Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff:
All right, Wesley, I just heard the roll in and it says we’re supposed to talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Wesley:
Yes, that’s what we’re going to do.

Jeff:
You better make it fun. So, hey, if you’re with us for the first time, I’m Jeff Forster, one of the co-hosts of the Bible Guys, and I have as a guest co-host today, the unstoppable, inspirational, and captivating Wesley Woods. He’s been with us all week long and Chris Zarbaugh is out this week. He’s working on a project in the Dominican Republic and so I am so glad that you are with us. This should be a fun and interesting podcast.

Wesley:
Yeah, it’s good to be here. So I gotta ask this, so this is gonna be funny, and this is called Who’s Most Likely, but we’re gonna bring Chris into this. So who’s more likely between you and Chris?

Jeff:
This is usually the episode where we’re asking what made Chris mad this week, but since he’s not here, we are going to just add him in. Yeah, we’re gonna add him in.

Wesley:
Okay, who’s most likely? Who’s most likely? So here’s the first one, there are five of these. Number one, Who’s most likely to laugh at their own jokes, even when no one else finds them funny? You or Chris?

Jeff:
I’m going to say both of us, but… These are going to get you in trouble. Yeah, I’m going to say me on that one. I think I laugh more at my own jokes than he laughs at his own jokes. Okay. Yeah, I’m gonna I’m gonna take that one.

Wesley:
All right, so number two who’s most likely to become a viral meme without even trying Walking viral meme so There’s no doubt about that. He wins that one. Okay. Yeah number three Who’s most likely to take a day road trip to another state for one meal?

Jeff:
Oh me I’ve done it Okay, you gotta give the backstory. I’ve done it. So my wife grew up near Chicago, and then I worked in Chicago for years. And I began to realize, I was working late at night in Chicago. I used to work for UPS, and the main hub used to be downtown. And then I left UPS and I went to work for Marriott Hotel on Michigan Avenue, just north of the river there, a magnificent mile. And so we would get out of work late at night, I was still in college, and would have to drive an hour home. So a lot of times we’re starving college guys. And we began to realize that wherever there were a bunch of cop cars at a restaurant at 11 o’clock at night, it was gonna be a good restaurant. And so we just would pull in, if we drive past, back then Mayor Daley was the mayor and he allowed restaurants to give free food to police officers, firefighters, and ambulance drivers. And so, you know, if you could eat for free anywhere and you keep going and there’s five cops in one place, well you want to go there, five firefighters. And so we found this place called Riccobini’s and Riccobini’s is underneath the freeway bridge just north of where the White Sox play baseball.

Wesley:
This sounds like one of those places that’s been around since like the 50s or something. Yeah, I think it was the 20s.

Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, it was the 20s. And when I found it, it was a hole in the wall. Literally, it had like a rail, like a shelf against the wall that was the only table. And they just fixed the food, handed it over, and it was a carryout kind of a place. And they make the most amazing breaded steak sandwiches. So they’ll pound the steak flat, they’ll bread it, fry it, and then they dip it in marinara and fold it up. They put it on an Italian bun, cover it in marinara with peppers and onions, and then cover it in mozzarella on this Italian bun. And then they fresh cut their fries. And it’s my favorite sandwich in the world. I’m sure it’s a week’s worth of calories. But hey, when you’re 20 years old, you can eat anything you want. So I did. And man, Bonnie and I, we were just talking about it one day. This is a few years ago, probably a decade ago. I was just talking about Rick and Beanie’s and I would love to go back there. I said, I would go right now. And she goes, let’s go. And I had gotten out of work early, I didn’t have any more meetings that day, and so we got the kids, we put them in the car, and we drove all the way to Chicago for a sandwich. And then drove back. Well no, we stayed the night. At least you stayed the night. Because we left at like three in the afternoon. So we didn’t even get there until eight o’clock. It’s like four, four and a half hours. And then we stayed overnight. I got the same sandwich the next morning. So you’re committed. We go for lunch and then we drove all the way home.

Wesley:
Wow. We didn’t do anything else in Chicago. Just for the sandwich.

Jeff:
We just went, got the sandwich two times and came home. Oh wow.

Wesley:
Yeah, so definitely.

Jeff:
So you win the record on that one. Definitely. I drove 700 miles round trip for a sandwich.

Wesley:
For a sandwich. I might do that for the Waffle House. I don’t know.

Jeff:
I would too. I would too. I love Waffle House. You and I both get in a car. Our closest Waffle House is in Perrysburg, Ohio.

Wesley:
You can go to the one in Toledo. I just prefer the Perrysburg, Ohio.

Jeff:
I like the Perrysburg one too. I like to get my hash browns scattered, smothered, and covered.

Wesley:
That’s how I get them. Number four who’s most likely to try to break a world record for the silliest reason imaginable That’s funny And then last one this is it number five who’s most likely to? Accidentally set off the fire alarm while trying to cook a simple meal I’ve never heard Zarbaugh talk about cooking.

Jeff:
Well. He’s not he’s not a cook. He’ll say that he’s not a cook So then that’s going to be me. But I don’t really set off the fire alarm very often.

Wesley:
Well, it might be Zerba if he doesn’t cook very often.

Jeff:
Yeah, that’s true. Since he’s not a cook, he set it off boiling water. That’s pretty good. Okay. All right. Well, we’re going to put that on Zarbaw then. Yeah. All right. Hey, that was a fun one. Yeah. Well, we miss you, Chris. We’re looking forward to you being back in the studio soon. Yeah. So, um, I think, uh, I think the next time he’s in the studio, I am not. Oh, wow. Yeah. I’m, I’m on my way. I have a project in, uh, London. We’re working with a church planting group. They’re introducing this idea and then I’ll be in Tanzania. And then I’m leaving Tanzania and going to Sri Lanka. Oh, wow. And so, yeah, I’m going to be gone for two weeks.

Wesley:
Hopping around the world. Yes.

Jeff:
I think Zarba is going to be with guest host over the next couple weeks. So that’s pretty good. Yeah. Anyways, hey, we are continuing with the story of the life of Joseph and all these promises God had made are coming true. We have wrapped up, the last time we wrapped up where Joseph had sent his brothers with grain and kept Simeon back saying, go get Benjamin, and bring him back and prove that he is really alive, and that’ll prove to me that you guys aren’t spies. And he’s just yanking their chains, right? Because they don’t know who he is. Well, then they do. They come back with Benjamin, And in the previous chapters, now we’re skipping that part, but in the previous chapters, then Joseph is so happy. He still has not exposed to them who he is. He has a big banquet and he gives Benjamin five times as much food. Now remember, Benjamin is Joseph’s full brother. All the rest of the brothers are Joseph’s half brothers. Yeah, because Jacob was married to four women, right? The Bible doesn’t endorse that. That’s just the truth of it. And so the other brothers, the other 10 brothers are his half brothers, but he had never met Benjamin. Benjamin was born after he had been sold. So he then gives them a bunch of bags of grain. He puts their gold or the money that they paid back in the bags of grain. And then he had one of his servants hide his Silver cup in Benjamin’s bag. Yeah, and then after they leave he sends some police to go and arrest them for stealing his cup. Yeah He’s giving it to him. And they’re like, oh, you can’t do this. And Ruben says, our father is at home and I promised him that I would bring Benjamin back. And if I don’t, then he’s going to execute my kids. And so don’t do this. Please don’t do it. Lord, please let me stay here. And Ruben is saying, I’ll be the slave and send Benjamin back. And then that’s where we pick up in Genesis chapter 45. It says, Joseph could stand it no longer. There were many people in the room and he said to his attendants, out, all of you. And so he was alone with his brothers when he told them who he was. And then he broke down and wept. He wept so loudly the Egyptians could hear him and word of it quickly carried to the Pharaoh’s palace. I am Joseph, he said to his brothers. Is my father still alive? But his brothers were speechless. They were stunned to realize that Joseph was standing there in front of them. Please come closer, he said to them. And so they came closer and he said again, I am Joseph, your brother, whom you sold into slavery in Egypt. But don’t be upset and don’t be angry with yourselves for selling me to this place. It was God who sent me here ahead of you to preserve your lives. This famine that has ravaged the land for two years will last five more years and they’ll be neither plowing nor harvesting. God has sent me ahead of you to keep you and your families alive and to preserve many survivors. So it was God who sent me here, not you. And he is the one who made me an advisor to Pharaoh, the manager of his entire palace and the governor of all Egypt. Now hurry back to my father and tell him, this is what your son Joseph says. God has made me master over all the land of Egypt. So come down to me immediately. You can live in the region of Goshen where you can be near me with all your children and grandchildren, your flocks and herds and everything you own. And I will take care of you there for there are still five years of famine ahead of us. Otherwise you, your household and all your animals will starve. Then Joseph added, look, you can see for yourselves, and so can my brother Benjamin, that I really am Joseph. Go tell my father my honored position here in Egypt. Describe for him everything you’ve seen, and then bring my father here quickly. Weeping with joy, he embraced Benjamin, and Benjamin did the same. Then Joseph kissed each of his brothers and wept over them, and after that they began talking freely with him.

Wesley:
That’s an amazing story beginning of his life to the end. Yeah of this story here It’s just absolutely amazing. Yeah in verse 5. I love that last sentence It says it was God who sent me here ahead of you to preserve your lives and I think about how God can use a bad situation, but turn it out for your good. Now, it’s not that God is causing the bad, and I think that’s where sometimes people confuse it. God isn’t causing the evil that you see in the world, but in the midst of that evil, God can preserve and bless and do all types of things. So I think it’s important to separate the two. It’s not God causing the bad, but in the middle of bad, God can cause good to spring forth.

Jeff:
Yeah, which is exactly, so God’s not saying it was good, or it was even God’s plan for his brothers to sell him into slavery. It wasn’t God’s plan that he would suffer in slavery or suffer in prison, but all those things happening, God was guiding Joseph in a way that Joseph could save the whole family. which ultimately from Jacob’s family comes Jesus. This was a part of the whole strategy of getting Jesus to the planet was through Abraham’s family. Isaac was Abraham’s son. Jacob is the chosen one of Isaac’s sons. And then now you have one of Isaac’s sons, or one of Joseph’s sons, or Jacob’s sons. There you go. You have one of Jacob’s sons rescuing Jacob and the family to keep this going. So yeah, you’re right. God uses a bad thing Yeah, he didn’t cause the bad thing, but he made good come out of the bad thing.

Wesley:
Yeah Yeah, but I do think it’s funny how you mentioned in verse 3 how the brothers were speechless and they were stunned which I Can understand how they were shocked to see Joseph standing in front of them, but they caused this whole mess Yeah that they were it’s not like Joseph caused the mess that they were in, they really caused the mess that they were in in that moment. So it’s just hilarious to me like they don’t know what to say in that moment. Maybe I would have apologized, started off with that.

Jeff:
I don’t know what to say right now. At first I think they must have been thinking, how does he know this story? Yeah. He’s using this against cause he’s been playing mind games with him all along. Yep. Right. This is, this has been, you think about it, it would have taken months to get to back to Canaan and then to come return again. And so Simeon’s been in jail all this time. I don’t know what kind of jail it was. Yeah. He’s certainly been being held back. And then he’s kind of playing games with them. He arrests them after having placed this cup in Benjamin’s bag, all this stuff. And then finally he can’t stand it anymore. And the thing that pushed him over was Reuben’s desire to be willing to sacrifice his own life for the benefit of

Wesley:
his brother yeah right but i wonder and we don’t know the motivation in the heart of ruben but i wonder what was his motivation was it really that he cared about Benjamin, or was it more so he cared about his family more? I wonder what the motivation was.

Jeff:
His argument is, our father’s life is bound up in the boy’s life, is what it says in the previous chapter 44. And he says if he sees that the boy is not with us, our father will die. So he’s appealing. But it’s interesting, he didn’t know that Joseph was Joseph. So he wasn’t appealing to Joseph like, Like, hey, if you don’t do this, your dad’s gonna die. What he’s thinking is, if this happens again, dad’s gonna die, right? And so I think Joseph can see a little bit of repentance in them, at least in Reuben. the idea that I can’t put my dad through that again, right? So keep me, that doesn’t care about me. He cares about Benjamin. Keep me, I’ll do it. Reuben’s the oldest brother. And so he’s speaking on behalf of all the other brothers when he says this, right? That’s how it worked in the Middle East culture. And so he’s speaking on behalf of all the brothers. Keep me, let Benjamin go because our dad will die if he doesn’t show back up again. And that’s when finally Joseph, I think is realizing my dad almost died because I was gone. He loves me. My brothers are feeling guilty about what they did. That’s why they don’t want to do this again to their dad, all these things. And I think that was enough. It was enough to realize they’re in anguish. It was enough to understand that they had realized what they’d done before was wrong and they can’t do it again, you know, all those things. And that’s when finally he can’t stand it any longer. And he goes, okay, hey, I need to tell you something. I’m Joseph. And then they’re like, what?

Wesley:
Sometimes I wish I could get the backstory behind something so how it talked about how He wept so much that it made it all the way to Pharaoh’s house, right? So I want to know like the bet. Well, what were they thinking was going on? You know the nuances and backstories. Yeah But I do love verse 10 when it says, you can live in the region of Goshen where you can be near me with all your children and grandchildren, your flocks and herds and everything you own. So, number one, after everything that happened, he wants the brothers and the family near him. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is just absolutely amazing. And then to take it a step further, how Joseph chose holiness over revenge. He could have had revenge in his heart. We sure did. But he chose holiness instead. And for our listeners, I think how often do we do that? You know, do we choose holiness or do we choose revenge? Because revenge is what makes the flesh feel good. We would love to get back and have the last word and to do all that, but is that the holy response? Or is that what’s just gonna make your flesh happy?

Jeff:
Boy, that’s a challenge. That’ll preach, Wesley. That’ll preach. Hey, I just realized, by the way, I think I said Reuben was the one who stepped forward. It wasn’t, it was Judah. So for our Bible students in there, everyone saw somebody catch me, I’ll make a mistake. I know what I was thinking, and then all of a sudden I went, I think I said Reuben, so I went back and checked it. It was Judah who was the one who stepped forward. And this would have been a great test for Joseph to be able to know, did they really change? And there is something about that too. It’s not wrong. If you’ve been hurt by somebody, God calls us to forgive them. But to let them back into your life, it’s fair for you to say, I need to know that you’ve changed before I’m gonna let you back in my life. I can forgive you, where forgiveness is, I’m not gonna punish you. I’m not going to take real forgiveness, and I know this in my own life, real forgiveness is saying, I’m giving up my right to be the judge, jury, and executioner. I’m gonna give that over to God. Joseph did that clearly because he could have executed them and he didn’t, he blessed them anyways. So he forgave them, but he wasn’t sure if he’s going to let them in his life again. And he let them in his life once he realized even Judah was willing to step up and take responsibility for the family, for the benefit of his brothers, where they’ve changed since I knew them. And looking for that change is what I believe changed Joseph. And I think that’s a reasonable thing for us, that we can forgive Hey God, I’m giving up my right to be the judge, jury, and executioner, and that’s up to you now. But I don’t have to let people who hurt me back in my life.

Wesley:
And I think, Jeff, that’s what people struggle with right there, with not having a good understanding of forgiveness. For some people, in their mind, forgiveness means that I’m just accepting you back and letting you back in. I think of that person struggling in, let’s say, an abusive relationship. They’re dating someone. It’s an abusive relationship. They separate themselves from that relationship. The Bible says that you have to forgive. And they’re thinking, well, you know, I don’t want to let this person back in. You don’t have to let, you should forgive, but you don’t have to let that person back in. And I think people struggle with that.

Jeff:
That’s right. He let them go a long time where he was trying to figure out, have they changed? And this is the moment when he realizes they did change, is when Judah steps up and goes, our father’s going to die. I’ll suffer for the benefit of the rest of the brothers. Whereas before they had so much hatred in them that they were willing to kill their brother. And now it’s Judah saying, I’ll suffer so that the rest can have and he realized, okay, hey, even Judah, kind of the ringleader of the group, was the one that had demonstrated that he changed. And Joseph went, okay, now you can move to Goshen, right? Now you need to know who I am. I’m Joseph, I’ve been testing you for months. and you’ve proven to me that you’re legit. And so I’m not saying that you should treat people like you’re the Pharaoh and you get the abusive back to test them. You’re like the thumbs up or thumbs down. I’m gonna kill you or not kill you. But I am saying that there is value in having people who’ve hurt you prove that they’ve changed. And that can take time. And maybe it’s unprovable sometimes. So forgiveness and restoration are two different things. And in this situation, you get them both. And not only that, but Goshen is up in the Nile River Delta, where if there was any place in Egypt that you were gonna be able to grow food and take care of your sheep and your goats and stuff, it was gonna be there. Yeah. Right. And so he not only restored them, he put them back in the best place.

Wesley:
Yeah. In a prime location. So Jeff, we’re talking about forgiveness and we saw how Joseph did that. But someone’s listening right now and they’re thinking, how can I even forgive when a person did me wrong, when they did something against me? How can I even get to that point? You know, you could have a child angry at a parent. You could have all different types of situations. How can you? Someone is thinking that right now. That sounds great, you know, to forgive and all of that. But how can I even do that based on what was done to me? What would you say to that?

Jeff:
Well, I think we have to redefine our concept of forgiveness and have it align with God’s concept of forgiveness. When God forgives you of your sin, he’s not saying your sin was okay. He’s not saying, oh, it’s no big deal. That’s what we think, I think, sometimes. When God forgives our sins, he still executes justice. Jesus died, and that fulfilled the justice of God with regard to our sin. So then God says, I’m not going to punish you anymore. I don’t need to execute judgment on you anymore. And that is, if we can get to that point where we say, okay, I’m going to choose not to execute judgment on you. Yeah. That is God’s level of forgiveness there. Right. Yeah. And then, you know, in Romans chapter 12, it says to don’t repay evil for evil, but pay good. Right. And then don’t try to get revenge. Instead, God says vengeance is mine. I will repay. So if you can say, OK, I’m not going to be the one getting revenge for what you did. Yeah. and I don’t feel the need to execute judgment on you. I’m gonna let God do that. That is the threshold of biblical forgiveness is right there. And it sets you free because no longer do you have to hunt this person down. No longer do you have to figure out and connive some solution for revenge. No, you are free now to go about your life and it’s over. That doesn’t mean you restore them. Restoration was a whole other process for Joseph. Way beyond free. He chose to forgive them when he met them. He’d probably already forgiven them because he chose not to execute them the minute he knew they were. Because the Bible says he knew who they were immediately. And these were the guys that Judah wanted to kill him. Mm-hmm, right? Yeah, and and instead He forgave them then and chose not to kill them back. He blessed them anyways. But you don’t have to let them back into your life immediately. Restoration and forgiveness are two different things. But I think the Western view is forgiveness is everything’s okay, we’re back to normal.

Wesley:
And that’s not biblical forgiveness. What people struggle with, that if I say I forgive you, it means I’ve given a green light to what you did. I think that’s how people sometimes configure it in their minds, but that’s not the biblical

Jeff:
That’s right. That’s right. So I think that, you know, we can look at Joseph’s life here and see that there’s a difference and there’s a big gap between the moment he forgave versus the moment he restored. Those are two different things. Yeah. Yep. No, this has been a great story. Oh, that’s fantastic. Well, thank you, Wesley, for joining us this week. And thank you for joining us here on The Bible Guys. We look forward to seeing you the next time.