Job’s Journey: From Questioning to Humility

Episode 448

June 19, 2024

Transcription

Connor:
You’re listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and practical ways.

Chris:
Well, hey, welcome to The Bible Guys. I’m Chris.

Jeff:
And I’m Jeff.

Chris:
There it is.

Jeff:
And we’re The Bible Guys.

Chris:
We are. And today we are starting out with, oh, it’s a Babylon Bee. Did you know that? We didn’t even look this up.

Jeff:
Yes, we know. Today’s a TV show draft list. Oh, my bad.

Chris:
Did I skip? Oh, I skipped. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So today is our TV show draft list for today’s draft list. Let’s imagine what it would be like to be on a TV show, whether it’s competition show, sitcom, reality TV or any other show. You rock, paper, scissors to see who gets the first pick. Go back and forth until you’ve reached four shows.

Jeff:
We’re imagining what it would be like. So are we just like picking our favorite TV shows?

Chris:
That we would want to be on? Like, in other words, I think what she’s saying is, my brother wanted to actually submit ourselves to the, what is it called, The Amazing Race? Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. So my brother called and said, would your church let you be gone for this amount of time if we submitted ourselves to the amazing grace? I think my brother actually wanted to be on the amazing race and he thought it’d be great. I think that’s what it’s saying. Yeah. I think like, what shows would we like to be on?

Jeff:
Okay, what shows would we like to be on? Okay. All right. You want to do rock, paper, scissors? We’re going to do four? Yep. Ready? Rock, paper, scissors.

Chris:
It’s one, two, three, shoot.

Jeff:
One, two, three, shoot.

Chris:
Ready? One, two, three, shoot. One, two, three, shoot. One, two, three, shoot.

Jeff:
We both did scissors. We both did rock. You did scissors. I did paper. Yes. Okay.

Chris:
For those that were listening. So today for each. Okay. My first one, it’s a no brainer. I’m going to choose the Graham Norton show.

Jeff:
Really?

Chris:
Which is a talk show. Yeah, a British talk show. Yes, and I would like to be on the show, but actually I would like to do the hosting of the show. Really?

Jeff:
Well, then wouldn’t it be the Chris Zarba show? Why would you be hosting Graham Norton’s show?

Chris:
Well, isn’t it still Dick Clark’s New Year’s Eve, even though he’s dead?

Jeff:
Is it really?

Chris:
Yes, it is. And Ryan Seacrest hosts it.

Jeff:
Okay. So he’s legendary. Well, that just means that he, he, uh, probably copyrighted it and his family owns the rights to it.

Chris:
That’s probably what it means. But anyway, the point is, is that, uh, because every other person has like one guest at a time and, and, you know, there’s a, you know, celebrity factor there. And then when they’re done with that guest, they move over and they just talk to the new guest. Well, Grant Martin doesn’t do that. He brings like four or five huge stars out and just has them interact with each other. which is way better. So I’d like to do that’s my first one.

Jeff:
So you want to be you want to be hosting the Graham Norton show? I think so, yes. Not the Chris Sarbaugh show? No. No, not at all.

Chris:
You know why? Because I want to do it for a couple episodes.

Jeff:
Oh, you want to be a guest host. You want to be a guest host on the Graham Norton show. Well, that makes more sense to me. So believe it or not, you already said it, but of all the TV shows I would do, The Amazing Race. Yeah, I’m sure. That’d be my favorite. That’s one of my favorite shows.

Chris:
Yeah, just traveling around the world and figuring things out.

Jeff:
Yeah, everything’s a problem. It’s fun.

Chris:
Yeah. All right. Another reality TV show? Goodness gracious.

Jeff:
Is it reality?

Chris:
Yeah. Well, it says reality or sitcom or any other show. Okay. Um, okay. How about this one? I would like to do, geez, this is hard actually. I know. Um, okay. How about, um, uh, so I I’ve been watching Blacklist. Okay. And Blacklist is, uh, very captivating for me. And so I’m going to say Blacklist.

Jeff:
You’re going to be Reddington in that show? Is that, you’re just going to be a bad guy?

Chris:
You know, I can’t decide whether I want to be— Everybody needs a Reddington. I can’t decide whether I want to be Reddington or whether I want to be like, you know, a wrestler, agent wrestler. He’s a good guy. But either way, though, you know, it’s involved in things that are, you know, the whole world sleeps under the blanket of your protection, right?

Jeff:
That’s right.

Chris:
And you’re walking around just making things happen. So I like that. I like that concept. So I’m going to pick Blacklist.

Jeff:
OK. I would choose the A team.

Chris:
Wow. Wow. Just swooping in and shooting things up.

Jeff:
I love it when a plane comes together.

Chris:
Yeah. Love it when a plane comes together. You’re going deep on that one. I love that one, man. Okay. How about this one? I would love parenthood.

Jeff:
Really? Is that a TV show?

Chris:
Yeah, it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it’s gone now, but, um, but yeah, I mean, it does say, you know, uh, competition shows, sitcom, reality TV or any other show. That’s correct. So Parenthood, I liked the idea that the, even though it was, you know, everybody had their own drama and dynamics, the family coming together, they loved each other. It was always a moral at the end that was positive. It was actually super, super positive and, and family got each other through all their stuff.

Jeff:
Okay, good. I would do Josh Gates’s Expedition Unknown. That’s what I would do. Josh Gates is the host of a show on Discovery Channel called Expedition Unknown, and he just investigates legends. Yeah, it’s kind of neat.

Chris:
Huh, that’s awesome.

Jeff:
Okay, and then for my fourth one… He wished me happy birthday on my 50th birthday.

Chris:
Oh, that’s cool. So my, for my fourth one, I don’t know the name of the show and my family’s going to get really mad at me for not knowing the name, but it’s the Crocodile Hunters Kids.

Jeff:
Oh yeah.

Chris:
Right. So they have a show where they go through and they do the zoo and they’re zookeepers. Right. And they, they just, they just, you know, teach people about the animals in the zoo. And I love that. I think I would love to do it for a time. Yeah. Right. And then they come back to the life thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think I’d like it. Okay.

Jeff:
So man, I’m having a hard time with my fourth one. Yeah, it was tough. This is a tough assignment. This is a tough one. So as a kid, let me see, if I do a kid one, I would say probably Knight Rider.

Chris:
Wow. That’s going back a ways, buddy.

Jeff:
Yeah. Well, A-Team and Knight Rider at the same time, weren’t they? Pretty close. Yeah. The only thing I didn’t say was Duke’s a hazard, I think.

Chris:
Right. Duke’s a hazard. Knight Rider is definitely a fun concept back in the day. A talking car.

Jeff:
Yeah, a talking car. With AI. With AI, I know. It was ahead of its time.

Chris:
Yeah, no doubt.

Jeff:
And besides that, he had amazing hair.

Chris:
Back then It’s called it’s the Irwin’s the Irwin’s.

Jeff:
Oh, that’s what’s called. It’s the Irwin’s.

Chris:
Uh-huh. So there you go Liz You can’t yell at me now.

Jeff:
Well, there you go. I got it Okay, that was interesting. All right, that was a little little insight into our world. You know, the other one I almost said which one was get smart

Chris:
Oh, Get Smart, Bob, back in the day, huh?

Jeff:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved Get Smart, too. Yeah. The original, the original Get Smart.

Chris:
Well, the remake with Steve Carell was phenomenal.

Jeff:
It was funny, but it wasn’t a TV show.

Chris:
Correct. Correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Dwayne, Dwayne, The Rock Johnson.

Jeff:
Although I really do feel like most of my life is more like the Beverly Hillbillies. So anyway.

Chris:
The cement pond. That’s really funny.

Jeff:
Just a bumpkin trying to figure out life. That’s most of my life. That’s great. Well, hey, we are coming pretty close to the end here. Are we done with Job? No, we’ve got one more.

Chris:
This is the second to the last episode.

Jeff:
And so here we come. We’re up to this point now. His three buddies challenged Job, right? Right. And then Job defends himself. We didn’t deal with any of the defense, but Job is saying, listen, I’ve never stolen anything from orphans, raised my hand against them. I only do good. I don’t lie. I don’t lust after women. I don’t take what’s not mine.” He goes on down to this whole list, a whole chapter of him saying, I’m a pretty good guy, and I’m going to stand with a clear conscience. Elihu, who’s a younger guy, comes to Job and says, I feel like you’re arrogant. You’re bragging a lot. And then he kind of lays out, you know, God is going to be, God is a God of justice, and Elihu really spells this out, and that God is incredibly powerful. So all of these things, and then finally God speaks up. Okay, these people, busting his chops too long. So God speaks up, and this is the Lord’s challenge to Job. And so instead of answering Job’s questions directly, God asks Job a series of questions that no human could really answer. And so it’s a very, very interesting way of God engaging.

Chris:
And by the way, that’s sort of the way that Jesus did, right? A lot of times they would ask him a question and he’d say, well, if you can answer me this, and then they’d say, I can’t answer that. And he said, then I won’t tell you the answer to my question.

Jeff:
Right. So this idea of asking questions and probing an idea is the best way to learn, to discover. If you discover a thing, you will remember it forever. If it’s told you, you’ll forget 95% of it in three days. Right? We already know that. And so this is why God does that so often is if he’ll lead you to discover a thing, to think a thought, and then he’ll affirm it. And that’s what he’s doing with Job here. So eventually Job just responds by saying God’s ways are best. So here we go. Then the Lord answered Job from a whirlwind. That’s kind of a cool.

Chris:
Yeah. I don’t even know what that means, but it sounds great.

Jeff:
I think he’s in a tornado.

Chris:
Sounds like it.

Jeff:
Yeah. That’s what it sounds like. And God speaks out of this whirlwind and says, who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorant words? Brace yourself like a man. It’s time to put on your big boy pants. That’s what he’s saying, right? Brace yourself like a man because I have some questions for you and you must answer them. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me if you know so much. Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line? What supports its foundations and who laid its cornerstone? As the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy. Who kept the sea inside its boundaries as it burst from the womb? And as I clothed it with clouds and wrapped it in thick darkness, for I locked it behind barred gates limiting its shores, I said, this far and no further will you come. Here your proud waves must stop. Have you ever commanded the morning to appear and cause the dawn to rise in the east? Have you made daylight spread to the ends of the earth to bring an end to the night’s wickedness? As the light approaches, the earth takes shape like clay pressed beneath a seal. It is robed in brilliant colors. The light disturbs the wicked and stops the arm that is raised in violence. Have you explored the springs from which the seas came? Have you explored their depths? Do you know where the gates of death are located? Have you seen the gates of utter gloom? Do you realize the extent of the earth? Tell me about it if you know. Where does light come from, and where does darkness go? Can you take each to its home? Do you know how to get there? But of course you know all this, for you were born before it was all created, and you’re so very experienced.” God’s sarcasm is a little biting there, isn’t it? A little bit. He says, have you visited the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of hail? I’ve reserved them as weapons for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war. Where’s the path to the source of light? Where’s the home of the east wind? Who created a channel for the torrents of rain? Who laid out the path for the lightning? Who makes the rain fall on barren land in a desert where no one lives? Who sends rain to satisfy the parched ground and make the tender grass spring up? Does the rain have a father who gives birth to dew? Who’s the mother of the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens? For the water turns to ice as hard as rock and the surface of the water freezes. Can you direct the movement of the stars, binding the clusters of Pleiades or loosening the cords of Orion? Can you direct the sequence of the seasons or guide the bear with her cubs across the heavens? Do you know the laws of the universe? Can you use them to regulate the earth? Can you shout to the clouds and make it rain? Can you make lightning appear and cause it to strike as you direct? Who gives intuition to the heart and instinct to the mind? Who’s wise enough to count all the clouds? Who can tilt the water jars of heaven when the parched ground is dry and the soil is hardened into clods? Can you stalk prey for a lioness and satisfy the young lion’s appetites as they lie in their dens or crouch in the thicket? Who provides food for the ravens when their young cry out to God and wander about in hunger? I wasn’t supposed to read those last ones, but

Chris:
No, that’s okay, because, I mean, it’s sort of more of the same, right? But God is, you know, basically going on. In fact, I read a note here in the Life of God, it’s a heck of a note. It is awesome. It says, Out of the world when God spoke, surprisingly, he didn’t answer any of Job’s questions. Job’s questions were not at the heart of the issue. Instead, God used Job’s ignorance of the earth’s natural order to reveal his ignorance about God’s moral order. If Job did not understand the workings of God’s physical creation, how could he possibly understand God’s mind and character? There is no standard or higher than God Himself by which to judge. God Himself is the standard. Our only option is to submit to the authority and rest in His care.” What a great note here. You know, God used His ignorance of the physical order to reveal the fact that He could not understand God’s moral order. And gee whiz, you know, if God approaches you and says, hey, brace yourself like a man, because you’re gonna have to answer these, and then he asks you a series of questions that you couldn’t possibly understand.

Jeff:
Well, and he goes through this thing, so if we went into chapter 39, so he shifts out of natural stuff. Clouds, rain, the earth, the depths of the sea, creation. Then he gets into animals. He starts talking about the goats and the donkeys, right? Who gives the wild donkey its freedom? Who watches the deer when they’re born in the wild? How do you keep producing goats and all that kind of stuff? He talks about ostriches and their wisdom. He talks about the horse’s strength. Are you the one that gave the horse his strength? Who made the hawk soar above the earth? Right? All these things. And then he ends it in verse 2 of chapter 40. Do you still want to argue with the Almighty? You’re God’s critic, but do you have the answers? He’s like, dude, these are the simplest things I do. Right. This is like, we’re not even talking about the advanced concepts of God. I’m saying donkeys. You can’t even tell me why donkeys are almost impossible to break and why they run free. I can’t. You can’t. You can’t tell me where the water comes from in the oceans. I can, you can’t, right? That’s what he’s doing. He’s asking him just simple things about nature. Everything he mentions to Job, Job has probably seen. So these are things he saw. And he goes, dude, you know nothing about the things you can’t see. Because you know very little about what you can see. That’s what he’s doing, right? And it just, I think it’s important for us to remember that we can’t see very much and we can’t see very far. Right. Right. And God is beyond that. Then God goes on and then he starts talking about bigger stuff. Right? He just goes, he starts talking about Leviathan here, the whole dinosaur story, all that kind of stuff. He really gets into, now let’s talk about those things that are beyond powerful. These things that have power that you cannot comprehend. And, you know, tomorrow we’ll talk about how Job finally humbly responds. He’s like, well, you’re right.

Chris:
Yeah, and you know what? That doesn’t satisfy Job’s direct questions, because all it does is it forces you to stop asking why, and then lean into the who, who God is, right? And what he’s really saying is, he’s saying, I’m the Lord. Let me remind you just who it is you’re praying to. Right. I’ll never forget when I did a study on Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray. Probably out of that whole study, the thing that I latched onto the most was the fact that when Jesus modeled for us a prayer, and he said, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, that hallowed means great is your name. And I remember just learning the fact, like, first of all, sorry, I’m opening up a can of worms, but like, I believe that that’s not necessarily a prayer to be memorized and repeated, although that’s not a bad thing.

Jeff:
It’s a beautiful thing to memorize. It’s a beautiful thing to memorize. That wasn’t the point of the prayer.

Chris:
Yeah, the point of the prayer was this was the building blocks of a prayer. A model. And the reason why we know that is because Jesus said it differently in both Gospels. Right. If it was a formulated prayer… It would have been like, Jesus, you messed up. Don’t you know the Lord’s Prayer?

Jeff:
It appears, according to the Gospels, it appears maybe he taught it multiple times. Yes. Right? And he doesn’t say it exactly the same in both Gospels.

Chris:
Right. But anyway, but how will it be your name? It’s the idea that like, let’s start by recognizing who God is. And that’s exactly the point of Job 38 and 39.

Jeff:
God’s inviting him to go, really? You’re going to challenge me on this?

Chris:
Yeah. And so it really is relevant. This translates to us on a daily basis, because most of the time when we go to God, isn’t it true? We go to God and we get right to our wishes and our wants and our list. And we say, God, you know, thanks for this day. Boom, here’s my list. And what, you know, Jesus is modeling for us is he’s saying, start with the fact that you want to recognize just who it is you’re praying to. You know, great is your name. You know, you are hallowed, you are revered. Didn’t Job say, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom? So start there. And if you just take a moment to rest in recognizing just who it is you’re praying to, maybe by the time you get to your needs and your wants and your wishes, they’ll be less concerning to you. because now you’re just recognizing, hey, I’m in communion with, you know, the God who is. And so, yeah, I love that idea. And that’s really essentially what God is saying to Job.

Jeff:
He’s inviting Job to think about the fact that he doesn’t know very much. Right. Right. And I think it takes a lot of humility. I was just, again, looking into some of the writings of some of the, they used to be kind of the young, angry, intelligent atheists a few years ago, you know, Richard Dawkins and some of those guys, right? That they kind of clustered together and they were so confident and they were witty. They had some really interesting arguments against the idea of a creator. But it’s interesting, the older we get, you know, recently, and I’m not gonna say their names, but recently one of those guys began to back away from some of those really strong statements he used to make. A friend of his became a Christian, which was a surprise. And then he said, just last month, he said, you know, I think, and he used to be anti-Christian, Christians are the problem in everything. and he’s kind of shifted and said, you know, maybe if… I don’t believe in a God yet, I don’t think that, but he called himself a cultural Christian. He said, you know, almost everything good that’s happened in the world, you know, schools, hospitals, the idea of the autonomy of a human, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, you know, the idea of freedom to own property, all these things, these are basic Judeo-Christian ethical things, and so the contribution. So he began to shift, and there was a statement there. Hey, we don’t know everything. And I thought, oh, there you go. That’s the beginning of wisdom, is when I realize I don’t know everything. I can’t see very far, and I can’t see very much. And this is what God is telling Job, is, hey, dial it back here, buddy. I understand you’re frustrated, But where were you when I did all these things? I have my own ways.” And here’s the challenge, also in the Life Application Study Bible, on that next page, the bottom of the page you have there, it kind of spells out, our problem is we measure God by some artificial law of fairness. And God’s outside of that law, and we measure him based on what we think is right and fair, and is God good in my definition of what is fair? And we’ve talked about that before, but fairness doesn’t really exist in life. And so instead, the correct view of God is that God is just. He’s the standard by which everything else is measured by. And this is what he’s reminding Job, is, dude, if you don’t understand how the world works, and if you don’t understand how animals work, and you don’t understand how creation worked, you certainly can’t comprehend my moral code. You cannot comprehend it. But God is the standard, not my sense of some fake sense of fairness.

Chris:
Yeah, and when I saw this little graph here, that’s why we love the Life Application Study Bible, because it really lays it out. But the graph, I love how the view, the actual, when you’re looking at it, because it sort of shows in the first block that the law of fairness is sort of the bar, and God’s underneath it, as if what we’re saying is… To be measured by. Yeah, to be measured by it. And then the next graph shows God is the bar, and then underneath it is justice.

Jeff:
Well, God is all, and then justice is inside of God, which is a totally different mindset than fairness being opposite from God, we measure him by it, but rather we measure justice by God. Not God by fairness.

Chris:
Right. We try to figure out justice. That’s right. And what we do is we, just like Joe, we try to figure out justice and we bring it back to who God is.

Jeff:
That’s right. Right.

Chris:
And as opposed to the previous graph where we’re trying to work out God. Right. Right. Because the bar is law of fairness. And so what we’re doing is we’re working out who God, you know, in fact, I think this is an appropriate time to do this. Or maybe I could do it for the next, I’ll do it. I’ll do it for this one. Real quick. I got a text yesterday by somebody who was actually talking about this. So here’s what they, they texted me yesterday. They said, good morning, Chris. We’re still listening to the Bible guys, enjoying it about Joe, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. My problem with the book is this. I wish the conversation between Satan and God was not included. Why? Because it leaves me with some confusion about the relationship between God and Satan. It almost feels like a chess game on humanity. I feel horribly guilty for even saying this. This person says, God doesn’t have to prove anything to Satan. And in real time, he really hurt Job and his wife. And we read it thousands of years later. But imagine in real time, it feels like a sparring match almost. And it makes me wonder about the spiritual realm. And it’s a little confusing for me. I feel guilty for talking like this. So twice, this is what this person says, but God says, come and reason with me. So I am. Why would he talk to Satan and take the challenge when he already knew everything that was going to happen and happen in the pain inflicted to Job? And I also think that God is nothing but love. So, so pure that it can’t even imagine. So he’s, so he’s saying, you know, this person’s saying all these things. So I wrote back and I said, I think you were right on the money with your conclusion, because she actually had a conclusion about God is God, right? I said, the only other part that I think may come into play, and this is a brand new thought, okay? I said, the only thing I think could come into play is God’s, in His sovereignty, He seems to have a lot of things happen to His people to demonstrate His promises and His love to those who come later. So in order for the Bible to inspire billions of people, you have to have humans go through human trials to face all human conditions and then respond to God in order for humans to really identify with it. And even though I don’t know why, I do believe that God has done this with the children of Israel often. For example, He allowed them to suffer in slavery for nearly 400 years. He allowed Joseph to be in the dungeon. I sometimes think those early people paid the price so that God could demonstrate His love and example to humans and record their responses. And He seems to have certain selected people whom He knew He could trust to set the best example for us. The reward in heaven must be some of the highest. For many of them have made the hall of faith in Hebrews chapter 11. These were God’s chosen, these were God’s chosen to set the bar for us. That’s what I believe. So therefore, if that were true, for instance, then the conversation in heaven with God and Satan has a completely different motive and intent that is not apparent. While it seems like it’s a chess game in the verbiage, It’s really God setting the stage for you and for me and for billions of others.

Jeff:
Yeah. Yeah, I think through this whole thing, he proves that Satan was wrong. Satan, your view of all of this is completely wrong. I also see, too, you know, we think that the goal of life is to be as comfortable as possible, right? And God’s goal for life is not my comfort, it’s my character. And Job recognized that in the verse we referenced, was it yesterday, where he said, when I go through the fire, then I’ll come forth as gold, right? When I am tried and purified, then I’ll come forth as gold. And so there are some things in our life that we can never get there without lifting up the heavy weight. I was just mentioning my shoulders are sore because I worked out this morning, it was all shoulders today. Well, my shoulders can’t get stronger without carrying the heavy weight. What I want is to just be comfortable all the time and then have strong shoulders. You can’t do both. And Job was such a godly man, such a good man. He got the devil’s attention. And so God said, you’re wrong, devil. You see everything the wrong way. I can prove it. And I’m going to make Job a better man because of it. So he was making Job a better man. We see, oh, he lost animals and he lost a wife and his riches. And God is saying, I’m making him into a better man. the version of Job after this versus the version of Job before, he was already pretty good, but he’s gonna come out as pure gold too. And so if we can understand that God allows things in our life so we can become more like Jesus, right? God’s goal isn’t the 70 years or 100 years on this earth. God’s goal is eternity. and he’s refining us from here all the way to there. That’s what he’s doing. And so if we’re supposed to be like Jesus, Jesus suffered too, right? And it went through that. So we just have to see it that way. Now, tomorrow, here’s the cliffhanger. Tomorrow, Job has the right answer. And I think it’ll answer some of what that question was yesterday, because Job finally acknowledges it. That’s great.

Chris:
All right. Well, hopefully we will see you then on The Bible Guys.