Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
It’s time! I just watched the animated version of The Lion King recently. Like just the other day. I just turned it on and then my whole family saw it was on and they gravitated toward the room and we ended up watching the entire thing.

Jeff:
Which has your favorite Disney song?

Chris:
What? Circle of Life? Circle of Life. Yeah, I don’t love that song. Um, but, uh, I like the animation during that song. That’s good. That’s cool. But, um, the, uh, no, but anyway, but the monkey says it’s time. Oh yeah.

Jeff:
There you go.

Chris:
So anyway, yeah.

Jeff:
I remember the Disney reference.

Chris:
Yeah. I’ll give you a dollar. If you tell me what year that the Lion King was released. 1997. Oh no, not even close. 1990. 1990. Wow. Okay. All right. So this, this is going to be… Not even close.

Jeff:
1997 is closer to 1990 than, I don’t know, 2022.

Chris:
Well, dude, in my mind, that’s not even close.

Jeff:
That was close. That’s a whole decade off almost. It was. It was seven years.

Chris:
Yeah. Almost a decade. Not almost. Awful. Hey, so this is supposed to be… This is why people don’t like you, Chris. People love me. Actually, that’s, that’s, you know, everybody has people on both sides of the equation, right?

Jeff:
I was going to say, that’s not what the, that’s not what all the comments say, but hey, whatever.

Chris:
Don’t people are going to believe that. Stop it. This is supposed to be Bible verse or not. Now, by the way, we’ve never done this segment quite like this before. I’m going to read five lines to you, Jeff, and you have to decide whether it is from the book of Proverbs or if it was generated by artificial intelligence by chat GPT.

Jeff:
Chet GPT is the most popular artificial intelligence program available to just the general population. Yes. So, okay. Oh, this is crazy. So was it artificially a generated verse or is it a Bible verse from the book of Proverbs? Yes. This is hard. All right. Here we go. Okay. Okay. You ready? I’m so nervous.

Chris:
Yeah. This is going to be tough. Yeah. Yeah. An open heart and a listening ear are the keys to understanding and understanding is the foundation of empathy.

Jeff:
So certainly sounds like a Bible verse, doesn’t it? It’s AI.

Chris:
It is AI. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it’s the foundation of empathy.

Jeff:
Empathy is the wrong word. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. So I used to read, my family read the book of Proverbs every single night. Yes. We read whatever the chapter was for that day. Out loud? Yeah. From the time I was 13 to the time I was 18. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So empathy is not in the book of Proverbs. Right.

Chris:
That’s hilarious. That is really funny. Yeah.

Jeff:
But what I was worried about was the translation. Is this a translation thing? Yes. Cause it could be like the message version or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. Oh, that’s so good. Okay. So I have one point. It’s amazing how our minds immediately went to that. Both of us. Okay. Here’s, here’s another one. Lies will get any man into trouble, but honesty is its own defense.

Jeff:
That sounds like a proverb. It is a proverb. Proverb chapter 12. Honesty is its own defense is the phrase.

Chris:
Okay. So good job. You are two for two. Good job. Yeah. All right. How about this one? Don’t waste your breath on fools for they will despise the wisest advice. Proverbs. Yes. That’s Proverbs 23. Good job.

Jeff:
Proverbs has a lot to say about fools and wasting your breath.

Chris:
Of all the five that I’m about to read to you, that was by far the easiest.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. Okay. Here’s another one. A small spark can start a great fire, but it takes wisdom to keep it from burning out of control.

Jeff:
That’s Proverbs.

Chris:
That is chat GPT. No way. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Cause, cause that, that sounds awful.

Jeff:
No way. It’s the book of James. I was going to say, it sounds like the book of James too. The book of Proverbs talks about how, uh, yeah, a spark. Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. Anything, anything talk about wisdom is, is really misleading there.

Jeff:
Okay. All right. AI beat me on that one. Okay. So you, so it’s three to one on it. Jeff over AI.

Chris:
You are three to one.

Jeff:
Okay. Okay.

Chris:
Here we go. This is the last one. Here we go. Kindness is a seed that grows into a tree of compassion, shading those who seek its refuge.

Jeff:
That’s AI. That is AI. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Four to one. Yeah. So, so how do I trash talk AI? Can I, I’m going to go back to my office. I’m going to sit down, pull up the chat GPT website, and I’m just going to start trash talking.

Chris:
Well, you know, I beat you four to one. Right. Right. Well, you know, you know, the two of them, are using like 2021 terms, right? Like empathy and like a tree of compassion. Can that be any more 2023 or 2024 at this point, I guess?

Jeff:
Well, yeah. And that’s the danger of the truth versus something that’s truthy. Right. Right. And that’s what AI does to us. It’s truthy.

Chris:
Yep. Okay. Very good. Hey, dude, four out of five.

Jeff:
Wow. Man, I feel good. I feel bad about that one. That you missed? I can’t believe I missed it. Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, well.

Chris:
Hey, by the way, I wonder if our listeners were actually playing. I didn’t encourage them to, but I wonder if they were actually trying to guess. I wonder if anybody else got five out of five.

Jeff:
That’s hard. I bet somebody got five out of five.

Chris:
That’s hard.

Jeff:
Yeah. Well, there’s some good Christians listening to this program. Yeah, that’s true. And knowledgeable. That’s right. They know the word. Okay, well would you like to read the Bible today? Sure, if you want me to. No, I wasn’t asking you if you wanted to read it, I was asking should we read it is really the thing.

Chris:
Do you want to read it? Oh, I see. You weren’t asking me to read the verses out loud because that’s your job.

Jeff:
Well, if I don’t read them, I don’t know what I get to do today. If you want to, that’s fine. You should, you should.

Chris:
Jeff, I would love to read along with you as you lead all of us in the reading today.

Jeff:
That’s good. Okay. So we’re going to read in Matthew chapter 22, verse 23.

Chris:
I love how you figured out that I misunderstood and yet instead of just going with it and letting me read it, you said, no, no.

Jeff:
That’s not what I meant. I wasn’t asking you to read it. Because I didn’t want you to think I was trying to shirk my responsibility. I mean, I contribute very little to this program. There you go. All right.

Chris:
The humble approach. There it is. That’s great.

Jeff:
Okay. Here we go. Matthew chapter 22, verse 23. It says, that same day, Jesus was approached by some Sadducees, religious leaders who say there’s no resurrection from the dead. They posed this question. Teacher, Moses said, if a man dies without children, his brother should marry the widow and have a child who will carry on the brother’s name. Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children, so his brother married the widow. But the second brother also died, and the third brother married her. And this continued with all seven of them. Last of all, the woman also died. So tell us, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? For all seven are married to her. Jesus replied, your mistake is that you don’t know the scriptures and you don’t know the power of God. For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect, they will be like the angels in heaven. But now as to whether there’ll be a resurrection of the dead, haven’t you ever read about this in the scriptures? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the God of the living, not the dead. When the crowds heard him, they were astounded at his teaching. Mark chapter 12, verse 18, it says, When then Jesus was approached by some Sadducees, they were religious leaders who say there’s no resurrection from the dead. And they posed this question, Teacher, Moses gave us a law that if a man dies, leaving a wife without children, his brother should marry the widow and have a child who will carry on the brother’s name. Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. So the second brother married the widow, but he also died without children. And the third brother married her. Let’s continue with all seven of them. And still there were no children. Last of all, the woman also died. So tell us, whose wife will she be in the resurrection for all seven were married to her? Jesus replied, your mistake is that you don’t know the scriptures and you don’t know the power of God. From when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect, they’ll be like the angels in heaven. But now, as to whether the dead will be raised, haven’t you ever read about this in the writings of Moses in the story of the burning bush? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You’ve made a serious error. And then in Luke chapter 20 verse 27 it says, Well, suppose there were seven brothers. The oldest one married and then died without children. So the second brother married the widow, but he also died. Then the third brother married her, and this continued with all seven of them who died without children. Finally, the woman also died. So tell us, whose wife will she be in the resurrection? For all seven men were married to her. Jesus replied, marriage is for people here on earth, but in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they will never die again. In this respect, they will be like angels. They are children of God and the children of the resurrection. But now as to whether the dead will be raised, even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him. Well said teacher, remarked some of the teachers of religious law who are standing there, and then no one dared to ask him any more questions. I love Luke’s version of that.

Chris:
Yeah, well, I love how Luke is the one, because honestly, the Matthew 1 and the Mark 1 are almost virtually identical. Almost word for word, it’s almost astounding. Because honestly, of all the gospel parallels that we’ve been in this series with, there’s not too many that have matched like this. And this is not just three verses, this is like This is a decent amount of verses here. But anyway, Luke’s version is, I love how he says, marriage is for people here on earth. He includes that sentence, right? So he’s not talking just in the prospect of heaven, hey, you’ll neither be married or given in marriage. He literally says, nope, it’s just for people on earth, which is distinctive. And then at the end, they say, well, well said teacher, remarked some of the teachers. And that was actually different as well. So here’s my question. My question is, were they asking genuinely or were they trying to trap him? It doesn’t say they’re trying to trap him. So I have a tendency to believe they weren’t trying or else the scriptures would have mentioned it because they are people who don’t believe in the resurrection. Sadducees didn’t. Were they legitimately saying like, Hey, Here’s an argument, and I’ll give you one that nobody has been able to answer, because this is the reason why I’m a Sadducee. This is the reason why I don’t believe in the resurrection. So tell me this, Master.

Jeff:
It’s so impractical. Right?

Chris:
And so were they legitimately saying, wow, well said, or were they legitimately asking? Have you ever thought about that?

Jeff:
Yeah. I haven’t thought about that. What do you think? I just assumed that it was, it’s a perpetual test. There’s a constant wrestling. So in this situation, what they’re trying to do, I think, is offer a question that’s unanswerable because nobody else has been able to answer it yet, and maybe minimize Jesus’ impact in teaching. Right? I think that’s, personally, I think that’s what they were trying to do. We just never see the Sadducees actually coming and looking for truth from Jesus. So it’s not consistent with their character up to this point. And then the fact that Luke says after he answered that one, they quit trying to trick him. They didn’t ask him any more questions. Well, it says no one dared ask him any more questions, which is a pretty good… So this is my best argument and you beat me on that one. I’m not going to talk about it again. Right. So it seems like that to me, but I don’t know. The reality is. The note here for Luke chapter 20 verse 37-38 says, Jesus answered the Sadducees question, then he went beyond it to the real issue. People may ask you tough religious questions such as, how can a loving God allow people to starve, or if God knows what I’m going to do, do I have any free choice? If they do, follow Jesus’ example. First, answer them to the best of your ability, then look for the real issue. Hurt over a personal tragedy, for example, or difficulty in making a decision. often the spoken question is only a test, not of your ability to answer hard questions, but of your willingness to listen and care. And I think that that’s really interesting how Jesus, he answers the one, which is, because they’re not saying, Jesus, we don’t believe in the resurrection. It just says it in the note from both Matthew, Mark, and Luke that said, these don’t believe in resurrection. Right. So they come and go, hey, so, you know, the law says, if a widow doesn’t have any children, then the brother of the dead guy is supposed to marry her and give her children, right? But if that happens seven times, which is the number of completion, that’s why they use that, right? If that happens seven times and she doesn’t, whose wife is she gonna be? So Jesus answers that, well, there’s no marriage in heaven. Then he goes on and he says, but let me talk about the resurrection, which is really their issue. They were challenging the resurrection. They weren’t challenging marriage. So I was sitting in a room one time, I was, I don’t know, probably 22, 23, My wife and I had just gotten married. We were serving at this church that was a small church, about, I don’t know, 70 adults. We had about 25 teenagers. And there was an older woman in the church, and then my wife and I, we were brand new. My wife was expecting our first son. And we were just talking, and Bonnie and I were so in love, and everything was just an adventure all the time. And the old lady said, this passage had come up, and the old lady said, well, you know why there’s no marriage in heaven? It’s because God is good and women need a break.

Chris:
Oh my goodness, that’s hilarious.

Jeff:
Because this woman was married to seven men. She deserved a break.

Chris:
Yeah, no doubt. That’s really funny.

Jeff:
That’s really funny. And we were like, oh, that’s not funny. But I think it’s funnier to my wife now than it was back then. Right, right. We’ve been married for 30-something years.

Chris:
Yeah. And by the way, I’m going to side note something completely seemingly irrelevant. So this is one of the only times ever in the whole Bible where Jesus makes a comparison to humans and angels. Yeah. So, so it does say that we were, uh, that, that we were made a little lower than the angels, right. Right. In other parts of the scripture. But this one, it says in this respect, they would be like the angels, right. They’re children of God, uh, and children of the resurrection. Uh, if not care, if not careful, you can misinterpret this by, uh, likening humans and angels. And, you know, it’s that, it’s that thing that I brought up, I think a couple of years ago at the end of it’s a wonderful life, how angels get their wings. Right. Humans die, and then what they do is, oh, we get our wings. And by the way, I can’t even tell you how many people at funerals say, you know.

Jeff:
And now she’s an angel in heaven. Yes.

Chris:
Now she’s an angel in heaven. So side note, because it’s such a popular misconception, is that humans will never, ever, ever be angels. Right.

Jeff:
Angels are their own creatures. That’s it. I’m not gonna listen to this podcast anymore.

Chris:
Yeah, right, right. Because I want grandma. I picture grandma with a halo and everything else.

Jeff:
But that’s true. Angels are totally different beings from humans. And you don’t stop being human when you die.

Chris:
Right. And so here’s the distinction. He said, in this respect. Yes. That’s what he’s saying. In this respect. And so what is he talking about? He’s saying, in this respect, Just like angels are not a part of marriage in heaven, humans will no longer be a part of marriage in heaven. They’ll be like the angels in this respect. So he’s not saying that they are angels’ people.

Jeff:
And the Bible, like you referenced, the Bible speaks to humans as being a totally different people are a totally different being from angels. And so you mentioned the one that the Bible, one reference says that the humans are a little lower than the angels. That’s talking about power, right? In another passage, it says that we will judge the angels, right? So there’s totally separate. We’re not judging each other. We’re not judging ourselves. We’re not judging previous dead people, right? That’s not it. They’re totally separate. And the angels don’t have, while some sinned and went with Satan, a third of all the angels fell and they went with Satan. Lucifer, two thirds didn’t. And but there doesn’t seem to be a redemption process for the angels, right? They lived in God’s presence face to face kind of a thing and they didn’t have it. Whereas God offers grace to us. And so the Bible says that you and I, after we die, we will be like him because we will see him as he is, right? We’ll know him. Um, we will become bodies of flesh and bone. The Bible says we will be resurrected like Christ. We will come back to, uh, life, but we will have a new body. It’ll be a new creation. And, um, uh, so you will be, you, you won’t be, you know, an angelic version of you. You will be you in heaven and, uh, people will know you and you will know them. The Bible says, right. And, uh, yeah. So it’s, it’s kind of a neat thing to kind of peek into that. But there’s some newlyweds out there, they’re like, oh, no marriage in heaven, right? Yeah, right, right, right. And yeah, that’s a surprise because we can’t imagine adult life without it, hardly.

Chris:
Well, right. And for those of us who are married, for sure. And by the way, when people have a hard time imagining things in heaven, I always immediately go to the fact that like, well, pretend you’re never sad about anything. Right. Right. So it’s like, oh, no marriage in heaven? Oh, that makes me sad. Okay, well, pretend that sadness cannot exist in heaven. Pretend that like… Well, you don’t have to pretend.

Jeff:
Right. Right. It doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist. Imagine it. Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. There’s no more tears. There’s no more sorrow. Right? Right. So if you’re not sad about no marriage being in heaven, then everything’s okay, right? Every single thing that you try to imagine is okay. It’s like my buddy, I have a really good friend in college, I talk to periodically, he’s a pastor in Boston, and I remember being in the mail room in Bible college one day, and he goes, do you ever try to imagine, Chris, You know after billions and billions and billions of years go by in heaven he goes then then life will just Had just begun in heaven. Yeah, he goes. Don’t you don’t you try to? Imagine how boring that might get And then, and I remember like, and I remember just like being astounded that that was a thought, you know, and then of course our human experience and our logic would say, yeah, that’s right. Right. And then all you have to do is imagine, well, imagine if boredom never existed. Imagine if every negativity, you know, all the negativity is gone about, Oh, I’m so sad because I’m so bored. Imagine that doesn’t exist. And then guess what? Everything’s okay. Right. Everything’s okay. It’s all going to be okay. Right. So anyway, and then, and he was like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I never thought of it.

Jeff:
Yeah. Because you’re well, one, there’s no time. So you’re not going to go, Oh, well that’s a billionaire’s just went by. Right. Right. So there’s no time.

Chris:
So God exists outside of time.

Jeff:
Outside of time, right. So I don’t think that time will be an issue. It’ll be existence. You’re just, you’re existing. Right. In delight, right? And in pure joy and in pure love. And then, you know, we are complete. So at the very beginning of creation, here’s my little theory, at the very beginning of creation, God made man. Then God took woman from man. right? And then they need each other.

Chris:
Meaning he created woman from man.

Jeff:
Yes, that’s right. He created woman from man. You read the first couple chapters of the book of Genesis. And they need each other. They complete each other. But in heaven, we will be complete. Right? And so because of that, then the marriage element is not necessary. So I told my wife, I said, that just means we’re going to date for eternity.

Chris:
Dating is fun. That’s a good way to think about it.

Jeff:
So I don’t know that’s true. I was joking.

Chris:
I know. I know. So any other takeaways? I was just trying to think of people listening to the podcast. You know, what can we apply? How can we apply this today? I don’t know. What do you think?

Jeff:
Well, Jesus’ focus is on the resurrection. So, you know, there’s the distraction of this complex little issue, which was easy for Jesus to solve, but he went to the heart of the issue, which is the resurrection. We have to prepare for that. We have to be ready for the fact that there’s life after this life. So we have to be thinking about the fact that this life is just dress rehearsal for eternity. That’s all this is.

Chris:
Yeah, that’s a great application. All right. Well, that’s our time. So hopefully we will see you next time on The Bible Guys.