Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Good morning, good morning, good morning to you.

Jeff:
You’ve done that at least one time. A week. A week for, I don’t know, it feels like forever.

Chris:
It’s like three weeks. Yeah, I know. That’s so funny. Keepin’ a promise. Good morning. It’s Monday if you’re tuning in live. Not live, but what, real time? Real time.

Jeff:
If you’re tuning in on Monday, it’s Monday morning. If it’s Monday morning for you, good morning on Monday. Thanks, Jeff, for that.

Chris:
I meant if you’re keeping up with the current release. I don’t know how to say it.

Jeff:
If you’re up to date.

Chris:
Up to date, I guess.

Jeff:
If you’re listening on the day this was released.

Chris:
Yeah, there you go.

Jeff:
That’s what you’re trying to say. That’s what I tried to say. Wow, Chris, that was a lot tougher than it should have been.

Chris:
My name is Chris Zarbaugh, and this is Jeff Forester, and we are The Bible Guys.

Jeff:
There we go. So we love dad joke competitions. Yeah, sure. And as a matter of fact, we love them so much that one of our listeners came and they left this dad jokes calendar on our desks, right?

Chris:
You got one too, right? Yes, very nice.

Jeff:
Yeah. Was yours as good as mine?

Chris:
I have not looked through all of the pages of the calendar yet.

Jeff:
This one is 365 days of pun-believable jokes. That’s what it says, yes. My favorite one, February 6th, says, Dad, are we pyromaniacs? Yes, we are, son.

Chris:
Oh, wow. Wow. Yes, we are, son. We are, son. We are, son.

Jeff:
That’s great. Anyways.

Chris:
Well, today Desiree has put together our dad jokes.

Jeff:
Okay, here they are.

Chris:
And we’re going to read five each. I got the first one. Here goes. I don’t trust stairs. They’re always up to something.

Jeff:
Okay. Okay. My wife keeps asking me why I have so much candy. She doesn’t know that I always keep a few Twix up my sleeve.

Chris:
Oh my goodness. I got a few Twix. Yeah, that’s right.

Jeff:
Hey, don’t make fun of speech impediments.

Chris:
No, I’m imitating Curly. I’m joking. All right, here we go. Curly. I’m so good at sleeping that I can do it with my eyes closed. Oh, that’s terrible.

Jeff:
But it’s true.

Chris:
Yeah, it’s true. It’s not funny.

Jeff:
You ever see little kids like sleeping with their eyes partly open?

Chris:
Oh yeah. It’s creepy. Yeah, it is creepy.

Jeff:
Yeah. Okay. Uh, I was asked if I could clear the table after dinner. I needed a running start, but I made it.

Chris:
That’s actually really good.

Jeff:
That’s a good one. That’s a good one.

Chris:
That’s a good one. Uh, all right. I used to hate facial hair, but then it grew on me.

Jeff:
Okay.

Chris:
That’s okay. It’s pretty good.

Jeff:
Um, where do pirates get their books? Where? Secondhand stores.

Chris:
Ooh. Yeah. That was rough. Yeah. That’s the roughest one today.

Jeff:
Okay.

Chris:
That’s the rough one. Yeah.

Jeff:
All right. Here we go. We’re like, we’re trying to like it.

Chris:
Here we go. I used to be able to play piano by ear, but now I have to use my hands.

Jeff:
Yeah So so I knew a guy His famous famous preacher. He was a Vietnam vet He was a Navy SEAL and he got hit by a white phosphorus grenade shouldn’t have lived but he did but he had really really bad burns all over his body and he The fingers on his right hand, the three, you know, his ring finger and those three fingers were stuck. So he just had a pointer. And then on the other one, he had two fingers that he could use and that was it. But his hands had gotten up and he lost his ear, one of his ears. So he had a fake ear and he could play the piano. One of his therapy things was to play the piano. So he’d play the piano and he’d be sitting there playing like that. He goes, hey, did you know I can play with my ear? Everybody goes, no. And he’d go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And he’d play it with his ear. He’d take his ear off. Dave Reaver was his name. So funny, man. He’s hysterically funny. And then all the old ladies would pass out. Yeah.

Chris:
I would have probably told that story too, because when you hear the phrase piano by ear, that would be hard to forget. Okay. Here’s the, here’s the, uh, oh no, you didn’t tell your fourth one.

Jeff:
My son was afraid of jumping a hurdle, but eventually he got over it. Okay. Yeah.

Chris:
I like the clear the table one.

Jeff:
Clear the table was great.

Chris:
Yeah. They were too similar. How about this one? Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? No. They’re making headlines. That’s pretty good.

Jeff:
That’s a good one. That is a good one. I’m currently reading an anti-gravity book. I just can’t put it down. Mmm. Yeah, that’s a good one. It’s clever.

Chris:
It’s okay. It is clever clever. It is clever. Yes. Yeah. Well, okay I give it a c-minus today c-minus overall.

Jeff:
All right. Should we go through the calendar?

Chris:
I mean we used to try to redeem the day Well, I would just do one from the count one more quick.

Jeff:
Okay, it’s like a bonus one What do you call 100 baby sheep rolling down a hill a lamb slide

Chris:
Oh, that’s pretty good. Okay. A landslide. I was thinking, uh, when you said 100, I thought, okay, is it called like, you know, like, is it something with a hundred, you know, like a Legion or something? That’s a thousand.

Jeff:
I got hospitalized due to a peekaboo accident. They put me in the ICU.

Chris:
Oh my goodness. That’s a good one. That’s really, that was a good one.

Jeff:
Well, thank you to the person who gave us these. They will, it will make my day every day for the next 365.

Chris:
That’s great. Well, hey, today we are picking up in Matthew 22, Mark 12, and Luke 20, all three of these. We’re reading these because again, we’re in a series where we’re reading chronologically and also in parallel. And this story is recorded in all three of these gospels.

Jeff:
Yeah. Okay, so Matthew chapter 22 verse 15, it says, Now tell us, what do you think about this? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? But Jesus knew their evil motives, you hypocrites. He said, why are you trying to trap me? Here, show me a coin, the coin used for the tax. And when they handed him a Roman coin, he asked, whose pictures and title are stamped on it? Caesar’s, they replied. Well then, he said, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God. His reply amazed them and they went away. In Mark chapter 12 verse 13 it says, later the leaders sent some Pharisees and supporters of Herod to trap Jesus into saying something for which he could be arrested. Teacher, they said, we know how honest you are. You are impartial and don’t play favorites. You teach the way of God truthfully. Now tell us, is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? Should we pay them or shouldn’t we? And Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, why are you trying to trap me? Show me a Roman coin and I’ll tell you. And when they’d handed it to him, he asked whose picture and title are stamped on it. Caesar’s, they replied. Well, then give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God. And his reply completely amazed them. And then in Luke chapter 20, it says, watching for their opportunity, the leader sent spies pretending to be honest men. They tried to get Jesus to say something that could be reported to the Roman governor so he could arrest Jesus. Teacher, they said, we know that you speak and teach what is right and are not influenced by what others think. You teach the way of God truthfully. Now tell us, is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not? And he saw through their trickery and said, show me a Roman coin whose picture and title are stamped on it. Caesar’s, they replied. Well then, he said, give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God. So they failed to trap him by what he said in front of the people. Instead, they were amazed by his answer and they became silent. Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s.

Chris:
So we often say that we like the life application study Bible. Yeah. And by the way, they don’t, they don’t even know that we say that probably. I don’t think so. However, there is a actual picture of the coin that was shown to G, not, not the coin, but an example. What? That’s amazing. How did they get that coin? Right, right. and shown to Jesus. And this is the coin of Tiberius Caesar, who reigned from 14 AD to 37 AD. And anyway, but look at, he’s sort of like, I don’t mean this disrespectfully, he’s got a really big nose. He’s got big eyes. I’m not sure if this is a actual perfect rendering of him.

Jeff:
Well, he was the emperor. He would have made sure it was just right.

Chris:
Yeah, well, he kind of looks a little goofy. A little hawkish? Yeah, maybe. I mean, honestly, if you look at it, if you Google this, you’ll know exactly what we’re talking about. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but he looks that way.

Jeff:
Well, I feel like an Italian can comment on that coin better than say, I don’t know, a Swiss guy.

Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m Italian, by the way, for those who don’t know.

Jeff:
Did you know I’m a quarter Swiss?

Chris:
I did not know a quarter, no. Yeah, yeah, I am.

Jeff:
I’m really impressed with that.

Chris:
Are you? Oh, yeah.

Jeff:
You like Swiss cheese? I love Swiss cheese.

Chris:
Oh, well, there you go.

Jeff:
Figures. And I don’t want to offend anybody. Right.

Chris:
But anyway, I just thought that was interesting. And so Caesar, there’s different Caesars. Of course, that’s the title. And this is Tiberius. And I also think it’s amazing that they were so amazed. So Jesus talks about money in such a way to where, think about it, it feels like it’s meaningless. Whose picture’s on here? Well, then give it to Caesar, right? As if the coins don’t even matter, right? It’s not mine.

Jeff:
He made it, then give it to him.

Chris:
Right. And they were amazed. And by the way, I also think that it’s interesting that the scripture gives us insight that Jesus knew their hearts. It says that he knew their motivations, right? So I often wonder, All the time I wonder this, did Jesus see it in the way that everybody else could see it? Or did Jesus use his superpowers and know, like maybe they were fantastic actors and nobody knew that they were trying to be deceitful except for Jesus.

Jeff:
I think he’s smart enough that at this point everything that comes to him from the Pharisees is fake. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And they’re certainly making their grandstanding here, oh you are so smart and you always give the right answer and you’re so truthful. So the reason why this is a trap is that the average Jewish citizen hated paying taxes to Rome. So Rome had conquered Israel. Israel was not free. They had conquered most of the known world at that time, right? The Mediterranean world. And so when you paid taxes, it went to support the government, certainly, but it went beyond that. It supported the elite people. It supported the pagan temples. It supported everything that the Jews were against. And then it was taking their money to do it. And then there’s just so much fraud and all those things. And it was supporting your oppressor. Right. So their oppressor was able to continue oppressing them because they were collecting taxes to be able to continue to oppress you. You know what I mean? And so it was this vicious cycle. They hated it. And so the reason why this question was so clever was because if Jesus said, yeah, you should pay your taxes, it would sound like he supports Rome and he’s an anti-Israelite guy. Right. On the other side, if he decides to play to the people, which is what the Pharisees think Jesus is always doing. They think he’s always just playing to the people. Right. He’s the king of the Jews. Right. And they’re so frustrated with him all the time because they’re always like, the people love him so much. So they think he just tells the people what they want to hear. And so they thought he would say, or they were hoping he would say, No, no, no, just do whatever you want to do, because that corrupt pagan government, they don’t deserve your money, they use it in a wrong way, they’re supporting evil temples, all this stuff, you shouldn’t pay your taxes. Well then now they can go to the governor and go, hey governor, this guy, he claims to be the king of Jews, he’s telling people to quit paying taxes. The only thing that mattered to the Romans was taxes. They didn’t care about the people at all. They just wanted the taxes to continue feeding the war machine.

Chris:
They wanted the taxes and peace And they only wanted peace so that people can pay taxes.

Jeff:
Right, that’s right. And by the way, Tiberius was Caesar, this Caesar at that time. He was famous for continuing this policy of, we’re going to maintain peace. It’s going to be strength that maintains peace. And the whole purpose is when nations are prosperous, they produce a lot more resources and then you can tax them even more.

Chris:
Right. That’s how the rich get richer. Yeah.

Jeff:
And so the, but the wars, whenever you think of the Romans being such, you know, great warriors, the wars always happened on the edges of the Roman empire. They’re constantly expanding. It’s because they had a giant Ponzi scheme, essentially. If they didn’t keep taking more land, eventually the entire system would implode. Right. So they kept having to take more land, but they were collecting taxes on the inside interior in order to be able to supply the things on the outside. so that they would be able to gain more land, gain more taxes, be able to keep the rich richer. That’s what the whole system was. And it worked. It worked for hundreds and hundreds of years. So the people hated it. And this was a really tricky question. So for Jesus to go, well, just give to Caesar what’s Caesar’s, give to God what’s God’s, totally takes away all the punch on both sides of how they thought they would catch Jesus.

Chris:
Well, there’s a sermon in there that you alluded to. You said the Romans probably thought that Jesus was going to tell the Jews what they wanted to hear, right? Yeah, the leaders thought that, right? And by the way, people still want that out of church and out of the Bible and out of Jesus today, right? They want to hear what they want to hear. And so, you know, you and I deal with that because we’re pastors. But people come in through the church doors and, you know, so on an upper level, you and I and others pray about what should get said in the 52 weeks of the year, right? And I always believe that there are things that people want to hear, and there are things that people need to hear. And those are sort of the two categories. And so Jesus often said things that people needed to hear, but did not want to hear. So Jesus was not that. Jesus said things that people, I mean, it challenged people, rubbed people the wrong way, you know, got people to understand and commit that, you know, I mean, he said to the disciples, and he’s about to say, if you follow me, you’re going to die. Right? And then Peter, for instance, still follows him. And so, yeah, he said things that people didn’t want to hear all the time.

Jeff:
Yeah, and he corrected their lifestyle. They were constantly looking for loopholes in the law. And he was saying, hey, if you just look at a woman to lust after, it’s the same as committing adultery. If you get angry enough that you would kill somebody, it’s the same as killing them. He goes beyond a lot of times. He ratchets things up, talking about motives now, whereas they had viewed their entire faith system being built around just obedience or disobedience. And now he’s questioning motives. Jesus really goes after it. But I think it’s, One of those things, you know, when the Bible says that sin is like a cancer in us, right? And I remember when I had cancer, I didn’t want to hear the doctor tell me I had cancer, but I needed the doctor to tell me I had cancer because I had to do something about it. Right. Right. And that’s how Jesus did it. Jesus came in and my doctor came in. He was very compassionate. Hey, Jeff, I think I have news you don’t want to hear, but we’ve got a plan. Right. And that’s what Jesus did. Jesus didn’t come in and say, oh, you bunch of bums, you bunch of sinners. Jesus said, hey, I got some things you don’t want to hear, but I’ve got a plan.

Chris:
And by the way, you’re cancer-free for how many years now?

Jeff:
Yeah, three years. So I have some more tests coming up, but yeah, it’s really good, right? So thank God we got in time. Thank God this doctor came in. I got bad news, right? That’s a jarring thing, but I’ve got a plan. Let’s do this. And it worked. And so I think that that’s what Jesus does, but the Pharisees and their religious leaders, because they did constantly try to pander to the people, they project, you tend to project what you do on others and you project your motives on others sometimes. And so because they were constantly trying to manipulate the people, they just assumed that’s what Jesus was doing was manipulating the people better than they were.

Chris:
Yeah. Right. Have you ever told something to somebody that they didn’t want to hear? And it’s based on biblical truth. It’s based on sort of maybe challenging them. And then they respond by saying, don’t judge me. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jeff:
Dude, I’m not judging you.

Chris:
Isn’t that one of the most common things in this world today? Yeah. So, so, you know, in, in a loving context relationship, I could sit my brother down, for instance, I’m just hypothetically saying, which I’ve done this in the past, by the way, you know, and, and, uh, and set them down. Hey, listen, I want to challenge you. I see, I see this is happening in your life. This is not a good thing. Right. And then, and then if they respond with, don’t judge me, It’s like, wait a minute, I’m not judging you. I’m actually, you know, challenging you in the way that God asks us, which by the way, side note, since I brought it up, we’re supposed to, as Christians, lovingly judge insiders. But the Bible tells us that we’re not supposed to judge those outside the church.

Jeff:
Paul literally uses those words in Corinthians, right? Which we have an entire podcast on that idea from several months ago. Yeah, he does. Jesus says, you know, by their fruit you will know them. Right. So you don’t have to be judgmental while you’re looking at the fact that the fruit somebody’s putting out, they claim to be an orange tree, but they’re putting out bananas. Well, there’s something wrong there. That’s not being judgmental. You’re claiming one thing, you’re putting something else out. And in that case then, if you really love that person, you’re willing to have a conversation about it and lovingly try to correct. If they refuse it, hey, that’s that. So, you know, at the core of this passage, Jesus is identifying the fact that we have two responsibilities. We’re citizens of this world and we’re citizens of heaven, right? So we have a responsibility to our government and then we also have a responsibility to heaven. When those two conflict, we know in the book of Acts, John says, you know, we’ll obey God rather than man, right? But in this instance, Jesus is acknowledging, hey, governments are necessary. They’re a thing that happen. You should, you know, maintain your responsibility as a citizen of your nation. But I would say this, for Americans, here’s a little, here’s an interesting thing. In America, Chris, who is Caesar?

Chris:
In America, we are Caesar.

Jeff:
We are Caesar. That’s right. If you ask them, I’ve asked so many people this question and they always go, Oh, the president is Caesar. No, not in America. Right. It’s not the 500 and some odd representatives and justices and, you know, administrative people. It’s, it’s not them. It’s us. We are Caesar. And so in this situation, then you and I have to be, because of your vote, because of the influence and the power that you have as a free citizen, relatively free citizen, and the relative power of your vote, then you have to use your power judiciously in the same way that, in this situation, Tiberius Caesar was a pretty good guy. You know, the note says his administration was characterized by wisdom, intelligence, prudence, and duty. Nice. And he did a great job leading the empire at that time. It was a peaceful time, it was a prosperous time. And it’s in that context that Jesus said, let Caesar do Caesar’s thing. Well, you and I, we’re citizens of heaven. We should be doing the work of God, but we are also Caesar in our country and we have to leverage our ability to influence the movement and the direction of our nation. We have to do it biblically and godly, in a godly way, using prudence and wisdom and duty and all those kinds of things. So in our situation, he’s talking directly to you and me. And we’re one of the few peoples in history that have the kind of power that he’s talking about here.

Chris:
That’s awesome. There’s a note in the Bible here that says, Jesus avoided this trap by showing that we have dual citizenship. And then, which you already talked about, and then it references 1 Peter 2.17, So I looked it up in the NLT version and it says, respect everyone and love the family of believers, fear God and respect the King. Oh yeah. Right. So it’s talking about that same thing. It’s talking about we’re citizens of heaven and we’re citizens of the earth. Right. That’s right. That’s neat. So any, any last parting thoughts? I would say, are people going to listen to this podcast and have questions about their own taxes? Like, I mean, you know, it’s, by the way, it’s tax season, isn’t it? Yeah, it sure is. Yeah. So taxes are coming up.

Jeff:
Yeah. I think, um, you know, the more educated you are, the better you are at managing your, the more educated about taxes that you are, the better, the more educated you are as to what you need to pay and what you shouldn’t pay. I don’t think you should pay any more than you have to pay. Right. Right. And then I think that you need to leverage your vote and your influence so that your taxes are used for better things.

Chris:
And then, and then what about cheating people out of it? What about cheating on your taxes?

Jeff:
Well, Jesus is against it. He’s not for it.

Chris:
That’d be lying. That’s right.

Jeff:
Well, give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s.

Chris:
That’s right. That’s right.

Jeff:
That’s right. And, and so our government is all about we the people, but we should be giving our money and, you know, a portion of our resources to the benefit of the people. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. Well, that’s a, that’s, it looks like that’s about our time. So hopefully we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.