Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Jeff:
Welcome back, Chris.

Chris:
Hey, welcome back to you, Jeff. Oh, thank you. Yeah, you are welcome, always. Always? Really? Yes. Good, good. Yes, I think so.

Jeff:
Because sometimes I walk in and I’m like, I wonder if he’s going to be happy if I’m here today.

Chris:
Always happy. Even when you struggle to get here on time.

Jeff:
I was late today. Late today. I should get a free pass on this one.

Chris:
Yes.

Jeff:
Yes, you should.

Chris:
Yeah. Okay. So today we’re going to start out with something pretty fun. Okay. So Desiree has what she has listed as a fun jobs draft list.

Jeff:
Oh, that’s cool.

Chris:
Yeah, so it reads this way. If you hadn’t pursued a career in ministry, what other enjoyable jobs might you have considered? Do rock, paper, scissors to figure out who gets the first pick? We’ll do a draft of three each. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. Rock, paper, scissors. Ready? One, two, three, shoot.

Jeff:
Oh, he did rock. I did scissors.

Chris:
All right. So I was quick and easy. So I’ve I’ve often said this. It’s going to be the easiest one for me. But I like Graham Norton’s talk show. They actually in London, they call it a chat show. So yeah, a chat show. So so I think that I would do well with that. And I like that idea.

Jeff:
And you like the idea of bringing in like three or four guests at a time and interviewing them all at once?

Chris:
Yeah. And then just get them to interact and just have a good time.

Jeff:
So a talk show host.

Chris:
Yeah.

Jeff:
Well then, hey, we’re helping you live some of your dream right here.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, this isn’t exactly what I had in mind.

Jeff:
Well, you’re not interviewing people, but yeah. Yeah. All right. So a talking head. That’s your dream job.

Chris:
Talking head? Would you say that’s a talking head? Yeah. That’s what those people do. I mean, yeah.

Jeff:
I mean, yeah, sure. Okay. So mine, my first one, my favorite job I ever had outside of ministry, I love hospitality. So I love the, like I worked at, at Marriott on Michigan Avenue, just north of the river, you know, magnificent mile, 1,280 rooms. I loved serving. I loved that whole hospitality hotel kind of environment. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. So that was by far my favorite job I ever had.

Chris:
Wow.

Jeff:
Yeah. Outside of ministry.

Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, I would say my second, uh, it’s going to be pretty vague, but, uh, I would say being just being a business owner in general, uh, running my own business, uh, probably in sales somewhere. I think I could find myself happy in another lifetime outside of ministry. If I had chosen such a thing, um, with being the organizer of a company that is able to get a product into somebody’s hands and meet a need and to sell. I think that if it was involved, if it involved sales and it involved me running the company, I would, that’s what I would do. It’d actually probably be my very first choice. Sales. Yes.

Jeff:
I can see as a good salesperson. Well, you’ve done well in sales in the past, so. Yes. Yeah. You’re that guy. I think my fallback job, I always say, is opening up a taco truck.

Chris:
That’s hilarious.

Jeff:
So, so yeah, that’s the, uh, I really like cooking. I like the fast pace of the pressure of short order cooking. Right. So I’ve, I’ve done jobs like that before. I also help manage a couple of, of little, uh, of restaurants and things. And I like that experience. I like the pressure of it. Uh, and then because it’s a food truck, it’s different places every day serving different people and that’d be kind of fun. So, yeah. And I make good tacos.

Chris:
Yeah. Oh, yes, you do. There’s no doubt about that.

Jeff:
Yeah.

Chris:
So that’d be fun. And then I would say my third choice would be movie critic.

Jeff:
A movie critic, yeah! There you go. Yeah, I think that I’ve had… You want to write, or would you want to be like another, a talking head? Graham Norton arguing about movies?

Chris:
No, I think, well, I’ve had just a teeny tiny sliver of experience with a couple directors talking about some movies. And from both directors, I got back a really sort of positive response, right? Where people are like, hey, that’s a good response. And so I feel like if I can get an actual legitimate Hollywood director to tell me that that’s good insight, I think that there’s something there. And it’s super fun for me.

Jeff:
So would you be writing as a critic or talking as a critic?

Chris:
I think all the above. Do you like writing? Yeah. I just wrote a script yesterday for a video that we’re doing at church, you know, and I was imagining the shots and, you know, imagining, yeah, I think I’m decently good at it. I think my last one… Hey, by the way, whether I’m good at it or not, I like it.

Jeff:
Yes. I think my last one in another life, younger than I am now, would be like an adventure guide.

Chris:
Oh, yeah. Right, right.

Jeff:
Whitewater rafting, hunting, out in the bush, camping, that kind of thing. I love that kind of stuff. So that’d be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Other than the hotel job, the other two make no money, but sound like fun to me. I’ve been in ministry all this time. We’re not making any money anyways.

Chris:
To be honest, I was going to say, to be honest, I wasn’t even thinking about the money part. Owning the old business and sales sounds like that’s a money grab, but that’s not even really what I was even thinking of. Although I’m sure that’d be lucrative if I was good at it.

Jeff:
Well, hey, that was a fun one. It was a fun.

Chris:
Thank you, Desiree, for getting us to think.

Jeff:
And we got little insights as to how Zarbaw’s mind works.

Chris:
And yours. And what he daydreams about when he thinks about if I ever get fired from… Hey, listen, to be honest, I totally can see you in a taco truck. Yeah. I totally can see it. Jeff’s taco truck, right?

Jeff:
El Jefe’s.

Chris:
El Jefe’s. El Jefe’s taco supreme.

Jeff:
You know, El Jefe means the big boss.

Chris:
Yes. Yeah. That’s great.

Jeff:
Okay. So there you go. Hey, the other day I smoked a pork shoulder and made pulled pork sandwiches. Yeah. And so if the taco truck doesn’t work, maybe I’ll do pulled pork sandwiches. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe I’ll do both. Maybe I’ll just add it on my menu. Maybe it’ll be like handheld stuff.

Chris:
You got to do one thing well. You got to just do one thing.

Jeff:
I know that’s the thing. All right. Well, I’m conflicted now. That’s what I’m saying. I take it back. If the taco truck doesn’t work, I’m going to do a barbecue truck. Okay. There you go. Okay, so today we are talking about, again, another—these judges have so much character and such personality, right? And so I hear people say, oh, I read the Bible and I don’t understand it. Well, it’s because you get hung up on the big words. Like, I couldn’t hardly read yesterday, right? But if you just get into the story, Some of these things, dude, what was it? Yesterday we read about some lady who nailed a guy to the ground with a tent stake. That’s pretty interesting, right? So the Bible is very interesting. And if you can then learn and go look at the story and go, how does this apply to me? Or what principle can I draw out that applies to me? Well, then it becomes very dynamic, very exciting. So the characters, especially through the book of Judges, are so dynamic and they do such incredible things and God does amazing things through them. And here’s another one. His name’s Gideon. And again, one of my favorite stories to tell. So we’re going to start off in verse 11 of Judges chapter 6. We’re going to read a few verses here. It says, Then the angel of the Lord came and sat beneath the great tree at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash of the clan of Ebeezer. Gideon, son of Joash, was threshing wheat at the bottom of the winepress to hide the grain from the Midianites. The angel of the Lord appeared to him and said, Mighty hero, the Lord is with you. “‘Sir,’ Gideon replied, “‘if the Lord is with us, “‘why has all this happened to us? “‘Where are all the miracles “‘our ancestors told us about? “‘Didn’t they say the Lord has brought us “‘up out of Egypt? “‘But now the Lord has abandoned us “‘and handed us over to the Midianites.’ “‘Then the Lord turned to him and said, “‘Go with the strength you have “‘and rescue Israel from the Midianites. “‘I’m sending you.’ “‘But Lord,’ Gideon replied, “‘how can I rescue Israel? “‘My clan is the weakest in the whole tribe of Manasseh, “‘and I’m the least in my entire family.’ The Lord said to him, I will be with you, and you will destroy the Midianites as if you were fighting against one man. Gideon replied, if you are truly going to help me, show me a sign to prove that it is really the Lord speaking to me. Don’t go away until I come back and bring my offering to you. He answered, I will stay here until you return. Gideon hurried home. He cooked the young goat and with a basket of flour, he baked some bread without yeast. And then carrying the meat in a basket and the broth in a pot, he brought them out and presented them to the angel who was under the great tree. The angel of God said to him, place the meat and the unleavened bread on this rock and pour the broth over it. Gideon did as he was told. And then the angel of the Lord touched the meat and bread with the tip of the staff in his hand and fire flamed up from the rock and consumed all he had brought. The angel of the Lord disappeared. When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the Lord, he cried out, O sovereign Lord, I’m doomed. I’ve seen the angel of the Lord face to face. It’s all right, the Lord replied. Do not be afraid. You will not die. And Gideon built an altar to the Lord there and named it Yahweh Shalom, which means the Lord is peace. The altar remains in Ofra in the land of the clan of Abiezar to this day. Abiezar to this day. That night, the Lord said to Gideon, take the second bull from your father’s herd, the one that is seven years old. Pull down your father’s altar to Baal and cut down the Asherah pole standing beside it. Then build an altar to the Lord your God here on this hilltop sanctuary, laying the stones carefully. Sacrifice the bull as a burnt offering on the altar, using as fuel the wood of the Asherah pole you cut down. So Gideon took ten of his servants and did as the Lord had commanded, but he did it at night because he was afraid of the other members of his father’s household and the people of the town. Early the next morning, as the people of the town began to stir, someone discovered that the altar of Baal had been broken down and that the asherah pole beside it had been cut down. In their place a new altar had been built, and on it were the remains of the bull that had been sacrificed. The people said to each other, Who did this? And after asking around and making a careful search, they learned that it was Gideon, the son of Joash. Bring out your son, the men of the town demanded of Joash. He must die for destroying the altar of Baal and for cutting down the Asherah pole. But Joash shouted to the mob that confronted him, why are you defending Baal? Will you argue his case? Whoever pleads his case will be put to death by morning. If Baal truly is a god, let him defend himself and destroy the one who broke down his altar. From then on, Gideon was called Jerob Baal, which means let Baal defend himself because he broke down Baal’s altar. Soon afterward, the armies of Midian, Amalek, and the people of the east formed an alliance against Israel and crossed the Jordan, camping in the valley of Jezreel. Then the Spirit of the Lord took possession of Gideon. He blew a ram’s horn as a call to arms, and the men of the clan of Abiezar came to him. And he also sent messengers throughout Manasseh, Asher, Zebulun, and Naphtali, summoning their warriors, and all of them responded. Then Gideon said to God, if you are truly going to use me to rescue Israel as you promised, prove it to me in this way. I’ll put a wool fleece on the threshing floor tonight, and if the fleece is wet with dew in the morning, but the ground is dry, then I’ll know that you are going to help me rescue Israel as you promised. And that is just what happened. When Gideon got up early the next morning, he squeezed the fleece and wrung out a whole bowl full of water. Then Gideon said to God, please don’t be angry with me, but let me make one more request. Let me use the fleece for one more test. This time, let the fleece remain dry while the ground around it is wet with dew. So that night, God did as Gideon asked. The fleece was dry in the morning, but the ground was covered with dew. So let’s just decide tomorrow we’re going to do the rest of Gideon’s story. Well, sure we are. Defeating the Midianites. Well, yeah. We weren’t, we were skipping on to another one, but let’s deal with the first half.

Chris:
Oh, that’s crazy.

Jeff:
Of him setting up.

Chris:
If we didn’t read Gideon, I would be outraged.

Jeff:
Well, we’re reading Gideon, but you know, the big battle, big battle’s coming.

Chris:
Yeah.

Jeff:
The details of the battle are epic. So we won’t reference the battle much today, but let’s stick with this testing God thing.

Chris:
So the first, The first thing that stands out to my mind is, you know, he said, the Lord is with you. And then Gideon immediately says, how can the Lord be with me if bad things around me are still happening? Yeah. And so, you know, and yet at the same time, That one verse, there’s a sermon in there somewhere, isn’t there? Because sometimes we feel as if God has abandoned us. God hasn’t answered our prayer. The bad things in our lives aren’t going away. We go through tragedy. And, you know, and yet if God were to appear in the room, he would say, well, God is with you. And we would say, well, there’s no way that God is with us, you know? Yeah. I think sometimes in our heart, we believe, no, in our head, we know that God is with us, but in our heart, we feel like, He’s not. And so that’s what people pray for. They pray that they would feel peace. They pray that they would feel God’s presence. And they’d say, I just can’t feel God being there. And in his case, it was the midst of actual oppression from the Midianites. So anyway, it’s just, it’s just a great encouragement to help us realize that, you know, God promises to us as Christians, he will never leave us. He’ll never forsake us. God doesn’t promise an easy life, but he does promise through every single thing we go through, he’s going to walk beside us and be with us every step of the way. Right.

Jeff:
One of the themes in the book of Judges, which we didn’t read this time, but if we’d gone back to verse one in the chapter, it says the Israelites did evil on the side of the Lord. Right. Right. So the Lord handed them over to the Midianites. So this is a theme. They honor God. You know, they followed Deborah for 40 years. Right. They honored God, held back, then she dies and they immediately go back to worshiping Baal and putting up a share of poles. Right. And so bail represents power and fertility. The Asherah pole also represented fertility. It basically, they would, they would always shift. They would shift away from honoring God into some kind of sex cult again. And so they go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

Chris:
The Asherah poles were phallic symbols.

Jeff:
Yeah, yeah. And so this is what’s happened. They’ve gone back. And so there’s a really amazing note for verse 13 in the Life Application Study Bible. It says, Gideon questioned God about the problems he and his nation faced and about God’s apparent lack of help. What he didn’t acknowledge was the fact that the people had brought calamity upon themselves when they decided to disobey and neglect God. How easy it is to overlook personal accountability and blame our problems on God and others. Unfortunately, this does not solve our problems. It brings us no closer to God, and it escorts us to the very edge of rebellion and backsliding. When problems come, the first place to look is within. Our immediate response should be confession to God of sins that may have created our problems. So where we have Gideon, who doesn’t seem to be a guy who is actively working against God, his family was. His family had an altar to Baal, had an Asherah pole. This is what God said is, Hey, if I’m going to use you, go tear down that, that altar, go get rid of that Asherah pole, and then I’ll use you. Right? So this is something that has permeated all of the culture, including even Gideon’s own family. And there’s consequences to going against God. Right. And so I think a lot of times people play the victim, like somehow God’s a bully instead of acknowledging, man, my own decisions have brought me to this point.

Chris:
Yeah, many times that’s the case.

Jeff:
I had a person not long ago come and weep and ask me, why did God take my wife away from me? After we just talked about, he had just got caught in his, well, in multiple affairs. I’m like, I’m not sure God took your wife away from you. That’s what I told him. I said, dude, don’t let me be a jerk. I’m not being a jerk. But as your friend, let me call it as I see it. God did not go, I’m going to take your wife away from you. Your bad choices broke her heart and ruined your relationship. That’s what happened. So you’re blaming God, like somehow God could have stopped this should that you deserve to have God supernaturally intervene and stop this as opposed to acknowledging my sin destroyed everything that’s important to me. And I said, dude, you have no hope moving forward in a successful life until you step back and accept your own responsibility. He sat there, cried. This was quite some time ago, cried for quite a while. And I went, you’re right. And then thanked me. He said, I needed somebody to be honest with me and tell me, because I’m willing to blame everybody else. He said, that’s been the habit of my life. I blame everybody else for my problems instead of accepting myself.

Chris:
Oh, wow. So the second thing that I was observing, too, in this story, because there’s so much in here, is that he says, isn’t it interesting how he says, my clan is the smallest among all the clans and I’m the smallest among my family. So God chose the smallest clan and then the least insignificant person from an insignificant family. So Gideon has grown up to have this view of himself as obviously somebody who’s not a great war hero, because you know, You know, so we grew up reading the King James Version. And what does he say? He says, Gideon, thou mighty man of valor. Mighty man of valor. And he’s like, and Gideon’s like, what? He’s like, I think you’re talking to the wrong guy. Right? I don’t know who you’re looking at, but that’s not me. And we all know that at the end, Gideon becomes a mighty man of valor. Sure. After the big victory, you know, people in history will have looked back.

Jeff:
Well, you just gave it away. Well, we told him there’s going to be a battle. We didn’t tell who wins.

Chris:
Oh, yeah, that’s right. Gideon dies. That’s not what happens. The children of Israel burn. That’s not what happens either. But so anyway, yeah, he becomes a mighty man of valor. So it reminds me then of, you know, Jesus, when he looks at Peter and he says, your name shall be Cephas or, you know, Rock, right? Peter. But yet when Jesus told Peter that his name was going to be the rock, or the stone really, it was a stone that you hold in your hand, his life wasn’t really rock-like yet. But eventually, Peter, especially through the book of Acts, he becomes a solid rock. You know, and it’s because God sees in us greatness before we see it in ourselves. And so here’s the angel calling, yeah, you know, Gideon, a great hero. What is, what does this version say? Yeah. Mighty hero. Mighty hero. And Gideon’s like, I think you got the wrong guy because I’m the smallest in my clan and I’m the least in my family. Right. That was his immediate response. So again, that’s just another thing that we can look at too, to apply to our own lives.

Jeff:
So it’s funny that he calls him mighty hero while he’s hiding in a wine press. You don’t normally thresh wheat down in a wine press. You normally would thresh wheat. They would thresh wheat up on hilltops. And a wine press doesn’t have to be some deep pit either. I mean, did you see the little wine press area in Nazareth when you were in Israel?

Chris:
I think I did.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s first century, very likely Jesus and Mary would have been getting, you know, crushing their wine grapes there. Right. But kind of neat. Anyways, you know, it’s just, it’s just a, like a depression in the ground that can capture, in rock, that can capture the wine that’s being pressed out. And then there’s usually a runoff spot to be able to pour into bowls or something. It’s not very significant. But when you’re threshing wheat, you want to be up high where there’s a breeze. Because what you’re trying to do with threshing wheat is there’s the kernel of wheat on the inside and there’s chaff on the outside. It’s like a protective Have you ever chewed on, and this is kind of a weird thing to say, you ever eat popcorn and then get the outside of the seed stuck in your teeth? Yes. Okay. That’s kind of what the chaff of wheat is, is that outside covering of the seed. So when you beat the wheat, right, so they would thrash the wheat on the thing. what it would do is begin to separate that outside part of the kernel and it’s really light and so the grain would fall because it’s heavy and the chaff would blow away, oops, would blow away if you had a reasonable breeze. So you’re always up in the higher places. But he’s afraid of the Midianites. The Midianites are a bunch of roving bandits running around and so he doesn’t want to be visible. And so he’s hiding and God shows up and says, hey, mighty man of valor. While he’s hiding from the Midianites and God sees in him what he doesn’t see in himself.

Chris:
I almost wonder if he’s hiding because had they seen him, you know, thrashing wheat, they would take his wheat.

Jeff:
Exactly. So he’s not out there challenging the Midianites. He’s not out there going, I don’t give a rip what you guys think. I’m going to go ahead and live my life. That’s not what he’s doing. He’s hiding. He’s hiding in places they can’t see him. And his work is harder because of it. Oh, way harder. Because of his lack of courage to be out, you know, where there’s a breeze. Instead of being down in the wine press, his work is much harder. And you got to know in his mind, there’s a little bit of defeatism, right? He made the choice not to do the job where he should have done it, where it would have been easier. So now the job is harder. Have you ever done a job and you know that the decision you made made the job harder, but you have some reason why it has to be harder, right? So he’s, you know it and you’re thinking it through. I think he knows, I’m such a loser. And that’s when the angel of the Lord shows up and goes, Hey, mighty hero.

Chris:
Wow. Well, that’s, that’s a pretty, to be honest, that’s a little bit of a harsher perspective than I was thinking.

Jeff:
I was thinking he was… Well, when you’re hiding, you’re not being courageous. Well, for sure. And I think that there’s a little bit of tongue in cheek here when he calls him mighty warrior.

Chris:
No, no. Everything you’re saying, I agree with, but, but except for the fact that like, maybe, maybe that’s exactly what you would have done or what I would have done. Absolutely. Because, because maybe it’s a known fact that, you know, there’s about a 90% chance that if you’re going to thresh weed on top of that hill, you’re not going to have weed by the end of the day. Right. Right. So, so it’s like, you know, and, and if you challenge him, you’re going to die. Right. That was a good chance. Right. Yeah. Really good chance. Right. Could be that way. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s the it reminds me of the New Testament when they were being oppressed by Rome and, you know, they, they want to challenge him, but nobody, nobody can do it. You know, they can’t, they can’t rise up against the forces.

Jeff:
Yeah. Well, so, so there’s two kinds of multiple people in the world, multiple kinds of people, but in my worldview, there’s two kinds. There’s the kind of guy who hides from potential, struggle, like a Gideon. And then there’s people like, you know, Patrick Henry, who says, give me liberty or give me death. I’m willing to risk it all. Sure. And I’m going to go up against the mightiest empire in the history of the world up to that point. And we’re likely to lose, but I’m willing to sacrifice my fortune in my life for freedom. Right. So, so that’s not Gideon. Gideon’s not Patrick Henry.

Chris:
Gideon’s hiding in the pit. I thought you were going to use that opportunity to bust on me for a minute. You were like, there’s two kinds of people in this world. And I thought you were going to say like brave and then you, Chris.

Jeff:
No, no, really? No, that’s mean. No, I was just joking. So for me, he’s not taking a Patrick Henry kind of a mindset. Right, right, right. He is hiding. And when you make that choice, when you make the choice to not confront evil in front of you, you kind of know, I’m kind of a sissy.

Chris:
Right.

Jeff:
You know. And so that’s why it’s so funny to me that the angel shows up and says, Hey, you mighty man, I’m going to turn you into a great warrior. And then he’s afraid. He’s afraid the whole time and keeps testing God.

Chris:
Well, that’s I was going to say, because we’re out of time, let’s at least throw a couple sentences in there about the fleece. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what does he do is he is, you know, he gets a word from God and he’s like, OK, that’s great. I want to believe you, but do this great miracle about the fleece and the dew. And then God does it. And he’s like, oh, well, that was great.

Jeff:
That’s maybe it was a coincidence.

Chris:
Maybe it was a coincidence. Do it the opposite. And so he does the policing to do the opposite. And it’s like, and it’s hilarious because that’s what we want. We want confirmation. We see ourselves in him so much. We want confirmation.

Jeff:
We want a sign from God. He’s talking to God who, when he fixed this meal for the angel,

Chris:
He set it on fire with his staff.

Jeff:
Sets it on fire and then disappears. Right. And then God’s voice tells him, don’t worry, I’m not going to kill you. Right. The same voice says, all right, now you’re going to go and deliver the people of Israel from Midian. He goes, yeah, so… How about you do this fleece thing for me?

Chris:
Same voice.

Jeff:
Dude, how much more do you need? If the dinner I just made turned into smoke and the guy I made it for disappears and then I hear God’s voice from heaven talk to me, I’m going to remember that voice. I’m going to make it a point. So Gideon is so funny. He’s so unbelievably timid. And so it’s encouraging to me that, Hey, if you find yourself kind of being consumed by timidity, just understand God wants to use you too. Have the courage, hear God’s voice. And tomorrow we’re going to follow up with one of the most amazing stories in the Old Testament.

Chris:
And we’ll see you then hopefully on The Bible Guys.