Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Hey, welcome to the Bible Guys. I’m Chris, this is Jeff, and we are glad that you joined us.

Jeff:
Absolutely. This is going to be a good episode. You picked a good day.

Chris:
Yes, and you know what? It isn’t just because of the scripture, because that wins, but it’s also because of our riveting segment.

Jeff:
This segment is, well, it’s going to be a challenge. Did you look at it already? Not really. It’s one must go. Yes. And so we have two options that are going to be presented, and you have to decide which one stays and which one goes forever.

Chris:
Can we establish whether it’s for the world or whether it’s just for the other person?

Jeff:
I think, okay, let’s say it’s for the world. Okay, that’s good. You want to say it’s for the world? Yeah, I do. But the catch is that we’re doing the answer for the other person.

Chris:
Oh, then let’s keep it to the person then.

Jeff:
Oh, just to the person. You never ever get this again. Yes. Okay, you specifically?

Chris:
Like the whole world can enjoy it, but you will never enjoy it.

Jeff:
So what we’re supposed to be doing is guessing what the other person would guess, would choose. Does that make sense?

Chris:
Oh, I was interpreting it as guessing for the other person.

Jeff:
Right. What we’re doing is we’re guessing what the other one would choose.

Chris:
If I were to say hamburgers or tacos, I would say Jeff would rather have hamburgers for the rest of his life than tacos.

Jeff:
That’s right.

Chris:
That’s what we’re doing. But hang on, hang on. This is important now.

Jeff:
Because now you’re thinking about punishing me, aren’t you?

Chris:
Or if you want to make it for the whole world, then I would have to interpret it as not just Jeff’s experience, but am I guessing what Jeff would guess for the world?

Jeff:
Yeah.

Chris:
Or am I just guessing what Jeff would guess for Jeff?

Jeff:
So we’ve already had this conversation. I know.

Chris:
I know. Which is why it’s important. Let’s establish it up front, buddy.

Jeff:
So I would say these are for us. What would we prefer? I agree. How the world to work from now on.

Chris:
I agree. I agree. Okay, so here we go. Okay, so the first one is Lord of the Rings or Star Wars Okay, that’s an easy one for both of us. I think I I want to say yes, I think I’m I think I know how easy it is.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah So you you would choose Star Wars to last forever. Yes, because you can’t stand Lord of the Rings and I would choose Lord of the Rings because I

Chris:
Because you love Lord of the Rings?

Jeff:
I love Lord of the Rings. Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
You read the books and love it.

Jeff:
I read the book. I read the entire trilogy of the Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Six or seven times. I read the Hobbit eight times. Wow.

Chris:
Yeah. So, yeah. So, so that was good. When you said how easy it was going to be, I was like, I hope you were thinking what I’m thinking. Yeah. And by the way, Lord of the Rings,

Jeff:
You know my only problem was so actually we were getting rid of one So for you the one that so it’s called one must go. Oh, yeah, so I just accidentally got rid of Star Wars for you forever now Sorry so so the one that has to go the one that has to go for you Yes is Lord of the Rings because you choose Star Wars and the one that would have to go for me is Star Wars because I would choose

Chris:
And just to be clear, I’ve never read Lord of the Rings, and I realize that if I would have read it, the movies would have been ten times better for me. Yes. Or if you paid attention. No. No.

Jeff:
Go online. I just rewatched them. Go online. I know. Online’s full of dumb people. I don’t pay attention to comments. Well, I must be dumb. So all you do is watch it.

Chris:
Because I agree with every major critique of Lord of the Rings.

Jeff:
Well, you didn’t pay attention.

Chris:
It was too hard to follow.

Jeff:
Yeah. There’s a ring that has to be destroyed. It’s not that hard, dude. I hate to ruin it for you. There’s a bad guy. There’s a bad guy and some good guys. And the good guys are gonna try to destroy this ring. It’s not real complex.

Chris:
Slow down, Copernicus.

Jeff:
And I hope I didn’t ruin the movie for everybody else. Okay. I just watched all those movies on the airplanes. I’m sure you did. I’ve been in the plane 60 hours in the last 30 days. And so I’ve watched all those movies again. All right, here we go.

Chris:
So the next one is Chinese food or Mexican food. Which one would Jeff rather get rid of?

Jeff:
It must go.

Chris:
It must go. I’m going to say you would rather get rid of the Chinese food. You love both of them. Yes. But you cannot do without Mexican food.

Jeff:
That’s correct. Okay. And I would say the same for you. That is correct. Okay. There you go. Yay.

Chris:
We’re two for two, buddy.

Jeff:
Okay. Okay. All right, so the next one is, which one must go? The office or Seinfeld? This is tough. I would say that you would say Seinfeld must go.

Chris:
Yes, I agree. And this is tough, but I’m, see, I don’t ever recall you quoting Seinfeld, but I don’t know if you’re a true blue office person either. So there’s a part of me… I don’t really do a lot of TV or movie quotes. I know, I know, I know. But there’s a part of me, I’m going to play this out here, there’s a part of me that thinks that you would rather the office to go because Seinfeld was so clever and influential in culture. So like we have actually like terms that we use, like when they say double dip a chip, Like, oh, don’t double dip. Well, that came from Seinfeld. And then there’s other things as well, isms. There’s a bunch of isms that really affected our culture from Seinfeld. You know what? Now that I’m talking out loud, I’m going to say that that’s what you would choose. You’re going to say the office must go and you would choose Seinfeld because of the cleverness of it.

Jeff:
That’s correct. Awesome. That is correct. And you would choose Seinfeld must go because of the office. Because the office is amazing. So the office didn’t have the same kind of impact when it was playing. The office was rediscovered. It’s the replays, right? So this generation loves the office, whereas the office was popular when it was going on, but it wasn’t an obsession. And now this generation loves the office and kind of resents Seinfeld.

Chris:
Which is kind of like Friends as well. Friends became way more popular on Netflix binging.

Jeff:
Oh, I don’t know. I don’t think that’s true. Really? Friends was the most popular thing that had ever happened on television up to that point. Yeah, you’re probably right. Except maybe M.A.S.H. Maybe I forgot it. Except maybe M.A.S.H. Chick-fil-a or McDonald’s? Oh, this is a tough one. That is very tough. I mean, do you get rid of Ronald or do you get rid of Jesus Chicken?

Chris:
Those are the choices. Why don’t you guess for me first?

Jeff:
I would say that you would get rid of McDonald’s.

Chris:
That is correct. And tell me why.

Jeff:
Uh, because Chick-fil-A is so good. And you lived in Georgia for a while.

Chris:
That is exactly correct. Yes. Yes. I have this connection to Chick-fil-A because I knew Truett Cathy, uh, Truett Cathy, Dan Cathy, his daughter, uh, went to our youth group, uh, for a little while. And so, yeah, I’ve been in his house and everything else. And I have good friends, very good friends, like five of them that own their own Chick-fil-A stores. I know a lot about the business. I’ve been to Chick-fil-A corporate events. And not to mention, it’s pretty dang amazing, right? Um, and I would say for you, uh, there’s no competition as much as you love Chick-fil-A. Uh, it has to go because McDonald’s is the essential of your mornings.

Jeff:
It’s my morning every morning. Yep. That’s right. Yeah. And it’s the breakfast part. And, and McDonald’s got me going in my life and in my career. That’s right. You worked at McDonald’s. I worked. So I worked for an operator that owned a bunch of McDonald’s. He had a bunch. And his regional manager was phenomenal at picking leaders and developing leaders. And so in our system, you know, most McDonald’s aren’t this way, but our system, they were great at developing young leaders, you know, and so we won all kinds of awards and all that kind of stuff. So it was a really good experience for me working for McDonald’s. So that’s it. And then the last one, the last one is we have to say one must go. This is going to be one of the most devastating segments in Chris’s entire experience. To have to choose between Zac Efron in High School Musical or Zac Efron in The Greatest Showman. And one must go forever? One must go forever. I’m going to vote they can both go. So let me just get mine out of the way. But we have to wrestle with… No, no, no.

Chris:
You have to pick one. You have to pick one. You gotta follow the rules, Jeff. Okay, okay.

Jeff:
Pick for me. That’s why it’s would you rather. Pick for me. Which one would I rather? Uh, so… Yep, you’re correct. You’re correct. You have to pick one! Dude, you have to pick one, it’s the rules. Okay, no, you’re picking for me. Okay. Yes.

Chris:
Oh, that’s so funny. Okay, this is a long segment. We gotta go. Yes, hurry up. Okay, I’m gonna say your answer and my answer are gonna be the same. Okay. That Zac Efron and High School Musical can go because the Zac Efron and Greatest Showman was a little bit more mature, a little bit more impressive. The movie itself was way more enjoyable for us as individuals. Zac Efron is, you know, it’s that high school teenage-y, music-y, girly, you know, girl swoon because he’s, you know, young and had hair and all that. so I think I think that the greatest showman is is more of a Me and you show and way more me because I’m a musical guy. Okay, but I would say greatest showman can stay on

Jeff:
And that’s how I was going to pick it for you, too, is I was going to say that I thought that you would choose the greatest showman. Yeah, I would. I would.

Chris:
Just because it’s the one that would stay. Yeah, I like it better.

Jeff:
It’s way more relevant for me. So if you’re new to the episode or to the show, I don’t know, back before this was even called The Bible Guys. Right. A segment came up. It was early. It was early in H.C. Daly. A segment came up of who, if a movie was made in the inevitable, Movie that will be made of Chris Arbaugh’s life who’s gonna play Chris Arbaugh and he didn’t have to think twice about it It was Zac Efron. That’s right, right And so since then this has been a recurring joke and so thank you so much Desiree That is the that’s the choice that we had to make today. It was really funny But it did break your heart to have to eliminate him at all, didn’t it? It did. Sure.

Chris:
Yeah, Zac’s the best

Jeff:
OK, so we are in. That was so satisfying.

Chris:
That’s the longest segment we’ve ever had, ever, in the history of the Bible.

Jeff:
That’s the best. Okay, so John chapter 20 is, we’re wrapping up these appearances of Jesus as we’re coming out of the resurrection. And so he met with Mary, he met now with the disciples, but then in John chapter 20, verse 24, it says, one of the disciples, one of the 12 disciples, Thomas, nicknamed the twin, or Didymus is the Greek word there. was not with the others when Jesus came. And they told him, we’ve seen the Lord. But he replied, I won’t believe it unless I see the nail wounds in his hands and I put my fingers into them and place my hand in the wound in his side. Eight days later, the disciples were together again, and this time Thomas was with them. And the doors were locked, but suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them. Peace be with you, he said. And then he said to Thomas, put your finger here and look at my hands. Put your hand in the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe. My Lord and my God, Thomas exclaimed. And then Jesus told him, you believe because you’ve seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me. The disciples saw Jesus do many other miraculous signs in addition to the ones recorded in this book, but these are written so that you may continue to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in him, you will have life by the power of his name. So, how cool.

Chris:
Way to go, John, for announcing that, because that’s really cool. Good job, John. So let me start off, because we have a lot to talk about here, with the bodily resurrection of Christ. But before we do, I taught this passage one time, and I was doing like a deep dive, and I remember teaching this, and ever since this discussion after my teaching with my teenagers, of all things, right? You know, in other words, like it wasn’t you know, I didn’t teach it in big church. I taught it to like 60 kids. And we had this in-depth discussion about the phrase eight days later. Have you ever heard that angle? No. Okay. The fact that, the fact that Jesus, uh, waited eight days to come back and satisfy Thomas’s curiosity. So, so it says that Thomas was not there. So we’re assuming, cause it doesn’t mention everybody else. So it’s, it’s a safe assumption to say that Thomas may have been the only one who wasn’t there.

Jeff:
Right.

Chris:
Right. So everybody else comes back.

Jeff:
Or at least he was the only one that wasn’t there that didn’t believe.

Chris:
Yeah, maybe. That’s correct. That could be it, too. But either way, though, that means that everybody else believes, right? And yet Jesus didn’t come back the next day. He didn’t come back, you know, the next day, the next day, the next day. Eight days later. It never explains where Jesus was for eight days. Jesus, I mean, what else could he have to do, right? Appear to the Romans? What? Appear to, you know, find another Emmaus road somewhere? Like, where was he? Why did he wait eight full days? That kind of thing, right? And it just goes to show you that, you know, it’s not as if Jesus didn’t care about Thomas’s struggle, because when he appeared, he had this interaction with Thomas that was extremely loving, gave him a lot of attention, right? Goes up to him and says, Thomas, believe. You know, first of all, Jesus knew that he didn’t believe. And then he says, fill my, you know, fill my nail scars, fill my, you know, my side. And so he says, you know, in belief. And then, of course, Thomas has this unbelievable, you know, moment where he proclaims that, of course, Jesus is Lord. And anyway, it just has to do with God’s timing. Where is God when I’m begging Him for my answer? Where is God? I don’t need Him to show up a year from now. I need Him to show up right now. I need Him to answer this thing right now. I don’t want to look back or wait or be delayed. And it’s like, what is God busy doing? Doesn’t He hear me? Doesn’t He know about my doubts or my situation? And it just goes to show you that in those eight days, God knew exactly what Thomas was feeling and God cared and God had just as much attention and love and all those things for Thomas in those eight days as he did the day that he showed up. And that’s the point. So it was really cool.

Jeff:
Well, along those lines, you were ahead of your time teaching your teenagers that. Along those lines, the Life Application Study Bible notes for this passage say, Jesus wasn’t hard on Thomas for his doubts. Despite his skepticism, Thomas was still loyal to the believers and to Jesus himself. Some people need to doubt before they believe. If doubt leads to questions and questions lead to answers, and if the answers are accepted, then doubt has done good work. It’s when doubt becomes stubbornness and stubbornness becomes a prideful lifestyle that doubt harms faith. When you doubt, don’t stop there. Let your doubt deepen your faith as you continue to search the answers. Isn’t that great? That’s great. And so during that time, God could have allowed Thomas to struggle with this thing because everybody else is so convinced and he’s thinking, I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel. So we do know what he was like on day one when they say we saw the Lord and he goes, I’m not gonna believe it unless I touch him. But we don’t know how he felt on day two or on day six or on day seven. That doubt might’ve been exploring. He might’ve been asking questions at that point. How do you know? How do you know you guys weren’t just hallucinating? He could have been doing an investigation. We don’t know in that, but for you and me, we can allow our doubt to lead to stubbornness to where we go, absolutely, I’m convinced. Atheists will do this. Atheists will say, there is no God, which is incredibly prideful in the idea that it’s possible for you to know everything. It’s not possible for any human to know everything. So the most intellectually honest atheists would actually admit that they’re agnostics, saying, I’m not sure I can know there’s a God. That’s fair. But to declare, Christopher Hitchens declaring there absolutely is no God makes you… Your claim is you know everything and you’ve been everywhere and you’ve experienced every possible thing and you’ve thought every possible thought and you’ve explored every possible avenue to disprove that there’s a God. So instead, here in this situation, Instead of the doubts leading you to make these big, grand, strong declarations that there is no doubt, that there is no God, I mean, because you’re so stubborn in your belief, let your disbelief or your doubt lead you towards a more intellectually honest investigation. try to discover, are there reasonable answers? And of course, after a period of time, Jesus does show back up, just for Thomas. It seems like, in this passage, it seems like he shows up just for Thomas. And I really believe that an honest doubt that leads to honest questions will bring you to an honest encounter with Jesus every time. I don’t know that I’ve ever met anybody who really dug into an honest exploration of Christ that didn’t find him, right?

Chris:
Well, whether he showed up just for Thomas or not, one thing is clear. He shows up and it says the disciples were together again, which means everybody was there, but the only conversation that Jesus has in this passage is only with Thomas. So, in other words, everybody was watching this. Everybody was witnessing it. Everybody was there. Jesus didn’t acknowledge anybody else. So, whether or not he showed up just for Thomas or not, I think it’s pretty safe to assume Jesus’ main concern was Thomas.

Jeff:
And so he makes this statement in verse 29, you believe because you’ve seen me. When Thomas makes this phenomenal declaration, my Lord and my God.

Chris:
Because he touched the physical resurrected body of Christ.

Jeff:
That’s right. And so this idea of the physical resurrection, the bodily resurrection of Christ is fundamental to Christianity. There have been different heresies throughout history that, oh, it was, Jesus was a ghost or it was, Jesus was like in an angelic state or whatever. But the Bible says that it was a physical bodily resurrection. And because of Jesus’ physical bodily resurrection, you and I at the final judgment, we will also have a physical bodily resurrection, right? And so this isn’t something that would be consistent. The reason why the physical resurrection is so important is because one of the arguments was the Pharisees and the priests said they paid money to say, oh, he was stolen, right? Or whatever. And then others would go, he turned into a ghost or whatever. And so to eliminate those things, the Bible is very clear that Jesus physically rose from the dead, which means then he physically took the punishment for your sin in his body. He physically paid the price for your sin with his blood. He physically died. It wasn’t like he swooned or passed out. He physically died having finalized the full payment for our sin, and then he physically rose having defeated the consequence for sin in death and hell in the grave. And that then gives us confidence that this isn’t just an idea or a state of mind or some spiritual realm kind of thing. This solves every human condition, every evil, every sin, everything that we’ve ever done in our bodies, and God redeems that as well.

Chris:
Yeah, and it’s important that he had to have died and breathed his last. That’s what happened. It’s said in the scripture, he breathed his final breath. So it’s important that he physically died because, after all, the old covenant that talked about the shedding of blood, there’s no forgiveness of sins, the slaying of the lamb, the slaughtering, the killing, the sacrifice, that word picture, that was really set in motion, honestly, even from the garden. Right? I mean, as soon as, as soon as Adam and Eve sinned, what did God do? God, you know, brought on death and he killed an animal and made skin to cover their shame and their sin and their awareness of everything else of their knowledge. And so there was a sacrifice in the garden and that was the first recorded, you know, death in paradise from the very beginning as a payment for sin. And so Jesus would have had to have died because that’s what was required. It says, you know, in no uncertain terms, the payment for sin is death, not swooning. Right. Right. The payment for sin is death. He had to have completely died, which, again, adds weight to his last sentence, which is it is finished. That’s correct. It is finished. It is done. And then he dies. He breathes out. It says he cried out and then breathed his last breath. So that’s, it’s amazing. So yeah, a physical resurrection is, you know, it’s, I would imagine it’d be so awesome, you know, for Jesus and his Jesus powers to, to, to, to, you know, go back in that body and be like, whew, glad that’s over. Right.

Jeff:
So then the Bible goes on and it says the disciples saw Jesus do so many other miraculous signs in addition to these, right? So John said, man, I wrote down as much as I could. Later on, there’s another statement that says the whole world couldn’t contain all the books, all the things that Jesus did, but he gave us the most important things. So when you come across statements where it’s trying to drive home the physical resurrection or whatever, they seem like incidental details, but they’re incredibly important because he could have recorded so many other things. That’s what John’s trying to say. I could have, there’s so much more I could have written, but the most important things, the things that are fundamental to Christianity have been recorded so that you can continue to believe that Jesus is a Messiah and that by believing in him, you will have life by the power of his name. That’s awesome. What a great way to end that passage.

Chris:
Yeah, for sure. And I think that the thing that I feel compelled to say is our listeners who are waiting on God, who think that God doesn’t hear them or doesn’t understand or doesn’t, you know, understand the timing or the gravity of your circumstance. And you’re like, God, you need to show up. And it feels as if God is silent and it feels as if God is distant, perhaps. Just know that every evidence in the scripture is contrary to that, that God, God sees you and, you know, hey, God may not show up on the second day, third day, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh. And we don’t know God’s reasoning. We don’t know why, you know, God’s timing, those things won’t be answered. And, you know, anytime, you know, this side of eternity, but, but just know that, that God knows And it’s evidenced, right? God loves, God knows, God cares, God is with you, God sees you. So even now, even when you’re waiting, God sees you. Yes. That’s great. All right. Well, that’s, hey, that’s a good wrap up and we’ll see you next time on The Bible Guys.