Transcription

Chris
So today Jeff is out of town. And so we have Dave Wilson, our good friend. And by the way, I’ve always joked about this, but you get so many times you say, good friend. Yeah. Is that okay? Okay. Yeah. Dave Wilson
I’m not as good looking as Jeff, but you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a little hair. I look a little better. What were you going to say?

Chris
I said I was. I always have a hard time picking your title. You were, uh, I guess currently your author slash, uh, radio broadcaster. What would it be?

Dave Wilson
Radio podcast host. My wife and I host a marriage podcast called, uh, Family Life Today.

Chris
Family life today.

Dave Wilson
And it’s been on on radio for 35 years, so we took that over. Yeah. Listen to this. A million people listen to it on radio.

Chris
That’s amazing.

Dave Wilson
Do you ever listen to radio?

Chris
No. It’s like.

Dave Wilson
Who listens to it on radio? Maybe you do, but, uh, only half that. Listen to it on podcast. So it’s evolving more toward a podcast. But yeah, we do a 30 minute show, sort of like what we’re going to do today. Yeah, about marriage and family. One of these days we’re going to have you and Liz on.

Chris
That’d be awesome. Well, how about.

Dave Wilson
Your amazing marriage?

Chris
Well, thank you for coming down to the minor leagues and blessing us and being here today. So, hey, today, uh, he’s Dave, I’m Chris, and today we are the Bible guys. So, Dave, today we’re going to do something, I guess, that you’ve never even heard of. I don’t.

Dave Wilson
Know what you’re talking.

Chris
About. The whisper challenge. No, I’ve never heard of this. Yeah. So what we’re gonna do is I’m gonna ask you to put the headphones on your head. I’m going to play loud music. And then I have to think of right now on the spot. Something to whisper to you. And you have to try to guess. You could try a couple of times. Then I’ll shut off the music and see how to read your lips. That’s it. Go ahead. All right, here we go. Here we go. Ready? It’s gonna be loud.

Dave Wilson
Are you kidding me? That is loud. I tried it out. How did you pick that music? Uh.

Chris
Uptown funk. Okay, here we go. Ready? I, man, I got to think. I don’t know what you said. Hang on. My sermons are better than your sermons.

Dave Wilson
Can you say it again?

Chris
My sermons are better than your sermons.

Dave Wilson
No. They are. Huh? No they aren’t.

Chris
What’d you say? You got it, you got it. You got to repeat it. You did it.

Dave Wilson
So, I mean, you may have. My sermons are better than your sermons. Is that what he said?

Chris
That’s what I said.

Dave Wilson
Yeah, you’re right. They probably are. Yeah.

Chris
No.

Dave Wilson
So do I get to.

Chris
Do it to you? Yes. No. I said that to Jeff one time, so I went ahead and I had a hard time coming up with a phrase. So you got to think of something right now. Okay. Are you ready to come.

Dave Wilson
Up with a phrase right now? Yeah.

Chris
You do. On the spot. On the spot. Here we go, here we go.

Dave Wilson
Yep. You ready?

Chris
That is really loud. That’s loud.

Dave Wilson
It’s a good song, though.

Chris
You got to go slow.

Dave Wilson
I’m trying to make it hard.

Chris
I can’t hear anything you’re saying.

Dave Wilson
Oh, I got to say it out loud. I’m better looking than you.

Chris
I think you said I’m better at something than you. Yeah. Say it again.

Dave Wilson
I’m better looking than you.

Chris
Did you say I’m better looking than you? Yeah. Nice.

Dave Wilson
Uh, why is it we both came up with something comparing ourselves to each other?

Chris
Because you have competitive as your strengthsfinder.

Dave Wilson
That might.

Chris
Be. Hey, uh, by the way, uh uh, you did not help me there. You you moved your mouth fast.

Dave Wilson
I didn’t want you to get it, but you got it. You know what? That’s easier than I thought it would be. Yeah. You know, I mean, you you did yours nice and slow and deliberate, but, uh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Bible guys, do we actually look at the Bible or do we just play games?

Chris
We do, we do. Hey, listen, we’ve only we’ve only been horse around for four minutes. That’s pretty good. Yeah, I know.

Dave Wilson
I’ve been watching you guys. You guys horse around for at least five minutes.

Chris
Yeah we do, yeah we do. But then we move into today’s passage is Matthew chapter six. And for to remind our listeners, we are just continuing on in the series. We’re doing a harmony of the Gospels. So harmony of the Gospels is all the Gospels together, four different authors writing about the life of Jesus. And sometimes, you know, when a story is really important, it’s it’s listed in all four gospels. And then sometimes there’s individual recordings by an author that stand alone. And today we’re doing a stand alone. So this what we’re covering today is only recorded in the book of Matthew. So we’re reading from the New Living Translation version, and we’re going to be reading about Jesus teaching, uh, about prayer, fasting and giving to the needy. Matthew six one through 18. So, you know, one of.

Dave Wilson
My, uh, favorite seminary classes was Harmony of the Gospels. Um, you know, I was in my early 30s and really had never done what you just said. Read the Gospels with the other accounts Mark, Matthew, Mark, John, Luke. And then you see different little details about the same story. Like you said, today is more. And by the way, who’s your favorite character on The Chosen? Mine is Matthew.

Chris
Uh, yeah. Matthew. Actually, I think he took mine. Matthew is pretty.

Dave Wilson
Sort of wins you over. He’s. Yeah.

Chris
He does.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. And he’s following Jesus around writing all this stuff down.

Chris
And. Well, the fact that they took the liberty to make him like sort of autistic or whatever. Yeah, it really does. It is a plausible reality. Yeah. Like like, I mean, we don’t really know that Matthew was autistic, but what it did was it sort of, uh, it sort of explained why he would be so good at what he did with taxes and then felt outcast, and why he would choose to be an outsider because he was a loner. Anyway, I’m telling you, man, it’s pretty brilliant.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. I mean, I’m not saying, you know, Chosen’s the greatest Bible, you know, sort of fictional story ever, but you get a glimpse that that’s that’s what happened. Matthew did follow him around and wrote what we’re reading. That’s right. So it’s accurate. You know, he’s he’s hearing Jesus say these words and, uh, yeah. So, uh, I’m reading Matthew six one through 18. Yes, sir. And then Chris is going to give us his expert commentary on it. Yeah, whatever. Uh, watch out. Jesus said, don’t do your good deeds publicly to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your father in heaven when you give to someone in need. Don’t do as the hypocrites do. Blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity. I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get. But when you give to someone in need, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Give your gifts in private, and your father who sees everything, will reward you when you pray. Don’t be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your father in private. Then your father who sees everything, will reward you. When you pray, don’t babble on and on. As people of other religions do, they think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. Don’t be like them, for your father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him. Pray like this. Dave Wilson
Our father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. May your kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today the food we need and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us. And don’t let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one. If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your father will not forgive your sins. And when you fast, don’t make it obvious, as the hypocrites do, for they try to look miserable and disheveled so people will admire them for their fasting. I tell you the truth, that is the only reward they will ever get. But when you fast comb your hair and wash your face, then no one will notice that you are fasting except your father, who knows what you do in private, and your father, who sees everything will reward you.

Chris
Wow, there’s a lot in there, isn’t it?

Dave Wilson
I was thinking the same thing.

Chris
I was thinking this should be three podcasts. Uh, but we’re going to we’re going to go ahead and, uh, cover it all. So when, uh, here’s the part that actually stands out to me and I read a sort of a note in our life application study Bible. Yeah, I find it really interesting when it says, hey, given secret, right? Don’t give publicly. And it reminds me, by the way, of people who help the homeless. And then they then they, then they take a selfie of them, you know, helping somebody and they want to broadcast it. And it’s like, what are your motives here? Right? And Jesus is saying, don’t broadcast how good you are when you give, give privately. Then you’ll get a reward. Because if you if you post it, that’s your reward.

Dave Wilson
Is that what he’s meaning when he says, don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.

Chris
Well, that’s that’s what’s so interesting because my note says this and this is interesting. This is a take. It says when Jesus says not to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, he is teaching that our motives for giving to God and to others must be pure. It is easy to give with mixed motives, to do something for someone that will benefit us in return. But believers should avoid scheming and give to the pleasure of giving. Uh, or and give for the pleasure of giving as a response of God’s love. Why do you give? So it’s it’s a I guess it could be, um, even though it doesn’t explain it that way, but it could be left hand and right hand, because I think other times in the scriptures when he talks about, uh, your motive, he says, you know, if your left hand offends you, cut it off. And all these different places where you sort of use it, uses it symbolically about the desires that we have. So I think this is a plausible explanation talking about, uh, hey, don’t don’t, don’t, uh, don’t try to mix your motives. Uh, don’t don’t give with the sense that you want to reward. Right. Because that’s really what he’s talking about. He’s giving he’s talking about two different motives helping the poor and then wanting a reward from it. So I think that’s a really good explanation from it. Yeah.

Dave Wilson
Have you ever, uh, have you ever given and sort of blown the trumpet sort of let people know?

Chris
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think so. Uh, I don’t think that I meant to, but, you know, John Ortberg calls it a shadow mission, right? The shadow mission is let everybody know. And, uh.

Dave Wilson
The dark side of the mission, sort of behind the motive.

Chris
Behind. Yeah. And sometimes you don’t even realize you have a shadow mission. It’s like you’re trying to give. But then there’s a little part of you, subliminally that wants people to know. And then when that creeps out without you even realizing it, then you sort of look back and go, oh, I didn’t realize that was there, right? Which is why I think he refers to it as a shadow mission. And I think that there’s been times where I’ve done that, where I’ve done something and, and, and then I tried to disguise it by saying, like, hey, I’m not saying this toot my own horn, but let me tell you how cool this experience was, you know, because otherwise nobody would know. You know, I got to tell somebody when.

Dave Wilson
I first came to Detroit, you probably weren’t born yet. Uh, 1985.

Chris
Oh, I was, I was 14, bro. You were 14 by then.

Dave Wilson
Yeah. Uh, you know, to work with Detroit Lions as their chaplain. And a lot of people think it was a paid position. It never was. It was a volunteer position. I mean, the team, uh, you know, covered my costs when I flew on the charter flights. And so there was and I took care of me, got a hotel room.

Chris
And for our listeners that don’t know, you were the Detroit Lions chaplain for over 30 years, 33, 33.

Dave Wilson
Years and one playoff win. That’s right. This year there’s going to be some more playoff wins. But anyway, uh, so I raised support as a missionary. I was on staff with, uh, athletes in Action. So my entire salary came from donations. There’s a lot of people that work that way. Even today on, uh, I’ve worked for family life, but that’s, uh, most of our staff raised their own support. So listen to this. Wow. So I, uh, would have a fundraising banquet at the Silverdome, uh, like, in November, and, you know, invite 500 people or so and say, hey, this is how this works. Will you give? And I remember I won’t say his name, but our head coach at the time really wanted the players to know that he believed in what I did. So he came to the banquet, he wrote a check, and he told the whole team. That he gave to Dave and Ann’s ministry. He I mean, you talk about blowing a trumpet. He literally walked in and said, hey, look at this. Here’s my check. I’m giving it to their ministry. Yeah. It was like the opposite of not knowing what your left hand is doing. He didn’t do it in private. He was like, I want everybody to know I believe in this because.

Chris
You’re not telling us who. Can you at least tell us the amount? Was it like 500 bucks? A thousand?

Dave Wilson
I think it was $5,000. I mean, we had to raise about 70 or 80 grand. Uh, I think our salary was 20, $28,000 from the church. No, from our life. That’s our entire. Yeah. From my raising support back in the 80s, our salary was a couple grand a month. Wow. And we also had to reimburse ministry expenses, so we had to raise more than that. But, yeah, it wasn’t much. But he gave a significant check. Yeah. And, uh, he was one of the winningest coaches in Lions history.

Chris
Okay.

Dave Wilson
So some of you Lions history nuts are thinking who is the coach in 80? Actually, it was who trumpet I won’t tell you what years it was, but it wasn’t 85. 85 was my first year. It was five years later. Six years later. Okay, so some of you know who it was anyway. He’s a great guy. Oh yeah, he.

Chris
Just Google it.

Dave Wilson
He’s a great guy. Wayne fonts, I’ll tell you. He’s Wayne fonts. And Wayne Wayne was watching right now. He would still be like, I am proud to be a part of that ministry. I’ll tell you, we were playing the bucks a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. Down in Tampa. Yeah. And I’m on the sideline again. Why am I telling you this story? But I walk up, he’s on our sideline, you know sort of down the end. Yeah. Yeah. And I literally I mean dude he looked. Like an old man. It’s just funny how we. I mean, I walked up to him. Hey, Wayne. How you doing? Who are you? That’s hilarious. He’s like, oh my gosh, because you’ve been so many years since the 80s. But yeah. Wow. Anyway, that story is, I think, what Jesus. And he says it several times in the 18 verses that I read. You hypocrites. Yeah. You hypocrites, saying that if you’re going to be an authentic follower of Christ, don’t live like I think he’s really referring to the Pharisees. The religious leaders at the time were all about the public, right? You know, another time he says, you’re you’re whitewashed tombs. You know, on the outside you look perfect. But I know what’s going on in the inside. And these are the things that you do to impress people. But your heart is far from me. Yeah. You talk about a challenge for us.

Chris
And really. So I think I’m starting to understand why all three of these really are lumped together. It’s a lot to cover. Yeah. But really what he’s saying is, is he’s saying when you give do it in private. When you pray, do it in private. And when you fast, do it in private. Yeah, that’s really what he’s doing. So the message behind these three topics aren’t necessarily about fasting. I mean they are, but but really the overall message is, uh, you know, do it for an audience of one, do it not to be noticed by others and that God wants us, uh, to to seek his approval in these things, not to get rewards in on earth.

Dave Wilson
Hey, what do you what do you think of, uh, praying the Lord’s Prayer? Yeah, because we read what’s often referred to as the Lord’s Prayer. Yeah. I always say the Lord’s Prayer. Real prayer is John 17, where Jesus prays for unity. You know, a long prayer. But this is the prayer that everybody says is the Our father. Yeah, the our Father. Um, what do you think about praying that over and over because people pray it. Yeah. Usually before big events in their life. I mean Detroit Lions player prayed it before every football game. It’s the last thing we would do in the locker room.

Chris
I would say that when when the disciples went to Jesus and asked them, hey, teach us to pray, because that’s what they said in another gospel. Uh, then Jesus modeled this for us, and I don’t believe it was a prayer to be recited over and over. The reason why is because in two different gospels, it’s recorded two different ways, right? And so like so I think it’s a model. I think it’s like a basic pattern that we should follow. Jesus was, you know, saying, hey, here are the here’s, here’s the flow of of what a prayer should be and it should contain these components. Because if we were to follow it to the word or the letter of the law, you know, it’s like in one gospel, it’s like the disciples said, hey, you didn’t say it that way last time. Uh, don’t you know the Lord’s Prayer? Jesus. Yeah. You know, and it’s like, no, but, you know, basically what he’s saying is like, start out by saying, Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name. And you read the NLT, right? May your name be kept holy. He’s really saying, great is your name. And I think that the reason why Jesus started there is because he wants us at the beginning of our prayer, to sit back and recognize just who it is we’re praying to, because we come to him all the time with our needs, wants and wishes and, and and what he’s really saying is like, hey, if you just rest and just recognize just who I am by the time you get to your needs, wants and wishes, you’ll be a lot less worried about them. And I think that’s just one of the components. We could break down the whole prayer that way.

Dave Wilson
Yeah, you know, I did this once in a sermon. I know your sermons are better than mine because you said that. But no, this is before. Before you and I were on staff together, I actually I did it for the lions at a chapel. Message I gave I was trying to teach on the Lord’s Prayer. This this prayer. Yeah. And I wanted to illustrate that we often don’t even think about the words we’re saying. And so I said, hey, let’s walk through this prayer. I said, I’m just going to pray at first. And I go, our father and I had a guy off to the side go, yeah.

Chris
Oh, what?

Dave Wilson
I’m here. What do you want? Who art in heaven? Yes, I am, and so we had this dialogue back and forth all the way through the prayer, and the whole room is like, what is just like you did there? Like what is happening right now? I’m like, when you pray these words, he’s listening. It’s a dialogue. So, I mean, he couldn’t respond, yeah, I’m here.

Chris
So you set it up and everybody’s like, what’s happening?

Dave Wilson
Give us this day our bread. And he goes, you know what that means? No. God, why don’t you tell me? Well, I provided manna in the Old Testament daily for the Israelites in the desert. That’s pretty cool. So when you pray, give us this day our bread. You’re you’re reminding yourself he took care of us before. He’ll take care of you today. I’m trusting him every so. Anyway, it was a good way to to walk through. Creative.

Chris
Yeah. Very creative.

Dave Wilson
That could be coming to a heritage service near you someday.

Chris
And by the way, until I spoke at the Alliance chaplain that you invited me to, uh, I guess I didn’t realize that, really? Those are just guys mostly in their 20s. Oh, yeah. Right. Which means it’s almost like teaching, like young adults. And because, you know, you see them on TV and you think you just somehow think that they’re like these, you know, just these older, you know, great figures. And you get up and you’re like, these kids are just fresh out of college. A lot of them.

Dave Wilson
They got a lot of money, but they’re kids.

Chris
Yeah. They’re kids. Yeah. Hey, talk about fasting.

Dave Wilson
Because he talked about giving. He talked about prayer.

Chris
Yeah. You fast.

Dave Wilson
Have you ever fasted?

Chris
Oh goodness gracious, I just did I just did, uh uh, what’s today? What? Uh, two days ago. Yeah. Why? Yeah. Well, I for different reasons. Um, but, uh, so when you.

Dave Wilson
Fast, do you fast for a reason? Uh, I don’t know if I was.

Chris
Supposed to be the guy.

Dave Wilson
95%.

Chris
Of the time when I fast. Uh, sometimes I’ll do it for, like, one day, and it’s because something’s on my heart that I’m praying about. And God, you know, talks about fasting and modeling, fasting and things. And then, um, and then sometimes I’ll fast for you. And I have done this. Well, in fact, I fasted with you more than any other person that I’ve ever done with. Right? So for years on staff, we would fast right before Easter, right? Yeah. And actually, our first fast that we ever did like that together was an oh eight 2008. Did you remember that.

Dave Wilson
It was oh eight.

Chris
Because we fasted for the campaign. Um, that’s what we did for the results of the campaign. And so we fasted for a week, and then the next year it was like, hey, let’s do that again. Let’s fast for ten days. Yeah. And then for 14 days, right. And then and Kevin Valentine, our friend, joined us and and yeah, I think there’s different reasons why you fast. Uh, but, you know, the purpose of fasting isn’t to let everybody know that you’re holy on the outside, right? So you don’t just say, hey, everybody. Uh, no meal for me today. I’m fasting announcement. Right? You should just try to keep it on the down low because, uh, God calls us to, uh, fast at times just to say, God, you’re more important than anything that I desire. And no matter how hungry I am right now, I just want you to know, God, that you’re more important than that, even. And so the thing I’m praying for, and the thing that I’m lifting to you, it is the most important thing to me, even over the needs of my own body. Yeah.

Dave Wilson
And there’s something, you know, we know this because we fasted. But if you’ve never done it, I encourage you to try it, because when you cut food out. And the longest I’ve ever done is, I think, 20, 21 days, three weeks. But usually I do a ten or a 14 day fast going up to Easter. I still do it. Um, and it’s just interesting. Interesting what happens because food’s gone, which first of all, you realize, wow, it’s a big part of our lives even sitting down with people. Mhm. Um, but it sort of dials you in, focuses you on. Wow. The only thing that really matters above everything else is vertical this relationship with Christ. So it does sort of focus you in that way. I know that uh, 37 years ago I heard James Dobson, you know, that name on focus on the family. Of course. Talk about taking a day, a week to pray for his kids. The reason I know it was 37 years ago because my oldest had just been born C.J. Wow. And I turned to Anne and I said, you know what? I’m going to take Fridays and I’m going to pray for CJ and his wife someday. And him being a man of God someday. I had no idea at that moment that I would still be doing it 37 years later. I thought I’d do it for a month or two. Wow. But for the last 37 years now CJ Austin, then Cody, and now they’re married. It was just a day to say I’m going to. And I remember praying when they were little boys for their wife who’s a little girl somewhere, you know son. Yeah. And their, their legacy. And I tell you what dude, you know, I did all three of their weddings in the chapel as their dad, but as their pastor. Dave Wilson
And when I looked over at, you know, Kendall and then Jenna and Robin, you know, I remember looking at him saying, I’ve been praying for you before you were born. Right? And this day is sort of like a holy day. Yeah. And so anyway, it’s sort of what Jesus was talking about. Nobody ever knew this. And I shouldn’t even be telling you now. It’s almost like, hey, look at what I did. But it was just this silent little commitment that again, I’m not saying they’ve turned out to be these amazing men because I fasted on Fridays. That’s not it isn’t a you do this, you get this. But there is something about same inner things that are holy in your life. You want to just zero in and say, God, I am just going to lay this before you. I’m sure that’s what happened to you. This last week is like something that’s really tender in your life. You’re like, ah, this is so important. I’m not begging God to do something because I’m not eating, but I am going to just say, I want to pray continually, because all day on Friday when I get hunger pangs, starting about one, two, three in the afternoon, I just pray. It’s just like a reminder, like, okay, time to pray.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, there’s no doubt. And when my my oldest daughter’s married, my two younger kids in their 20s, they’re not married yet. Um, but when Brandon asked for my hand in marriage, he took me out to.

Dave Wilson
He didn’t ask you your.

Chris
Hand or asked me permission for her hand. Thank you. Uh, he took me out to this restaurant. It was a nice restaurant, and I had the privilege of telling him the exact same story. Really? I said, I said I brought Sarah home. I said we put her in the crib first time at home, and I said, listen, I knelt down, I said, and it was. And it was actually Dobson. It was Dobson who reminded us, and I think that’s where Liz got it. It was Liz who told me about this story. And so we prayed for her future husband. And, uh, and so I’m like in tears telling Brandon, I said, dude, I’ve been praying for you for your entire life. Wow. So it’s the same thing, right? So we both have that in common. That’s just an unbelievable story here.

Dave Wilson
Here’s what’s amazing. I mean, this that in itself is amazing. But I was thinking we both were impacted by a podcast or a radio broadcast. Oh yeah. And now somebody hopefully is going to hear this and they’re going to go, you know what? I’m in. Yeah, I’m gonna try. I mean, it’s amazing to think even what Ann and I do on family life today. We get messages every day from people all around the country that go, yeah, something you said today has changed my life. And it’s like, wow, look how God has now turned that whole thing to the next generation.

Chris
That is amazing. Well, listen, that’s our time and that’s a great place to end. Hopefully that’s an encouragement to you and we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.