Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Well, hey, welcome to The Bible Guys. I’m Chris and this is Jeff.

Ryan:
Yeah. All the way from Africa.

Chris:
Jeff, you’ve trimmed down a little bit.

Ryan:
Moving on. Moving on.

Chris:
Hey, this is obviously not Jeff Forester. This is Ryan Morrill, and we’re asking him to step in. In fact, we have different guests all this week. Yeah. So last week we had Jeff was here, I was out of town in Dominican Republic, and Wesley stepped in for the full week. But for this week, it’s me and several different guests.

Ryan:
Yeah. Honored to be here.

Chris:
And you are the first of many, buddy.

Ryan:
That’s fantastic. No, actually, you’re the second. Am I the second?

Chris:
You’re the second, because Quinn was yesterday.

Ryan:
I finished second a lot, especially in elementary school. I have all the red ribbons, second place, red ribbons. That was just my thing.

Chris:
That was good. So I have known you for how long?

Ryan:
Gosh, are we going on… 20 years. 20 years. Yeah, 20 years. That’s amazing. It is amazing, yeah. Amazing. We still look the same, too. Of course we do. We both do. Yeah, of course we do.

Chris:
20 years. You look more the same than I do. I don’t know. But I will say that we used to work at a previous church together, and then I came over to Heritage Church, and then you got hired here, and so now we’re at the same church again. It’s amazing. Which is kind of cool.

Ryan:
great, great year of my life right now. So thrilled to be here and so good to be reunited with you. Yeah, no doubt.

Chris:
Thanks, man. Well, Ryan is our family ministries director at Heritage Church, where we both work. And so he’s in charge of basically college all the way down.

Ryan:
Uh, high school all the way down.

Chris:
High school all the way down. Yep. Okay. Yep. So infants through all the way through high school.

Ryan:
Yep. 18 years old. Oh, that’s awesome.

Chris:
There you go. So, um, so listen to this. So Desiree put together this show sheet and, uh, she, she had a question for, for, for, uh, Quinn yesterday that was okay. I like your question way better. Okay. So here it is. You ready? Yep. Ryan, if your life were a musical, what would be the title of your big solo number? And what would it be about? And bonus points if you can give us a snippet of the lyrics. Oh my gosh. Okay, right? Wow. So I’m going to give you a minute to think. And while you’re thinking, I’m going to tell the audience that Ryan purposefully did not look at this question. So he is hearing this question in real time. So Ryan, we’re going to have to unfortunately go back to you. And what is your big solo number called?

Ryan:
Alright, so if my life was a musical, I would say that the title of it would be… Something about running the race. I love to run. Yeah, you’re a runner. And everything in my life seems to have an analogy to that. You know, the season I’m in, sprinting, pacing. Running, running, running, running, running. And then, you know, but at the same time, too, I always feel like I finish in second place. So that’s just naming your big solo number? Yeah, it could be. And it’s also part of the lyric. All right, so sing us a snippet. Oh, gosh. Now, this is where you put me on the spot. Yeah, come on. Come on. There’s sweat on my face all over the place. I’m running the race, and I desperately want to get something other than second place. Whoa, look at that. Hey. There you go. Come on, on the spot. On the spot, literally making it up word by word right there. Holy Christmas. That is better than I could have done. Good for you. So maybe someday I will get first place, but second place is OK. I still get a red ribbon, and I’m happy with that.

Chris:
That is so funny, dude. Wow, you’ve got talent.

Ryan:
You’re a poet, don’t know it. I got lucky right there, that’s all it was. If it was good at all, some of you may think that was horrible. Yeah, that’s true, that’s true.

Chris:
My wife’s at home saying, that’s horrible. That was horrible. No, she’s not. She’s like, I love Ryan so much! That’s what she says. All right. So today we are diving into, because yesterday we finished up Genesis, and we’re moving into the story of Job. And Job is one of these incredible characters of the Old Testament where it’s sort of like lamentations, right? It’s just so sad. It’s unbelievably sad. And these horrible things happens to Job. And not only is that the case here, but on top of that, we have a bigger issue, which is why we got to allow this. Right? So there’s all these things surrounding Job that’s like massive tragedy. And then what’s the deal? God kind of thing. And honestly, you can’t read this book without feeling both of those things.

Ryan:
Yeah, I actually, when I read, especially what we’re about to read, there’s a feeling of terror that comes over me, that this could happen to one person, and that it could potentially happen again, and it could potentially happen to me as well. So yeah, very sad book for sure. So you want me to read? Yeah.

Chris:
Okay, here we go. Job chapter 1, verses 1 through 22.

Ryan:
All right, here we go. There once was a man named Job who lived in the land of Uz. He was blameless, a man of complete integrity. He feared God and stayed away from evil. He had seven sons and three daughters. He owned 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 teams of oxen, and 500 female donkeys. He also had many servants. He was, in fact, the richest person in that entire area. Job’s sons would take turns preparing feasts in their homes, and they would also invite their three sisters to celebrate with them. When these celebrations ended, sometimes after several days, Job would purify his children. He would get up early in the morning and offer a burnt offering for each of them. For Job said to himself, perhaps my children have sinned and have cursed God in their hearts. This was Job’s regular practice. One day, the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the Lord. And the accuser, Satan, came with them. Where have you come from? The Lord asked Satan. Satan answered the Lord. I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on. Then the Lord asked Satan, have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless, a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil. Satan replied to the Lord, yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. You’ve always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does. Look how rich he is. But reach out and take away everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. All right, you may test him, the Lord said to Satan. Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically. So Satan left the Lord’s presence. One day when Job’s sisters and daughters were feasting at the oldest brother’s house, a messenger arrived at Job’s home with this news. Your oxen were plowing with the donkeys feeding beside them. When the Sabians raided us, they stole all the animals and killed all the farmhands. I am the only one who escaped to tell you. While he was still speaking, another messenger arrived with this news. The fire of God has fallen from heaven and burned up your sheep and all the shepherds. I am the only one who escaped to tell you. While he was still speaking, a third messenger arrived with this news. Three bands of Chaldean raiders have stolen your camels and killed your servants. I am the only one who escaped to tell you. While he was still speaking, another messenger arrived with this news. Your sons and daughters were feasting in their oldest brother’s home. Suddenly, a powerful wind swept in from the wilderness and hit the house on all sides. The house collapsed and all your children are dead. I am the only one who escaped to tell you. Job stood up, tore his robe in grief. Then he shaved his head and fell to the ground to worship. He said, I came naked from my mother’s womb, and I will be naked when I leave. The Lord gave me what I had, and the Lord has taken it away. Praise the name of the Lord.” In all of this, Job did not sin by blaming God.

Chris:
Okay. Would you answer that way?

Ryan:
No. I read that, and I’m I’m pretty much 100% sure that I would not.

Chris:
Listen, I can’t help but immediately go to the question that’s on everybody’s, well, I’m assuming it’s on everybody’s mind, but it’s like, it was God’s idea. Satan said, yeah, first of all, God brought up Job. Have you considered my servant Job? God mentioned it first. And then Satan says, yeah, but take away everything he has, he’ll curse you. And then God says, all right, well, you test him. So it’s God’s idea. So God brings up the subject of Job, God initiates, and not only that, but obviously allows Satan to do whatever he wants with Job. And so it brings up the question, why does good, why would a loving God allow good, or excuse me, I’m sorry, why would a loving God allow evil? I was trying to say, why would a good God, right? Why would a good and loving God allow evil into this world? And I know a lot of times in the Old Testament, things happen and they seem to serve as an example for those of us. They’re like word pictures, right? I mean, entire nations go through struggles, you know, and it seems that Jesus and others point back to them as examples on how to live and demonstrate faith and everything else. But man, at the expense of what? Like, what the heck?

Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah. And at the same time too, you know, Job, you asked the question, did Job do anything to deserve this? You know, did Job sin before God? Yet if we read in the scriptures that He was a man that was blameless. He was a man that had no sin, right? And full integrity. And full integrity, right? And so, because oftentimes when bad things happen or when we’re going through a rough patch, when there’s pain, calamity in our life, we wonder naturally, what are we doing wrong, right? And we wonder that physically in our physical world, but we also oftentimes look to God and we think that this is some sort of, I don’t know if the word is punishment, but just result of our behavior. And this is God kind of looking through the report card and saying, well, gosh, you know, D and C and F and okay, here’s your, just reward for what you did. And yet at the same time, Job didn’t do anything. Job was full of integrity, right? And so it makes us realize just maybe how God operates a little bit in this world, how God, you know, because so many of us see God as this kind of dispensing kind of candy machine. If I’m good and put the coin into the machine, then He’s going to deliver the goods to me, whether it’s wealth or it’s health or it’s happiness or great kids or great marriage or whatever it is. If I’m good and I put it in, if I put my time into that, then I’ll get that reward. But that’s not the equation that God set up. I can’t say I know what that is that God has set up, but I know it’s not that based on this passage. Right, for sure.

Chris:
Yeah. And I’ve actually seen something here that I haven’t seen before ever. As I was thinking about this, as you were reading through it, and by the way, I appreciate the fact that you read slow. You read slower. You know, Jeff reads really fast.

Ryan:
Oh, okay.

Chris:
So Jeff needs to take a tip. Hey, Jeff, pay attention to Ryan. Because when he read slow, I was able to digest more. There you go. But I can tell you read to kids sometimes, right?

Ryan:
Yeah, right. Well, it’s also for me so that I’m actually understanding what I’m reading and I’m not making mistakes while I read. Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
So anyway, as you were reading that, here’s what I thought. I thought this. Isn’t it true that Satan often will make you believe that God’s at fault for some things? Because I think that the most intentional thing about this whole story is the four phrases that says, while they were still speaking. So in other words, it happened in one fatal swoop, right? At the same time that the fire from heaven came down, which by the way is an act of God, right? That killed everything. At the same time, the Sabaeans came in and stole all the donkeys and killed everybody. At the exact same time that was happening, another act of God caused the walls to come down from a big wind and kill all the kids. And then the Chaldeans happened. So all four of those things happened at the exact same time. And then only one servant, and they all come running, and they’re only seconds behind each other. And as they’re finishing their sentence, another one runs up as he’s finishing his sentence, another one, then another one. And so these four servants run up. And so therefore Job has no other conclusion that this is a supernatural event. Right? Which, by the way, later on, as we’re going to discover, he actually does say, God has caused, God has condemned me. God has done these things. God has allowed these things. And he does, and by the way, technically, theologically, he’s right, because God did allow these things. Right? So Satan’s not the one in control. Right. But at the same time, I believe that Satan has done this very intentionally to make it seem as if God’s the one orchestrating everything.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Chris:
Because there’s acts of God involved here in the same time. Right? And it just shows you how clever Satan is. And Satan from the very beginning of the Garden of Eden, as we read several podcasts ago, what does he do? He twists Adam and Eve’s thinking by using half-truths. Like there’s a thread of truth in there. He says, has God really said you’re gonna die? Well, you’re not gonna die. Well, that was kind of half-truth. They bit the fruit and they didn’t die right away, right? So it was like, then he says, oh, he just knows that you’ll be more like God knows you’ll be more like Him. Well, that was also a half-truth because they did know that they were naked. They knew the difference between good and evil, which was more like God, right? So Satan takes these half-truths, and he’s so clever to twist them just enough. He doesn’t come right in your face and say, like, hey, I’m Satan, and this is a bad move. He just does things so cleverly. And I view this as a clever way. He did this in such a way to where Job is gonna receive it and have no choice but to blame God, but he doesn’t.

Ryan:
Isn’t that interesting? Yeah, he has a remarkable ability to just continue to stay, and we hear this phrase, stay in your lane, right? But Job continues to stay in the same lane that he’s always been in. Calamities going on all around him, crashes are happening everywhere, and yet he continues to stay in that lane. And, you know, Chris, help me with the passage. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Do you know? Joshua. Joshua, right? Yeah. And I think of that passage just in my life, and I think of the ups and downs, and I think of this for Job as well. Like, I don’t understand why this is happening. I don’t understand why we’re going through this, but I know I need to stay in my lane. And my lane is, to serve the Lord, you know? And so I just, the example of faithfulness in this is amazing to me and inspiring for me as well.

Chris:
Well, it’s almost a hard to believe scenario. And one of the comments that I made with Quinn yesterday on yesterday’s podcast is that Joseph seems to have the perfect response. Like it doesn’t say, it doesn’t say Joseph in prison was frustrated or angry with God. It doesn’t say anything like that. The only time we hear from Joseph is when he speaks. And when he speaks, he says the perfect thing. Right? And it’s almost like Joseph is like this man who over, if there’s anybody who had a reason to be angry with God or to give up on God or to lose his faith or, you know, I mean, years and years in the dungeon, you know, being sold as a slave, losing his freedom and all these kinds of things, being betrayed by his own family. And yet he’s perfect in his responses. And I’m just like, wow, you know, and I wish it would, I wish, I wish I would know. And I guess we’ll know one day in heaven, but I wish I would know, like, did Joseph really feel the human things or was he really just that strong of a guy? Well, with Job, we’re going to find out later that he does have lamenting. He does process his thoughts out loud. He gives speeches left and right. But in all of it, though, he still doesn’t show his anger. He still doesn’t blame God. But in this moment, we haven’t gotten there yet, so I’m sort of tipping my hand. But in this moment, the only thing we hear from Job is, The first time he speaks, it is the most awesome response to the greatest tragedy that I’ve ever heard of.

Ryan:
I’ve never… Worst day ever. Right? Ever.

Chris:
You think you’re having a bad day? It’s not as bad as this. It’s not as bad as this. I mean, dude, 500, not 500 oxen, 500 teams of oxen. Right? 550 female donkeys.

Ryan:
Well, the other thing that struck me too, is it’s not only the present, but it’s his future as well, because your retirement plan, I did catch this just with reading into it just a little bit, your retirement plan, there’s no retirement plan, right? There’s no investing going on. Your retirement plan is your- Accumulated. Well, it’s accumulated. It’s your children. Yes. It’s your offspring who are going to continue to work and continue to provide and continue to build what you have built upon. It’s not just the present, his future as well is gone as well at this moment in time. So again, not just the worst day ever, but the outlook is bleak. Yeah.

Chris:
And not only is it all gone, but it’s everything. Imagine how many years it would have taken for him to build all of that up. Yeah, right, so it’s multiple children. So you’re talking, you know, you know, it’s been decades. Yeah, probably right and it doesn’t say that but we’re assuming right and if they’re all if they’re all you know, and Old enough to meet each other’s homes there. I’m assuming they’re young adults, right? Right and and so there’s a a note in the Life Application Study Bible that we like to quote and it talks about the sources of suffering. I want to just read this to you. It says, when suffering or troubles happen, do they always come from Satan? In Job’s story, his series of tragedies did come from Satan, but this is not always the case. This chart shows four major causes of suffering. Any one of these, or a combination of them, may create suffering. If knowing why we are suffering will teach us to avoid the cause, then these causes are worth knowing. However, it is most important to know how to respond during suffering. So here’s what it says. It says, when the source of suffering is my sin, who is responsible? I am. Who’s affected? Myself and others. And who needs to respond? We do, with repentance and confession. When it’s other people’s sin, the source of suffering, then who’s responsible is the person who sinned, right? And then, you know, it talks about who’s affected and everything else. The third source of suffering is avoidable physical or natural disaster. And then it says, who’s responsible for that suffering? Persons who ignore the facts and refuse to take precautions.

Ryan:
Like the person who refuses to leave during a hurricane, right? Yes, correct, correct.

Chris:
And who is affected? Most of those exposed to the cause, probably preventable, right? And then here’s the fourth cause. It says, if the source of suffering is unavoidable, physical or natural disaster, then who’s responsible? And what does it list? God and Satan. Who’s affected? Most of those present, need of response, ongoing trust in God’s faithfulness. And that’s pretty awesome to say, hey, there’s only four sources of suffering and here they are. And if you think about it, I think it’s right. I don’t think that there’s another source of suffering there. And so again, that goes back to what I’m saying, that Satan orchestrated it to make it seem like it was from God. And yet, what does Job do? He praises the Lord. It’s amazing.

Ryan:
Yeah. Can I go back? Just one other kind of comment with this too, because we’re talking about the calamity and we’re talking about the devastation and, you know, the horrible things that happened to Joe, but at the same time too, if you go back to the very beginning, it talks about, um, his prosperity, right? His success. And so, you know, and I think maybe, maybe we’ve heard of this whole title, like the prosperity gospel, you know, where, where if I am good, then God blesses me. And how many times have we heard that and maybe even said that, gosh, I’m just feeling so blessed right now. I have all of these things. But at the same time too, you look at this and you think, okay, so God, he was a man of integrity. He had all of this going on in his life and yet still the calamity came. And so in the inverse way, it also says that you know, because of his integrity, it didn’t necessarily mean that he had, right? It didn’t mean that he was blessed because of integrity. So, so it’s, you know, as we look at the negative side of it and the fallout of this, we also can look at the other side, the positive side of what he had before and realize, well, that isn’t necessarily the case. Right.

Chris:
It flies in the face against the prosperity gospel.

Ryan:
Exactly.

Chris:
Because things were taken away not because of his faithfulness or unfaithfulness. Right.

Ryan:
Right. Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. That’s good. And by the way, he lived in the town of Uz, and he was the most prosperous person in that region. Right. So you could say that his nickname was the Wizard of Uz. That’s pretty bad. But when I was a youth pastor, I used to sing, I made up a song about the Wizard of Oz. Wow. And I sang it.

Ryan:
Those three kids in your youth group must have really loved that. And two of your kids, two of your offspring were part of the group.

Chris:
It wasn’t as good as your song. My song was not as good as your song. All right. That’s so funny.

Ryan:
After 20 years, I can’t say those things to you. My three kids, that’s really funny.

Chris:
Hey, I had a big youth group. All right. So, hey, listen, that is our time. And any closing thoughts? If somebody’s struggling, if somebody’s questioning God, how should we respond?

Ryan:
You know, I think as I’ve been moved today, I continue to just I continue to stay faithful, you know, in times of trial with close relationships, when even my wife and I are just going through a tough week together, right? And there are moments where I step back and I think, okay, I can’t control this situation, but I can’t control her. I can’t move her to feel differently right now. But what I can do is I can think about what I’m doing and I can continue to be faithful. I can continue to be a servant. I can continue to love her. And so, no matter what you’re going through, good or bad, I think we continue to stay in the lane of faithfulness to God. And we continue to love Him, and we continue to be obedient to Him, regardless of the craziness that just happened in our life, or even the blessings that happen in our life, because it really—that’s what He’s calling us to. That is first and foremost. Everything else is way down the list from that.

Chris:
Awesome. That’s a good word. Hey, well that is our time and so hopefully we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.