Transcription

Connor
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff
Okay, Chris.

Chris
It’s Friday.

Jeff
It is Friday, and today is a special day. We’ve never done this before.

Chris
No, no, not at all.

Jeff
So today we’re going to be reading about Jesus criticizing the religious leaders of his day. Yes, he’s a little critical of their of their not in a bad way, but he’s pointing out the fact that they are really obsessed with their rules and missing the most important thing. So it made us think about some of the rules that maybe you had or I had growing up, especially any rules that just seems a little crazy or a little over the top that maybe we broke. Yeah. So that’s what we’re going to do is we’re going to talk about those. So did you have any rules growing up.

Chris
So as you.

Jeff
Had that question is.

Chris
No. As you have so kindly pointed out I grew up feral. Yeah. Which is not true. But but so, you know, my experience was different than my older brothers experience. So I have four older brothers. So there’s five boys in a span of eight years. Wow. Which means my mom spent a decade pregnant. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Right.

Jeff
But she had a whole basketball.

Chris
Team, right? She had a whole basketball team. Great. Well, when my mom and dad were married, they had actually quite a few rules. You know, there was definitely structure in the house, right? So I don’t give them enough credit oftentimes because my experience was different because I was younger. Right. So so, you know, you don’t you sort of don’t remember much about rules, you know, before five. Right. Sure, sure. And so and then my mom and dad were divorced when I was ten. And so really there was only like five years there where I remember structure.

Jeff
And at that point, at that point, you’re ten. So your oldest brother was how old?

Chris
Like 16. Well, he’s eight years older than me.

Jeff
So 18.

Chris
Yes.

Jeff
Oh my goodness.

Chris
Well, think about this too.

Jeff
I can’t manage to being a single mom of five boys.

Chris
Think about this. Think about this. Their last few years was pretty colorful, right? Sure, sure. So so so even my memory of them being together didn’t feel great because their last few years. Right? So my mom remembers it as 23 years with a couple of bad years at the end. Sure. But in my mind I’m like, it’s just all bad. It’s just sort of. It took over, right? Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so my mom poor, you know, poor lady had to work like at one time she worked three jobs. Wow. So she was sort of gone a lot. Yeah. And then and then all of a sudden I had these hellion older brothers. And so I felt like, you know, from ten, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, I sort of had no rules. Right? And my mom was great in terms of a lot of that.

Jeff
Was that your older brothers just kind of bulldozed your mom?

Chris
I think that I think that Chucky and Donnie really challenged the process in every single moment that they lived. And it was the.

Jeff
80s, so.

Chris
Right. Yeah. And then Tommy tried to do its best, but then he became the person everybody made fun of because he was the rule keeper. And then Jimmy and I sort of looked up to Chuckie and Donnie for breaking through. Anyway, the point is, is that we had no rules. It didn’t feel like it anyway, and I would sometimes leave in the summer. I was gone for three days, and of course, my mom knew where I kind of was like, she’s like, I figured you were with Jeff. Yeah, but I call her up and I’d say, hey, mom, I’m going to spend the night over Jeff’s house. And she’s like, I figured that’s where you were, but it’d be nice for you to call your mom. But sometimes I wouldn’t call her for three days.

Jeff
Right, right.

Chris
So anyway, so my my story is I’ve taken up a lot of time here. So my story is the rule that I thought was silliest was at Baptist Bible College. They felt like they wanted to control image. And so they said you were not allowed a beard because because they couldn’t control how shaggy your beard was. So therefore they’re like, so your mustache wasn’t allowed to go over your lips. Your hair wasn’t allowed to touch your collar. Right? So they want to control it’s like it’s like Hitler, right? It’s what it is. It’s a dictatorship all in desire to control things. And of course, it’s just, you know, it’s just ludicrous. The rule. So my junior year of college, I just felt, you know, ornery. And I just said, okay, I said, I went to my dean of men, Dean Adams, and I said, hey, listen, I need special permission to grow a beard. Let’s say this. Yes. And he goes, he goes, why? He goes, there’s only one guy on campus of 800 people who has a medical doctor’s note for his skin to grow a beard. He goes, and he’s the only one. So why do you need to grow a beard? And of course, I don’t recommend this, but I broke the rule, which means it’s not right, right? Right. So I’m confessing that it’s a lie.

Jeff
Well, that’s what we’re supposed to tell him, is that we broke a rule.

Chris
Okay, so I said to him, it’s because of a job that I’m getting over the summer, and I’m using it to pay for my entire college. And honestly, even it’s so well paying, I’m going to pay my mom’s rent. And so there’s no way that you can refuse me. I have to have this beard for this job. And he said, what job requires a beard? I said, male modeling. And he looked at me like trying to bluff me, and he looked at me like this, with this look. And he goes, come on. He’s like, who are you trying to kid? And I just doubled down. What are you talking? Are you going to deny me this job? This pays for my entire school. Dean, you cannot refuse. So he ended up giving me permission. And the whole last three months of my junior year, I had a beard and got demerits every day for everybody who saw me, who thought that I was rebelling, which I was. But I had permission and I rubbed it in everybody’s face. Wow. The end.

Jeff
Okay. And then what happened when they found out that you didn’t actually pay your whole school bill?

Chris
Nobody found out.

Jeff
But you didn’t pay your whole school bill.

Chris
Nobody cross-referenced anything. Nobody cross-referenced anything.

Jeff
Oh, wow. That’s crazy. Yeah, yeah. So same thing. I mean, college stuff, mostly the schools I went to were very, very, very, very strict. Yes. And so.

Chris
Ludicrously strict. Oh, yeah.

Jeff
Yeah. Beyond comprehension. So we weren’t allowed men weren’t allowed to have a moustache even at the schools I went to. So no facial hair at all. But that wasn’t an issue. Nobody was trying to do that. We weren’t allowed to be outdoors, outdoors with a female in broad daylight. Right? So like, if we were walking on a path and we saw a girl, we’d have to stop, let the girl go ahead and take that path. You know, sidewalk between the dorms, between the dorm building and the college building, school building. If the girls are coming, we stop and let the girls go rather than walking side by side together. So your friends.

Chris
So uncharacteristically, I’m not going to say a single comment.

Jeff
Yeah. We we. So even without girls, just in order to go to work, I had to submit a pass every morning that would say I need to be yet permission to leave campus. You know, I’m 19, 20 years old, but I have to get permission to leave campus between this time and this time, and I’m going to be going to work. But I’m also going to stop at the Exxon gas station on the corner of this.

Chris
Street and this street. Come on.

Jeff
And I’ll stop off at Taco Bell on the way back, but I’ll be back for this. And then we had to use a punch out, punch in clock, chink, chink. Right. And it would, it would, it would log. Did we talk about control. Yeah. Did we, didn’t we. So there was a lot of, you know, that kind of stuff. Just managing the everyday, you know, just living life. I’m not talking about moving into the girls dorms, right. We weren’t allowed at the girls. I’m talking about walking with a girl on the sidewalk. Banned, having permission to, you know, go get gasoline for your car off campus was. Yeah. And then it was really weird. Is that kind of.

Chris
So how did you break it?

Jeff
Was that.

Chris
This is a this is a story about breaking.

Jeff
Rules. Well, I you can imagine if you’re not allowed to walk on a sidewalk. Yeah, but on Valentine’s Day, I kissed Bonnie.

Chris
Oh so that so that’s.

Jeff
That’s next.

Chris
Level. So.

Jeff
Well that’s that’s that’s next level.

Chris
First of all it’s breaking rules in the most. Like you should be allowed to do that. So that does not feel rebellious to me. So yeah.

Jeff
But there I mean what.

Chris
I did was I lied.

Jeff
We weren’t allowed to walk on it. We weren’t allowed to walk on the sidewalk together. So to be kissing one another, you can imagine. So yeah, I kissed her on Valentine’s Day and almost got kicked out of college for it. Wow. Yeah, yeah, I was forbidden to have any communication with her for the rest of the semester, which was 99 more days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So we got in trouble for making eye contact, but again. During that time because.

Chris
I was about ready to be expelled. All right, I can’t I can’t handle it. I can’t handle it. I can’t handle it. So yeah.

Jeff
Crazy rules like that.

Chris
So anyway, let me just say to.

Jeff
Have rules that are.

Chris
Let me just say one comment and that’s it. And it’s not about it’s not about your college. It is no wonder why the world thinks we are nuts.

Jeff
Well, but we’re not that. We’re not that.

Chris
No, no, no, you and I aren’t that. Yeah, yeah, but what I’m saying is, you know how one apple spoils the bunch. Sure, sure it is. No wonder the bad reputation that Christians deserve. Some Christians helped spoil the spoil the bunch. And it is a well deserved thing. Yeah, I don’t.

Jeff
Know how many people in the world currently today have any concept of that, right?

Chris
Yeah.

Jeff
So it was an issue back in the 70s and 80s.

Chris
People of our generation still still remember those things, but the.

Jeff
25 year old today has no concept that that existed or that that.

Chris
But it does it still elsewhere in the world just it’s just not so prominent.

Jeff
Yeah. Yeah. Lately. Yeah. But anyways, so it’s it’s funny to me because I don’t have a lot of animosity towards it. I just kind of kind of grin at it going, wow, that was a lot. Right? But I will tell you, it was it was the kiss that reverberated through history.

Chris
Yes. The kiss heard around the world. That’s so great.

Jeff
Yeah. So okay, so there you go. Now my wife’s going to be mad. Why did you say that? On a podcast.

Chris
A kiss? Yeah, I’m pretty sure a kiss is allowed. Yes.

Jeff
Yeah. So anyways, we are reading today along those lines, Luke 11 and Jesus is really challenging the religious leaders kind of about this idea of rules just for rules sake. Right? So here’s what he says in verse 11, chapter 11, verse 37. As Jesus was speaking, one of the Pharisees invited him home for a meal. So he went in and took his place at the table. His host was amazed to see that he sat down to eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony required by Jewish custom. Then the Lord said to him, You Pharisees are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you’re filthy, full of greed and wickedness. Fools! He calls him fools. Didn’t God make the inside as well as the outside? So clean the inside by giving gifts to the poor, and you’ll be clean all over. What sorrow awaits you, Pharisees, for you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens. But you ignore justice in the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. What sorrow awaits you, Pharisees, for you love to sit in the seats of honor in the synagogues and receive respectful greetings as you walk in the marketplaces. Yes, what sorrow awaits you, for you are like hidden graves in a field. People walk over them without knowing the corruption they are stepping on. Teacher said an expert in religious law. You’ve insulted us. You’ve insulted us too. And what you’ve just said. Yes, Jesus said, what sorrow also awaits you? Experts in religious law for you crushed people with unbearable religious demands and you never lift a finger to ease the burden. What sorrow awaits you for you build monuments for the prophets. Jeff
Your own ancestors killed long ago. But in fact, you stand as witnesses who agree with what your ancestors did. They killed the prophets and you joined in their crime by building the monuments. This is what God in his wisdom said about you. I will send prophets and apostles to them, but they will kill some and persecute the others. As a result, this generation will be held responsible for the murder of all of God’s prophets, from the creation of the world, from the murder of Abel to the murder of Zachariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, it will certainly be charged against this generation. What sorrow awaits you, experts in religious law for you. Remove the key to knowledge from the people. You don’t enter the kingdom yourselves and you prevent others from entering. As Jesus was leaving, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees became hostile, tried to provoke him with many questions. They wanted to trap him into saying something they could use against him. Well, that that dinner didn’t go very well.

Chris
Well, you know, because at the beginning, you know, you said, like Jesus criticized them and then you said, and not in a bad way. And I thought, well, it depends on what you mean by the word bad because not bad. Meaning Jesus wasn’t being.

Jeff
He wasn’t being.

Chris
Critical. Well, he wasn’t being sinful, right? Like he didn’t have malicious intent. Yeah, he was being just and truthful. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But it certainly was bad for the Pharisees.

Jeff
Yeah. It kind of kind of ruined the dinner.

Chris
Right. Well, you know, this is actually some of the strongest languages, the strongest language that he uses. Yeah. And and then.

Jeff
Again in, in the Matthew chapter seven. Yeah. We call.

Chris
Them vipers. Yeah.

Jeff
He calls them vipers.

Chris
But you know what though this there’s a big difference between. So oftentimes you and I talk about this and you always give a lot of credit more credit than I give. How about.

Jeff
That.

Chris
Sure sure to the Pharisees and you say oh, they were trying to do what’s right. They were just pleasing God. And you know, that’s understandable.

Jeff
Please, God, with what they were trying to please God.

Chris
Yeah. And I’ve always viewed it more so like, no, they were corrupted, religious, arrogant. Our hungry vipers. Right. And the truth is probably somewhere in between, right? So the truth is probably somewhere right in between. So, so this is clearly a passage where and again, it could have just been a patch of them. Right. So it could have been dependent on who Jesus was talking to. So it could be that not all the Pharisees were corrupt. Right. And maybe it was just these particular ones. But I have a tendency in my mind to think they’re sort of the same Pharisees hanging around.

Jeff
Well, the Pharisaical system was corrupt, right? The priestly system was corrupt, that people were buying their positions as priests, for crying out loud. Right. So, so the religious system in in Jesus day, the whole thing was corrupt. But I don’t know that that means that every one of them was corrupt, or even they were. They were raised in a corrupt system, and so they just behaved that way. Well. And believing that was and I think, a great way to think of Nicodemus.

Chris
Right, who is so, so kind and open. Right?

Jeff
Yeah. Well, there’s systems all throughout history. The guy who wrote All men are created equal owned slaves. Right? Right. So. So what an amazing ideal that. Now here we are, 200 and some odd years later, we’re trying still to aspire to this incredible concept. And yet he lived in a system that had slaves. And so there’s this. And he probably, probably at points in his life felt justified to do so. Right. And I think, you know, now here we are way outside of that, and we’re able to judge the good and the bad in that. But he was a product of his system. I think it’s the same thing. The Pharisees were a product of their system, believing they were taught in their seminaries. That. And they didn’t have seminaries. But I’m saying in their advanced training they were taught this is how you please God. So they took great pride in following all the rules and pleasing God. I think most of them believed they were doing the right thing, and they were indignant with how wicked Jesus was, you know, because he wasn’t like them. And so but the whole system was corrupt. And that was that’s what Jesus was turning upside down was the system itself was corrupt. Yeah.

Chris
But he definitely goes after their characters, you know?

Jeff
Absolutely.

Chris
Their heart, their intent. Yep. Right. So so that’s.

Jeff
On the inside versus the outside. Yeah.

Chris
Either this group of teachers was, you know, just a bad lot or, you know, whatever. But anyway but as he’s going off he’s, he’s talking about you know, and again this could be applied in our lives by just really, you know, the same thing that you and I just got done sharing about rules. Right? So, you know, when when you create religious rules and you impose standards that aren’t God’s laws on somebody else, that’s what the Pharisees really had. They had to have doing that so they they would have the 613 precepts from God’s law. Then they would create their own set of rules and they would say, well, you better not violate these rules so that you don’t get come close to violating those rules. And so that’s the reason why Jesus said, you don’t give you don’t lift a finger to ease everybody’s burdens because you crush people with unbearable religious demands. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So so they so they’re stacking, you know, laws upon laws, rules upon rules, you know. So think about it. Even the goofy beard thing or the mustache thing that you talked about, it was it was it was like it was like they were trying to accomplish something. So then they sort of backed up and then they created a rule about beards. Right? Right. Because because that wasn’t really beards weren’t the enemy. The enemy was, you know, trying to not offend people was probably the motivation.

Jeff
Right? Well, no, back then you got to remember. So the Bible college you were in in the 80s and 90s was a product of responding to a lot of the rules. Were products responding to hippies? Yeah. How many times do you hear preachers in chapel preach against hippies or looking like a hippie? Yeah, right. That’s what they were doing. Yeah, yeah. So it was pushing back against a cultural norm that was a little out of control. The whole the whole lifestyle of hippies. Yeah, we are, we are coming out from that and we’re being different from that. But what was funny to me, because I knew that that was the argument. The argument was we are rejecting the hippie lifestyle or we’re rejecting the disco lifestyle, right? That that’s what they were doing. So so that’s what they were doing. It’s so funny. And so but what’s funny to me was I said so, but Jesus had a beard, right, right, right. So you wouldn’t let Jesus attend this school, the Bible college I had to study. You wouldn’t let Jesus attend because he had a beard. Right? And they were like, well, if you want to come to this school, you have to get a haircut.

Chris
Wow, wow.

Jeff
Like you wouldn’t let him preach in chapel.

Chris
You wouldn’t. You wouldn’t let the guy who who were studying about you wouldn’t let him preach in chapel. That’s so.

Jeff
Funny. No. Probably not. You’d have to get here.

Chris
So so so so I get angry for the world as we all know, right?

Jeff
Yes.

Chris
And I get, I get, I get angry for the for the ripple effects that these, you know, these these this kind of mentality. So I’m not saying just your school or my school, I’m saying the mentality of imposing, you know, it says law. It destroys lives. It destroys eternities. The wake of damage that this has caused all under and which makes it worse is it’s all under the.

Jeff
Blanket of so has.

Jeff
Not having any guardrails also rules ruins lives right? Yes of course. So what they did is they took guardrails to keep us from going off the edges, and they turned them into a test of faith. Right. Are you really even a Christian? Yeah. If you don’t follow. And this is what this is what he’s doing here because they’re upset with him. Because he didn’t wash his hands. Well, was it a law to wash your hands? Right.

Chris
Right. It’s a tradition, but played by the Pharisees. Right.

Jeff
Ceremonial. Well, so. So it was a ceremonial law that it was a ceremonial law for the priests to wash their hands, to demonstrate that even at this point, they still have not touched an unclean thing. And then they could go about their their religious duties. Right. Well, then the Pharisees began to teach. Everybody washes their hands to demonstrate that you have not done anything on clean. This was not a health issue at this point, right? There’s health benefits, but it wasn’t a health issue. So then they would make a big ceremony of washing their hands of look at the fact that I’ve spent my entire day and I’m still not unclean. And so then they began to say, now everybody has to do it. This was a law for the priests, right? The Pharisees aren’t priests, right? But they’re acting like they are. And then they begin to make rules for everybody else that you have to have a rule just like the priests, all the people have to have the same rule. And then if you don’t follow it, you’re not really a good Jew. If you’re NOtrillionEALLY. A good Jew, maybe you’re not truly one of God’s elected, chosen people. That’s what they’re starting to do. And Jesus is like, what the heck? You guys are so corrupt on the inside. But you go through the ceremony on the outside pretending like you’re some priest, right? And then he’s like, you are hanging so many unreasonable expectations on the people that have nothing to do with the laws of God. So that was a law, but not for the common people. It was a law for the priests in their priestly duties. But then the Pharisees took this thing, twisted it, and made it for everybody. Is it bad to wash your hands?

Chris
No.

Jeff
Yeah, right. But then he goes on, he talks about tithing. And by the way, he says, and you should. Right. You should be tithing. So he’s not saying you shouldn’t wash your hands and he’s not saying you shouldn’t tithe. What he’s saying is you’ve taken these things that are peripheral issues or maybe aren’t even for the common people, and you’ve turned them into tests of faith. You might not be, because that’s how we were. That’s how we were treated, is if you’re not willing to go along with this rule, you might not even be a Christian. Yeah, right. You are worldly, aren’t you? You’re of the world, aren’t you? And that’s the feeling that they would make you have. And I think that’s what he’s going. So having guardrails is not bad. Not having guardrails ruins as many lives as having too many rules.

Chris
So so let me tell you a real quick story. When I was in my first church, I worked for a Baptist church about 180 people specifically for about eight years. Right. And the music director that we hired on a part time basis, he was very, very reserved. Right? He was he was more conservative in his choices. He was very reserved. He was much more strict. You know, I knew his family to be legalistic, but that’s a pretty harsh term. But but that’s completely where sort of I thought he landed. Well anyway. But we were friends, you know, and often times we sort of agree to disagree. Right. Well, his daughter came over to my house one time and, and she brought her boyfriend and she was dating a boyfriend. And I’m at my house and on my TV is a Shania Twain video. Okay, so Shania Twain, you know, had like a mid-drift on where her tummy’s showing or whatever. It was just a video and she’s on the beach or whatever, and and he comes walking in and he looked over and looked back and I could tell immediately that he had an issue with the fact that Shania Twain video was on my TV and I caught it, you know, because I kind of know how they are. But then he decides to say in front of my kids what he thinks about my choices of allowing that in my home. Now, and he said it in a way that I’m not going to get into. But it was unbelievably bad, right? Like, you know, just just, you know, and back then I’m in my 20s, which means like I’m barely removed from my, my Italian days. Right. Like I’m going to I’m going to take you outside to the back of the house, throw a blanket over your head and just slap you right. Chris
And so and so anyway, so then I just was outraged. Well, then later on, his his mother, Becky, the girl’s mother, was our administrative assistant. She was the secretary at the time. We called her secretary. Well, she was very level headed. Well, she had come into my office, heard about the event and decided to say, could we just talk about it? And I was like, absolutely. And it was the most pleasant conversation ever. Right. And then afterwards, I had a pleasant conversation with the dad and even with her. Right. Yeah. And it’s so interesting is that it wasn’t it wasn’t the fact that there was different standards. It was the fact that the way that we approached the standards weren’t like the Pharisees. So the Pharisees are the ones who condemn the Pharisees. Was the boy in the room right. So the boy in the room tried to pass judgment with a condemning sense, embarrassed me. It challenged all those negative things, right? Right. This is the heart in which Jesus is talking about, right? And so and so. I’m here to tell you this. So it’s okay to disagree with somebody, right? So you may say, well, I have an opinion about what’s conservative and what’s not conservative. Well, I may not have that opinion, but that’s okay. But let’s talk about it. And it’s okay ultimately to either persuade you or you persuade me. And those are good things. Sure. Right. And as long as we talk about them and that’s that, that should have been the attitude toward guardrails. Right? Right.

Jeff
But they were they were shaming. Yes. And they were piling on more rules. They were getting even boyfriend.

Chris
And I could say, Becky, because you don’t know their last name. They were Becky’s boyfriend right in the moment. Right. Sure. Who deserved to get taken out the back.

Jeff
So I think that the key here is he says in 52 for you remove the key to knowledge from the people. You don’t enter the kingdom yourselves and you prevent others from entering. Yeah. So you’ve built a religion of of laws and rules. Yeah. More rules even than God made. You’ve added to them, right? Like they’ve improved on God’s law and they’ve made more. You’re not entering the kingdom of heaven and you’re holding other people back. And the holding back is they have the ability to point people to Jesus, and instead they’re pointing them to rules, right? They have an opportunity to move people towards the relationship with Christ. Instead, they’re measuring everybody by the rules. Now in the New Testament has tons of guidelines for how we’re supposed to live our lives. Paul read Pauline’s epistles. He has tons of things. Stay away from this. Don’t touch that. Right. Don’t do these things. We’re supposed to be holy. We’re not supposed to be indulging in the things of the world. And there’s consequences for Christians who do all that is there. But what he’s saying is you’ve replaced a relationship with God with a religion of rules, and you’re leading other people to miss God because of the rules. And and I think that that’s Jesus frustration with them. He’s not mad about rules, right? Right. He’s mad about the fact that they’re leading people to miss God because they’re trying to tell them the way you get to God is by the rules.

Chris
Yeah. And I believe also with that isn’t just the crime of pointing people to our rules. It’s the it’s it’s clear here that they’re exercising the rules in a way where their heart is not evil, but prideful. Bad. Yeah. Yeah, bad in almost every way. Right? Yeah. So hey.

Jeff
Well that’s powerful, man.

Chris
That’s that’s definitely our time. In fact, this was a long one.

Jeff
Well, we need rules, but we can’t make them be the purpose. Right? Relationship is the purpose. Yeah.

Chris
That’s great. Yeah. All right, well, hey, we’ll pick it up on Monday. If you’re watching day by day. The next time on the Bible, guys.