of level, you get it, right? You just you live your life to keep this kid alive. And so the desperation of this guy would have, and he comes and he says, how long has it been happening? He says, he’s a little boy. It’s his whole life. And then he says, so it’s happened his whole life. If there’s anything that you can do. Would you? Kill my son. And Jesus says, what do you mean, if I can, I love it’s one of the coolest. What do you mean, if I can? Yeah.

Chris
You can. Do you know who you’re talking to?

Jeff
Exactly.

Chris
You know who I am.

Jeff
And he said anything is possible if a person believes. Well, he’s already called the other people. You know, the Pharisees and the religious teachers and the disciples. You guys are corrupt and faithless, right? If he was yelling and angry, the next statement he makes to that guy is anything’s possible if you believe. So now it would appear he’s blaming the father for why his son is demon possessed. If Jesus is angry with these comments, but he’s not. He’s drawing all of them into. There’s another level. That’s all he’s doing again. And he goes, what do you mean? If I can, of course I can. Anything is possible if you believe. And the guy says this, he says, the father instantly cried out, I do believe. But help me overcome my unbelief. And it turns out. The amount of faith that took for Jesus to heal this boy was just the amount of faith to ask. That was it, right? And that is just it’s one of the most moving passages in the Bible, because the guy is like Jesus, I believe enough to bring my son to you. I believe enough to tell him my tell you my circumstances. I believe enough to ask. And if, if, if that’s not enough, then can you do a miracle and remove all the unbelief? And the Bible doesn’t. Jesus? Jesus doesn’t say, get away from me. You don’t have enough. He doesn’t just walk away from the guy. The Bible says Jesus saw. The crowd of onlookers was growing and he rebuked the evil spirit. He turned. So you want to know how much faith it takes to move a mountain? Do you want to know how much faith it takes to to. It takes enough to ask that. Jeff
That’s it. Yeah. And I love that.

Chris
Yeah, well, help me overcome my unbelief. That’s a good prayer for a lot of us, isn’t it? Oh, yeah. You know, and.

Jeff
I pray that sentence I do believe help me overcome my unbelief so often because I just don’t know. I don’t know when I think God really wants to intervene and when he doesn’t, but I know when I need him to. Right? And so I’m like, okay, would you would you overcome my unbelief?

Chris
That’s excellent.

Jeff
Yeah.

Chris
Well, hey, listen, that’s right about that time, I think that’s a really good place to end. So we will see you hopefully tomorrow on The Bible Guys.